7 - Ferran Torres

serghei

Senior Member
Do we need know that Ferran Torres wants to leave City? Just rumors so far, right? Also, how much are we will be paying him vs. his current salary at City, his perceived chances/minutes here vs. at City are all factors driven his rumored decision to come here, it is not as simple as City lacking whatever we have to retain players. It is quite arrogant to believe that we or some other clubs have a special pull that certain other clubs don't, regardless of everything.

And increasingly, for all clubs, including us, money matters. Case in point Ilaix and soon, Dembele, particularly if he ditches us to join Newcastle.

70m for Ferran Torres??! We should keep our money.

I think it could be more of a case of homesick. Jesus Navas was the same. Some Spanish players are best suited to play at the big boys in Spain.

Barca right now is a tempting proposition. Not for world-class 26-28 years old players looking to win big now in the present, but for 21-23 talents who are looking to settle at a big club. We're basically like a Dortmund but with an actual endgame included.

I can't remember a single moment in the last 10-12 years where a top young player has as many chances to start at an elite club like Barcelona. For those who grew up watching Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and had role models in them, now it's the time to come and book your place in the team.

It won't be 70m. 50m is decent for both sides.

Money matters, but Ilaix and Dembele are probably dumb players. Making it big at Barca is a sure bet to get filthy rich in the long run. This club pays for the past like no other. Look at Roberto. One big moment in all of his career, and won tens of millions from that.
 
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
I think it could be more of a case of homesick. Jesus Navas was the same. Some Spanish players are best suited to play at the big boys in Spain.

Barca right now is a tempting proposition. Not for world-class 26-28 years old players looking to win big now in the present, but for 21-23 talents who are looking to settle at a big club. I can't remember a single moment where a top young player has chances to start at an elite club. For those who grew up watching Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and had role models like these, now it's the time to come.

For Spanish players (especially those who struggle to speak English) that could very well be true, who wants to live in rainy, drab and boring Manchester when you can live in the wonderful, colorful and great city like Barcelona.

On your second point, I wholeheartedly agree, I previously said that we were in a great position for the newer generation of star players to come to occupy the limelight and lead us in the post-Messi era, and I think you were the one who said "not so fast mister", reason being great players might think our chances of getting our hands on any silveware are not that great and therefore might not want to come. :p I suppose both are true.
 

serghei

Senior Member
For Spanish players (especially those who struggle to speak English) that could very well be true, who wants to live in rainy, drab and boring Manchester when you can live in the wonderful, colorful and great city like Barcelona.

On your second point, I wholeheartedly agree, I previously said that we were in a great position for the newer generation of star players to come to occupy the limelight and lead us in the post-Messi era, and I think you were the one who said "not so fast mister", reason being great players might think our chances of getting our hands on any silveware are not that great and therefore might not want to come. :p I suppose both are true.

Yea, players who need to max out in the next 2-3 seasons won't come. For example, say Salah won't extend with Liverpool. He'd be an idiot to sign for us, even though he would slot in incredibly well. We just can't form a world-class team soon enough to benefit from a player like Salah. And world-class mature players know this. They would want better teams that give them chances for the big titles from the get-go. Not maybes, but right now.

But younger class players (just make sure we avoid dreamy kids like Dembele and go for athleticism, speed, and grit) who we can get maybe cheaper (that is why we should be all in for Adeyemi if he's the real deal) would have a unique opportunity to play at Barcelona, a club that in the past it would've been impossible to have a shot at.

Barca is the package, except two things atm: not very rich and not a good enough team to challenge for the really big titles (I would not call current La Liga a really big one). Those 2 make us unattractive for a) world class players wanting instant impact and a shot at CL titles, b) overpriced young stars who have big shot managers looking to hit the motherload in terms of money.

But make us very interesting for c) reasonably priced top young players looking to be the next Salah, Mane etc. They can't be reasonably priced if they already play for a super rich team. Meaning whatever talent is on the table from smaller teams, especially with buyouts involved, we need to be all over that.
 
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Yea, players who need to max out in the next 2-3 seasons won't come. For example, say Salah won't extend with Liverpool. He'd be an idiot to sign for us, even though he would slot in incredibly well. We just can't form a world-class team soon enough to benefit from a player like Salah. And world-class mature players know this. They would want better teams that give them chances for the big titles from the get-go. Not maybes, but right now.

But younger class players (just make sure we avoid dreamy kids like Dembele and go for athleticism, speed, and grit) who we can get maybe cheaper (that is why we should be all in for Adeyemi if he's the real deal) would have a unique opportunity to play at Barcelona, a club that in the past it would've been impossible to have a shot at.

Barca is the package, except two things atm: not very rich and not a good enough team to challenge for the really big titles (I would not call current La Liga a really big one). Those 2 make us unattractive for a) world class players wanting instant impact and a shot at CL titles, b) overpriced young stars who have big shot managers looking to hit the motherload in terms of money.

