M
MessiCam
Guest
Nah. He is quick enough I feel.
There is a very big difference playing wide in a 4-4-2 and as wing in a 4-3-3. They should not be confused.
7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1
- Thread starter AnfieldEd
- Start date
Nah. He is quick enough I feel.
There is a very big difference playing wide in a 4-4-2 and as wing in a 4-3-3. They should not be confused.
ATLBarcaFan
Senior Member
This is what im saying all the time. Iniesta was only playing on the wing in a 4-3-3. Now hes put on the wing in a 4-4-2.
And in my opinion both, coutinho and iniesta, dont really fit in that position. Both are uncomfortable there.
Iniesta started well vs AM but the matches before he was struggeling and not really in the game. Same with cou and sometimes u get the feeling he doesnt really now how to behave there.
In a 4-3-3 coutinho could be more offensive and iniesta as a cm more in the centre where hes stronger and more involved.
Just my opinion when watching the last games.
The only player the 4-4-2 suits is Suarez, and his form isn’t good enough to justify playing that system for him.
Messi, Dembele, Iniesta, Coutinho, the full backs all perform better in a 4-3-3.
But moving to a 4-3-3 with the current personnel would probably mean playing Suarez as a LWF. He used to play that position well at Ajax, but he probably isn’t capable now. But given his current form, I’d sacrifice not playing Suarez in his best position if it meant playing Messi as a false 9, Dembele as a RWF, and Iniesta/Coutinho in the three.
I think it’d suit the full backs better too.
Probably too expansive for Valverde though.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
It is our 44s,although with Suarez and Messi in the team playing centrally we will never play with a symmetrical formation and you could read it different ways, 442,433, or 4231
M
MessiCam
Guest
Girona was definitely a 4-3-3. You just had to look at Suarez positioning... He was always in the left half space.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
You see, you think it was 433, for me it looked way more of 4231 actually. Which is why I think the way EV plays the debate about formation will always be opaque
Neeraj
Senior Member
When we're playing 442, one of the main issues is the lack of bodies in the part of the pitch just ahead of the center circle.
With the 2 wing backs holding wide positions and the 2 wide midfielders ahead of them on the wings, Busi/Rakitic generally slot into the CB slot to get the ball moving, with the other one on the center circle to transition play. In this setup, Suarez is obviously upfront, and Messi drifts wherever as he sees fit. When I watch our games, I can see there's a clear lack of bodies in that central midfield because of this shape, due to which the most obvious pass generally goes sideways to Roberto / Alba, who have to initiate attacks with 1-2's with the winger or the central midfielder.
For a team that's parking the bus, attacks initiated this way are easy to defend because the play very rarely continues down the flank, and more often than not involves a cut back. This is the main reason, IMO, why chances are so hard to come by, and the reason why we see Messi dropping into that centre circle position.
Considering that Roberto doesn't provide THAT much in attack, let's be honest he isn't a Marcelo or Lahm, why not keep the full backs tucked in and play a 4-3-3?
If Roberto's starting position was tucked in and defensive, we could have triangles created between the full back, man on the centre circle and the attacker on either flank, with Messi providing the overload. This just seems to make a lot of sense especially considering our personnel. I can see why you'd want to play this 442 that Valverde does, which relies SO HEAVILY on our full backs (which is weird, because that's not even our strength), if you had Marcelo/Kimmich type players on there. As good as Alba is, he never really gets past players and his one move (although a very useful one so far) is the cutback to Messi.
It's never going to happen, because people will cry 'wing play is Barca's style, DNA, etc.". But considering that the full back position is one of our weaker ones on the pitch, it's very surprising to see how much of our attacking play is channelled through that position.
With the 2 wing backs holding wide positions and the 2 wide midfielders ahead of them on the wings, Busi/Rakitic generally slot into the CB slot to get the ball moving, with the other one on the center circle to transition play. In this setup, Suarez is obviously upfront, and Messi drifts wherever as he sees fit. When I watch our games, I can see there's a clear lack of bodies in that central midfield because of this shape, due to which the most obvious pass generally goes sideways to Roberto / Alba, who have to initiate attacks with 1-2's with the winger or the central midfielder.
For a team that's parking the bus, attacks initiated this way are easy to defend because the play very rarely continues down the flank, and more often than not involves a cut back. This is the main reason, IMO, why chances are so hard to come by, and the reason why we see Messi dropping into that centre circle position.
Considering that Roberto doesn't provide THAT much in attack, let's be honest he isn't a Marcelo or Lahm, why not keep the full backs tucked in and play a 4-3-3?
If Roberto's starting position was tucked in and defensive, we could have triangles created between the full back, man on the centre circle and the attacker on either flank, with Messi providing the overload. This just seems to make a lot of sense especially considering our personnel. I can see why you'd want to play this 442 that Valverde does, which relies SO HEAVILY on our full backs (which is weird, because that's not even our strength), if you had Marcelo/Kimmich type players on there. As good as Alba is, he never really gets past players and his one move (although a very useful one so far) is the cutback to Messi.
It's never going to happen, because people will cry 'wing play is Barca's style, DNA, etc.". But considering that the full back position is one of our weaker ones on the pitch, it's very surprising to see how much of our attacking play is channelled through that position.
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I described before where i see the difference. Plus 442 with double 6 is more defensive.
Yet u come with ur glorious onliner(or two) and without any arguments. ...
M
MessiCam
Guest
Why would Suárez play in the half space, Messi in the middle and Dembélé in the half space in a 4-2-3-1?
With the current Dembélé playing him anywhere near midfield is not the greatest idea.
That the system looked like a 4-2-3-1 is due to Coutinho’s ill discipline in midfield.
What you describe are problems typical of any double pivot. The best system for possession based midfield domination is without a doubt the 4-3-3.
But Valverde doesn’t play that way... He wants 2 pivots for his defensive tendencies even if it means giving up midfield domination which has been our bread and butter for decades. To maintain some semblance of control he even has Messi playing in midfield. I find it disgusting to be honest... No Barcelona team is supposed to play this way and Messi deserves better after all these years. He’s basically playing in a role similar to which he does for Argentina.
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I agree that the right formation is urs
--------------bosquets-----------------
-------rakitic----------coutinho--------
---messi---------------------dembele
----------------suarez------------------
FCBfan22
Senior Member
Again, this screams Roberto exposed. It might work with Roberto CM and Semedo RB, but not with Rakitić.
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