28 - Marc Bernal

[Nello]

Unless you are a pogo stick, mechanically you need both Achilles tendons- irrespective of which foot you plant

Moreover there are 400 fold more ACL tears than rupture of Achilles in football- in hoops and NFL, tennis etc different story

There are many factors that influence recovery and in Bernal’s case it is more severe injury. Hopefully he’ll recover without long term complications

said I’d rather tear both ACLs than one Achilles. Tear, not permanently lose it.

 

[FCBarca]

said I’d rather tear both ACLs than one Achilles. Tear, not permanently lose it.

If I’m a footballer I’m opting for latter

Definitely ACL repair over using patellar or cadaver grafts in a rupture but that’s implicit

Of course Ansu’s meniscus was badly torn and combination of going AMA and nature of injury, his situation worsened. Now, regardless of what he does going forward his career trajectory is on a different course than had he only had ACL tear

 

[Nello]

If I’m a footballer I’m opting for latter

Definitely ACL repair over using patellar or cadaver grafts in a rupture but that’s implicit

Of course Ansu’s meniscus was badly torn and combination of going AMA and nature of injury, his situation worsened. Now, regardless of what he does going forward his career trajectory is on a different course than had he only had ACL tear

All ACL surgeries on athletes use either an allo(donor)- or autograft. Alternative is a conservative repair, which there is growing evidence for, with many cases of the ACL healing with a crossbrace protocol or attaching to the PCL which can also give some stability. Not sure what your reffering to regarding a repair without a graft.

Still have yet to meet a surgeon or physio working within this field that would prefer to tear an achilles over an ACL. Footballer or not, a full achilles tear, both conservatively and surgically treated will leave you with persistent deficits that can't be overcome with any amount of training.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

Low bar to you, High bar for me as he is 17 years old, and was carrying our asses for the few games.
You should install Wifi and cellular, cuz for sure going analog didn't let your brain develop to see the talent a 17 year old.

Not surprised by someone impressed with "audiophile" gear targeted to people with more money than actual audiophile knowledge.

 

[FCBarca]

All ACL surgeries on athletes use either an allo(donor)- or autograft. Alternative is a conservative repair, which there is growing evidence for, with many cases of the ACL healing with a crossbrace protocol or attaching to the PCL which can also give some stability. Not sure what your reffering to regarding a repair without a graft.

Still have yet to meet a surgeon or physio working within this field that would prefer to tear an achilles over an ACL. Footballer or not, a full achilles tear, both conservatively and surgically treated will leave you with persistent deficits that can't be overcome with any amount of training.

Guess that's why you see barely any achilles injuries in world football, ACL & meniscus tears are the killers in football - but you'd prefer it. I'd prefer something that rarely happens than something comparatively more common that can derail a career - Ansu would be killing it if it were his achilles and not his lateral meniscus being obliterated

 

[Nello]

Guess that's why you see barely any achilles injuries in world football, ACL & meniscus tears are the killers in football - but you'd prefer it. I'd prefer something that rarely happens than something comparatively more common that can derail a career - Ansu would be killing it if it were his achilles and not his lateral meniscus being obliterated

What does the incidence of an injury matter? Just because its more rare, doesnt mean its less severe.

The ACL is a ligament. After a surgery, your muscles have the same prerequisites to reach the same level as before the injury.

If you tear your Achilles, the tendon will change permanently. It wont transfer energy aswell as before, and it will elongate and the muscle will get shorter and thinner. It wont be able to produce as much force as before, especially the end range of plantar flexion with the knee bent (the push off). On average people lose 10-30% of plantar flexion strength and endurance. This will affect your speed, jumping ability etc massively.

All I’m saying is a Achilles injury will affect the athletic ability for a footballer much more than an ACL tear. Nothing more.

Yes its rare, doesnt change its severity.

Why do you think Ansu would be killing it had he torn his Achilles? What do you base this on? Are you a doctor working with sports injuries, physio, physical trainer or whats up exactly

 

[Windhook]

Anterior Cruciate Ligament (ACL) Tears

Treatment of ACL Tears​

The treatment of ACL tears is highly individualized. After the ACL tears, it has a very poor blood supply and the ability for the ligament to heal is limited. Some patients will require surgery while others can be treated with non-surgical methods including bracing and knee rehabilitation. The decision for treatment should be a discussion between the surgeon and patient examining all the injuries that have occurred, the demands of the patient, and athletic and work requirements. In a general sense, patients who wish to remain highly athletic, have torn cartilage, or are not willing to change their active lifestyle will be candidates for surgery.

Operative Treatment “Surgery” for ACL Tears​

Almost all active patients and athletes will require surgery to repair the torn ACL. As mentioned before, the ACL has limited ability to heal and simply sewing the torn ends will not be successful. Modern ACL surgery requires the use of another tendon called a ‘graft’ to be used to substitute for the torn ACL.