But make us very interesting for c) reasonably priced top young players looking to be the next Salah, Mane etc.

That's the problem, in the past we had everything, (1) fame, (2) great chances to win silverware and (3) money (best wages in the industry) but now the last two are pretty much gone for a while and players we want such as Haaland and even Adeyemi fall into either category (a) or (b) but not (c). If we believe those rumors, we are facing competition to retain our own players such as Araujo and Gavi, precisely because of the lack of (2) and (3).

We are not Dortmund and there are pros and cons to that. Players join Dortmund because of the chances to play and shine to have that visibility before they take another step up to join a bigger club, few non-German players joined them with the goal to stay there for long-term. If we are competing with Dortmund on players falling into category (c), they know they won't leave easily and the only step might a downward step (can't go to Madrid from here and probably don't go to elite EPL clubs, judging from our transfer history) so they might be hesitant to join us. And with our precarious financial situation, we might not even match what Dortmund pays (that is what was reported on Adeyemi, that Dortmund offers him more attractive wages than us).

For short-term goals such as qualifying for the CL we will need more experienced and more established players. For long-term goals of rebuilding ourselves and bringing ourselves back to being title contenders in Spain and Europe then we should be looking at those players that Dortmund is scouting and targeting, yes. The only problem is, given our history, selling clubs will likely charge us more than they would have charged Dortmund.
 
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Mateka

New member
Should he sign for Barca. What would be the release clause, sell on price that Barca would set?
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Whatever he'd agree. If you assume he's passionate about Barca he won't give a shit if it's at 1B.

This news is all well and nice but it comes out on the back of Dembele contract negotiations and is not independent from it for sure. I don't think Barca have money now and may be difficult to close deal until they know they will in summer.
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
Utter nonsense.

Frankly, he is right. The dream of playing for City is geographically restricted to lads who grew up in Manchester like Foden. At best, just England. At least in my part of the world, very few kids support Man City.
 

serghei

Senior Member
That's the problem, in the past we had everything, (1) fame, (2) great chances to win silverware and (3) money (best wages in the industry) but now the last two are pretty much gone for a while and players we want such as Haaland and even Adeyemi fall into either category (a) or (b) but not (c). If we believe those rumors, we are facing competition to retain our own players such as Araujo and Gavi, precisely because of the lack of (2) and (3).

We are not Dortmund and there are pros and cons to that. Players join Dortmund because of the chances to play and shine to have that visibility before they take another step up to join a bigger club, few non-German players joined them with the goal to stay there for long-term. If we are competing with Dortmund on players falling into category (c), they know they won't leave easily and the only step might a downward step (can't go to Madrid from here and probably don't go to elite EPL clubs, judging from our transfer history) so they might be hesitant to join us. And with our precarious financial situation, we might not even match what Dortmund pays (that is what was reported on Adeyemi, that Dortmund offers him more attractive wages than us).

For short-term goals such as qualifying for the CL we will need more experienced and more established players. For long-term goals of rebuilding ourselves and bringing ourselves back to being title contenders in Spain and Europe then we should be looking at those players that Dortmund is scouting and targeting, yes. The only problem is, given our history, selling clubs will likely charge us more than they would have charged Dortmund.

Pedri and Fati extended, so will Gavi and Nico. And even Araujo I am pretty confident about. If we start losing La Masia talents to those rich sugar daddy clubs from EPL then that will be very bad news, but so far hasn't happened to be fair.

Adeyemi is not premier talent like Mbappe that will play in any club from day one, this is why he fancies Dortmund as a move. But a Barca that can give you the same conditions to play like Dortmund is a step up. Bayern, City, Liverpool, are all stacked upfront, so they won't offer him the same opportunities.

So if Bayern and City and Liverpool get him, will he play in front of Salah, Mane, Bernardo, Jota, Gnabri, Sane etc very soon? No. At Barcelona, he will, because his direct competition is about to go for free, and the next in line are some raw kids.

We are similar to the position of Liverpool in 2016-2017. Huge club with a new promising project, young stars, and plenty of room to play in. In a way, it's not that bad that we can't throw huge money to sign players, because we will avoid money-whore players, we will put more effort into scouting rather than being lazy and mostly following the big names, and will have bigger chances to get guys who really prioritize their careers rather than getting rich very fast (you still get rich if you prioritize your career and winning titles mind you).

This means we'll not be very attractive for Galactico players for a good while. But we will be able to land the same profile of players that Liverpool signed in 2016, 2017. Liverpool signed most of their core players from which type of clubs? Southampton, AS Roma, Wolverhampton, Schalke, Arsenal, Monaco, etc.

See the pattern? Not a single signing from a club in direct competition with them. Didn't chase players from Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, etc, because they knew players who make CL semis in the present, won't give up that position and that money for a relatively incipient project. On the contrary, they lost players like Suarez and Coutinho to these teams.

