19 - Lamine Yamal

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Doubt Lamine Yamal will flop unless he gets a serious injury.

He might however have most of his success elsewhere as I'm not sure he in particular will stick around 5+ years if we're clowning around with FFP and struggling to improve the team and lagging behind Real Madrid.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Its not about a prediction contest but identifying weaknesses before they become obvious.

It is pretty obvious and simplistic to say, this player is in bad form so I won't rate him anymore.

There is possibility to see those things coming and to identify trends ahead of time by evaluating the players skill yourself instead of short-term results.

Bad form happens after you achieve something and reach a certain level.

To consider a player top he has to consistently perform at a top level for a period. Neither of our hyped youngsters did that so far.

Pedri can't have bad form when he didn't do anything notable at Barcelona for the level we are talking about. Or Balde. These are promising players that are yet to prove themselves.

Some played for the first time in CL quarters with Barcelona and showed that the level was too high for them in the PSG return leg. And that's where the top class level barely starts. They have a long way to go and plenty of things to do before poor performances can be viewed as bad form.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Ah, if Vinicius, or Bellingham, or Foden, or another class player plays like shit next season... then yes, that's bad form. Because Vinicius can obviously play much better. And for another reason than his quality he is not presently producing at the expected level.

But if you never did it... you are not good enough. This is the case for even our best players. The ones that showed they are class are in different stages of age related decline.
 

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Pedri's issues are related to him being physically unable to compete in high intensity games these days. It's impossible to carry a player like that unless that player is like Messi or CR7 and then you need a different setup built around them to support that and Pedri is not that guy.

Unless those issues are somehow solved his ceiling might be Isco at Real Betis. Technically he's still really, really good.

As for Gavi then I have my concerns with him as well, but discussed that a million times.
 

Porque

Senior Member
Pedri is also, perhaps falsely, rated highly because he burst onto the scene and then had an excellent EuroCopa for Spain that narrowly missed out on the final by penalties.

Spains best player, but then International football is a step slower and less physical, which helped Pedri look great. But much like the Arthur fallacy versus Tottenham, you go back and watch, and it is alot of simple actions, or a ton of time without pressure on the ball which you don't get in the big club fixtures.

 

ajnotkeith

Senior Member
Bad form happens after you achieve something and reach a certain level.

To consider a player top he has to consistently perform at a top level for a period. Neither of our hyped youngsters did that so far.

Pedri can't have bad form when he didn't do anything notable at Barcelona for the level we are talking about. Or Balde. These are promising players that are yet to prove themselves.

Some played for the first time in CL quarters with Barcelona and showed that the level was too high for them in the PSG return leg. And that's where the top class level barely starts. They have a long way to go and plenty of things to do before poor performances can be viewed as bad form.
You are mixing up ability and achievement. They're not the same thing.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Pedri is also, perhaps falsely, rated highly because he burst onto the scene and then had an excellent EuroCopa for Spain that narrowly missed out on the final by penalties.

Spains best player, but then International football is a step slower and less physical, which helped Pedri look great. But much like the Arthur fallacy versus Tottenham, you go back and watch, and it is alot of simple actions, or a ton of time without pressure on the ball which you don't get in the big club fixtures.


Good post. Also, that Euro was right at the end of the pandemic, so the intensity was even lower.
 

Messi983

Senior Member
Has already played 49 games this season. Next Pedri coming...

My commentator also mentioned that he broke Bojan's record (48) for games played for U18 players.

Checking now, Bojan "only" played 2.200 minutes in 2007/08, Yamal is already at 2.800. Can also add 300 minutes for NT to that and possibly another 400-500 or so in Euros. Too much for a 16 yo kid imo.
 
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Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
He should've been subbed off for Roque with Ferran moving to RW. We have a game in just a couple of days and Lamine is probably starting that one as well.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Pedri is also, perhaps falsely, rated highly because he burst onto the scene and then had an excellent EuroCopa for Spain that narrowly missed out on the final by penalties.

Spains best player, but then International football is a step slower and less physical, which helped Pedri look great. But much like the Arthur fallacy versus Tottenham, you go back and watch, and it is alot of simple actions, or a ton of time without pressure on the ball which you don't get in the big club fixtures.

I am from Croatia, so in theory, I should defend competitions as WC and Euros, but majority of people have probably figured out till now that the quality of football is way lower on the NT tournaments.

Here are some reasons:
1. players play in their clubs for 9-10 months per season and build a lot of chemistry.

In the NT team, there is no such chemistry.
You come, you train for 2 weeks and the bigger emphasis is on momentum, magical moment, lucky goal or motivation than on deep tactics and team's automatism actions and chemistry.

2. in clubs, players are usually united, while in NT teams in some cases, players hate eachother like in Spain (Barca vs Real), England (5-6 big teams), or France/Netherlands due to political and racial problems.

In some other countries though, like Croatia, Brazil, Argentina = players are more united and share a higher level of love towards their country. It often happens in countries who were recently in some wars (Croatia, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine, Kosovo) or with poorer/politically neglected countries, who see World cups as some sort of: "we'll show to the world that our small country exist".
Or in deeply religious countries where people/players are more united.

On the other hand, in some bigger/richer/politically more important countries like England, that motivation to "show to the world that you exist" is way smaller.

3. further, majority of NT tournaments are played after the long season, so players from biggest clubs are often dead tired, mentally drained or injured.
So, again, Euros or WC are the perfect opportunity for some benchwarmers to give 150% and prove themselves or for Pedris, Gavis and Yamal to shine, since the quality is way weaker, there is less team's chemistry, top players are dead tired, and youngsters want to prove themselves (to fans, clubs, sponsors, to potential girlfriends).

So, for example, my country, Croatia, even though we are good, imo we are not THAT good as our results suggest.
Our players are united due to a war in Croatia in the early 90s.
Further, the team is filled with benchwarmers in top clubs like Kovacic, Mandzukic, Lovren, Rakitic.
Who, even though they are good, usually didn't play 55 matches for 90 minutes.
So, they had more energy than English or German starters.
Add some national motivation and "we'll show the world who we are" attitude = and you often get overachieving from smaller/poorer/motivated countries usually filled with benchwarmes + a few top players + a few youngsters playing at 150% to get the dream contract + attract new supermodels.

So, imo, it is hard to judge young players on their NT displays. The quality is poorer, they are usually more rested than starters and have way higher motivation/more to prove.

So, their displays are often "overachieving" and way better than they actually are.

The same happens on a club level when a youngster plays at 150% in his rookie season or two, until his motivation drops and the opponents figure out his main 2-3 tricks.
The same happened with Pedri, Gavi, Fati in their rookie seasons.
Once when they stopped playing at 150%, their form dropped a lot.

Sadly, a huge part of Lamal's form could be a part of that "teenage boost motivation".
If he'll continue to play at the same level (or even improve) for the next 4-5 seasons = then he is consistent.

If he'll play good in his rookie 1-2 seasons and later drops his level = then that wasn't his true level but a mix of teenage motivation, being 100% fit and the opponents not taking him seriously in the early seasons.
 
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