These grafts are inserted into the knee with the use of an arthroscope. The ‘scope’ is a very small lens that placed into the knee joint and is connected to a camera and monitor so the surgeon can examine and operate on the knee with less invasive techniques.

There's more in the article about recovery after surgery.

 

[FCBarca]

What does the incidence of an injury matter? Just because its more rare, doesnt mean its less severe.

The ACL is a ligament. After a surgery, your muscles have the same prerequisites to reach the same level as before the injury.

If you tear your Achilles, the tendon will change permanently. It wont transfer energy aswell as before, and it will elongate and the muscle will get shorter and thinner. It wont be able to produce as much force as before, especially the end range of plantar flexion with the knee bent (the push off). On average people lose 10-30% of plantar flexion strength and endurance. This will affect your speed, jumping ability etc massively.

All I’m saying is a Achilles injury will affect the athletic ability for a footballer much more than an ACL tear. Nothing more.

Yes its rare, doesnt change its severity.

Why do you think Ansu would be killing it had he torn his Achilles? What do you base this on? Are you a doctor working with sports injuries, physio, physical trainer or whats up exactly

ACL and achilles are made up of the same connective tissue but are avascular, menisci are vascular - you should know this. It's a big reason why the lateral (particularly the lateral meniscus tears) are complicated for repair & recovery. Ligament/tendon repair are comparatively quite straight forward

There is no evidence whatsoever to support your theory that achilles injuries impact footballers worse than ACL or meniscus tears, none - you're trying to spin a narrative to suit your agenda

 

[Nello]

ACL and achilles are made up of the same connective tissue but are avascular, menisci are vascular - you should know this. It's a big reason why the lateral (particularly the lateral meniscus tears) are complicated for repair & recovery. Ligament/tendon repair are comparatively quite straight forward

There is no evidence whatsoever to support your theory that achilles injuries impact footballers worse than ACL or meniscus tears, none - you're trying to spin a narrative to suit your agenda

Yes true both ligaments and tendons are made up of connective tissue and thats about all you’ve said so far that’s true and only thing they have in common.
If this is your only response to the simple differences I’ve pointed out about tendon and ligament injuries, there is no reason to go further into this discussion and go into more detail. Still haven’t answered if you have any sort of experience with this or medical background.

Never brought up meniscus injuries, but they come in many different sizes and shapes, and different parts of the menisci have different amounts of vascularisation. So hard to generalize how much a meniscus tear affect someone. Also have less experience rehabbing patients with meniscus tears, seen more ACL and Achilles patients so I’ve stuck to commenting on that.

 

[FCBarca]

@Nello Take the L, you‘re on some obsession about achilles injuries when you’ve missed the context from the beginning which suggests even your comprehension needs some work along with the webmd expertise

 

[draconifire]

Not surprised by someone impressed with "audiophile" gear targeted to people with more money than actual audiophile knowledge.

hmm. your reply didn't generate a notification for me. Curious.

As for your comment. Get down from your high horse, the world is far brighter than all the doom you have been watching/reading.

 

[Nello]

@Nello Take the L, you‘re on some obsession about achilles injuries when you’ve missed the context from the beginning which suggests even your comprehension needs some work along with the webmd expertise

Look, not trying to pretend I'm a doctor or whatever. I'm just a 5th semester PT student who've interned at the orthopaedic department of a Hospital in Copenhagen where I got to see Achilles and ACL surgeries and rehab the patients afterwards. So not a webmd nor a real one, just a student who's taken an interest to serious sport injuries.

You're the one talking nonsense talking about ACL "repair" without a graft??? You can be absolutely sure an autograft taken from either the hamstrings or Patella tendon/ligament has been used for both Bernal and Gavi's surgeries. And not answering any of the points I've brought up about the tendon-muscle unit in the triceps surae permanently changing after an Achilles injury.
Both injuries absolutely fecking sucks, but they're vastly different even tho both the ACL and Achilles are made up of connective tissue.

Anyways, hope Bernal recovers well and that the tear in his meniscus wasn't too bad. Gotta feel for the kid getting such a shitty injury right when he's about to break through and realize his childhood dream.

 

[Iniesta Ultra]

hmm. your reply didn't generate a notification for me. Curious.

As for your comment. Get down from your high horse, the world is far brighter than all the doom you have been watching/reading.

Lmao I don't wish actual reality on anyone nor is it a high horse or privilege to face full depth of reality.

I'm a top collector and archivist of historical music and have some of the most advanced martial knowledge a subset of applying harmonic power in life, pursuing excellence is the antidote to despair.