The point is, hungry quality players from lower-level clubs will jump at the chance to take the next step and Barca can be a top destination these days. One of the few tier 1 clubs that is not very stacked upfront. A lot will also depend on Xavi to get us playing well and start sending the message, that the buffoonery is done with and we're on the right track to come back.
 
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wisconsincule

Senior Member
Pedri and Fati extended, so will Gavi and Nico. And even Araujo I am pretty confident about. If we start losing La Masia talents to those rich sugar daddy clubs from EPL then that will be very bad news, but so far hasn't happened to be fair.

Adeyemi is not premier talent like Mbappe that will play in any club from day one, this is why he fancies Dortmund as a move. But a Barca that can give you the same conditions to play like Dortmund is a step up. Bayern, City, Liverpool, are all stacked upfront, so they won't offer him the same opportunities.

So if Bayern and City and Liverpool get him, will he play in front of Salah, Mane, Bernardo, Jota, Gnabri, Sane etc very soon? No. At Barcelona, he will.

We are similar to the position of Liverpool in 2016-2017. Huge club with a new promising project, young stars, and plenty of room to play in. In a way, it's not that bad that we can't throw huge money to sign players, because we will avoid money-whore players, we will put more effort into scouting rather than being lazy and mostly following the big names, and will have bigger chances to get guys who really prioritize their careers rather than getting rich very fast (you still get rich if you prioritize your career and winning titles mind you).

This means we'll not be very attractive for Galactico players for a good while. But we will be able to land the same profile of players that Liverpool signed in 2016, 2017. Liverpool signed most of their core players from which type of clubs? Southampton, AS Roma, Wolverhampton, Schalke, Arsenal, Monaco, etc.

See the pattern? Not a single signing from a club in direct competition with them. Didn't chase players from Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, etc, because they knew players who make CL semis in the present, won't give up that position and that money for a relatively incipient project. On the contrary, they lost players like Suarez and Coutinho to these teams.

The point is, hungry quality players from lower-level clubs will jump at the chance to take the next step and Barca can be a top destination these days. One of the few tier 1 clubs that is not very stacked up front.

Agree. We are in a position where young prospects don’t have to sit behind Neymar, Suarez, Griezmann or Messi.

They can come in and be the main man. Even though we may be in the Europa League this season that’s not going to deter people from coming here.

I’m quite excited to see where we go from here.
 

Windhook

Well-known member
This means we'll not be very attractive for Galactico players for a good while. But we will be able to land the same profile of players that Liverpool signed in 2016, 2017. Liverpool signed most of their core players from which type of clubs? Southampton, AS Roma, Wolverhampton, Schalke, Arsenal, Monaco, etc.

I share your view on things. One difference though - Liverpool didn't struggle financially during the period you mentioned and a season later they cashed in 80m for Van Dijk, a defender, who changed their fortunes.
 

El Gato

Villarato!
Attractiveness is a function of how well you play. If half your La Masia kids turn out good and play well under Xavi, shouldn't be an issue to convince Haaland type player.
Would have been far worse if none of these kids popped up like they have in last year or so, but you got your ass saved a bit so thank whoever nurtured their growth in last 2-4 years.

Liverpool been signing from Southampton but not for massive money and Van Dijk + Mane were gambles in own right.
They signed nobody from Schalke, Kabak was a loan
Tsimikas came from Greece

Literally not huge teams and you could do same with smart investments in Serie A, Germany, Portugal

serghei with a barrage of arguments that do not connect and form a narrative as usual
 
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KingLeo10

Senior Member
Utter nonsense.

:lol::lol: Don't get so triggered.

You still haven't fielded a Ballon D'Or winning player, let alone grown one.

You are in a city with a historic club - United.

You financially doped your way to success - yes the historic clubs enjoyed financial monopoly as well at various points but it was MORE earned.

Your greatest ever manager is synonymous with Barcelona and his side was one of the greatest in history. Nothing he can do at City will top that.
 

Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Attractiveness is a function of how well you play. If half your La Masia kids turn out good and play well under Xavi, shouldn't be an issue to convince Haaland type player.
Would have been far worse if none of these kids popped up like they have in last year or so, but you got your ass saved a bit so thank whoever nurtured their growth in last 2-4 years.

Liverpool been signing from Southampton but not for massive money and Van Dijk + Mane were gambles in own right.
They signed nobody from Schalke, Kabak was a loan
Tsimikas came from Greece

Literally not huge teams and you could do same with smart investments in Serie A, Germany, Portugal

serghei with a barrage of arguments that do not connect and form a narrative as usual

Playing well is important but not necessarily necessary, or not the most important factor to attract players. Rayo Vallacano played well under Paco Jimez but didn't go anywhere either. Results, silverware or the potential of it, money all trump playing well when it comes to attracting players, in my opinion.
 

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