7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1

[Respekt_III]

Eh. Tadic is not faster nor stronger (he is taller) nor more durable. Tadic has weaker finishing and weaker long shots. He has a bit better passing, i think. That s it. Yet he has 26 goals and 15 assists so far this season and as far as i know has never played as a striker.

The fact is, Tadic is a player of similar profile to Coutinho. Just not as good and that s why i mentioned this, or perhaps you feel that if you switch Coutinho for Tadic, Cou would be less effective?

I could understand some sort of tactical obstacle i m not seeing right now. Ajax does play counter attack, high pressing game, which is different from Barca stile. Having him play as a deep fw and making runs from deep would play to his strengths.

Suarez needs to be rested. Having him play all games is suicidal, while our 100+ mil player sits on the bench. I don t see how trying some new tactical options in lesser la liga games is a problem.

What was the point of purchasing a 160m player to only be able to effectively use him against mediocre opponents? because they're the only opponents i see this effectively working against at best.

I find tadic to be more athletic than Coutinho, however I do concede that Coutinho has a much better skill set (I'd be down right delusional otherwise). We can't really compare how well Tadic is doing as he plays in a much inferior league against inferior opposition, Having a great game against (lets be honest a poor) R.Madrid isn't an indicator that it will we work for us especially considering our personnel.

I don't believe Coutinho has the discipline, physicality, work rate and stamina to make it work with our squad (this is obviously ignoring the issue of Valverde entirely). Coutinho will have to drop into midfield and track midfield runners, he will also need to press effectively when out of possession. He doesn't have the speed or physicality to help us break on counters either. We genuinely cant afford him to not fulfill any of these duties as we will effectively have 2-3 people walking around not helping when out of possession. Couple that with the fact that we currently have a guaranteed midfield of Busi/Raki/someone, we would be incredibly slow in the middle of the park with very little to no movement.

This is of course ignoring the fact that in that position Coutinho will be occupying the same space Messi operates in. Considering the disparity in their talent Messi should not be making concessions to help fit Coutinho in, if anything it should be Coutinho making concessions to ensure he fits in with the squad.

As for Suarez, i totally agree he needs to be rested but we should of got a proper backup rather than KPB....

edit: forgot to ask what formation/players would you play?

suarez-coutinho/Messi-dembele/malcom
-------messi/coutinho
arthur/raki-busquets
alba-lenglet/umtiti-pique-semedo/roberto

or

dembele-coutinho-messi
arthur-raki-busquets
alba-lenglet/umtiti-pique-semedo/roberto

I just don't see that being effective against better teams

 

[Judoman]

What was the point of purchasing a 160m player to only be able to effectively use him against mediocre opponents? because they're the only opponents i see this effectively working against at best.

.

You try new options in lesser games, yes? Yes.

I find tadic to be more athletic than Coutinho, however I do concede that Coutinho has a much better skill set (I'd be down right delusional otherwise). We can't really compare how well Tadic is doing as he plays in a much inferior league against inferior opposition, Having a great game against (lets be honest a poor) R.Madrid isn't an indicator that it will we work for us especially considering our personnel.

Tadic is NOT more athletic. He is only taller. He does play in weaker league, but he has 6 goals and 3 assists in CL so far. So it can t be said he is doing this only in Dutch league.

I don't believe Coutinho has the discipline, physicality, work rate and stamina to make it work with our squad (this is obviously ignoring the issue of Valverde entirely). Coutinho will have to drop into midfield and track midfield runners, he will also need to press effectively when out of possession. He doesn't have the speed or physicality to help us break on counters either. We genuinely cant afford him to not fulfill any of these duties as we will effectively have 2-3 people walking around not helping when out of possession. Couple that with the fact that we currently have a guaranteed midfield of Busi/Raki/someone, we would be incredibly slow in the middle of the park with very little to no movement.

I agree with 2 walkers part. But Suarez also often stops the game play fluidity and his finishing % dropped a lot. Switching him with Coutinho shouldn t make that much of a difference in defense, but it should make a difference in game flow. The question is how to incorporate this with Messi and Dembele. Perhaps some form of position changing tactic...
Regarding Physicality.....you are wrong. Physically Coutinho s only problem is stamina. And i wouldn t call it a problem, more like a weakness, similar to Messi.

This if of course is ignoring the fact that in that position Coutinho will be occupying the same space Messi operates in. Considering the disparity in their talent Messi should not be making concessions to help fit Coutinho in, if anything it should be Coutinho making concessions to ensure he fits in with the squad.

Yes, this is true. It would take a tactical adjustment in order to incorporate this, which is why i m not holding my breath, considering Valverde s tactical rigidness.
It does makes sense to me to try to solve this team current problems with current players. Specially if a 100+ mil player sits on the bench. The worst it could happen,we loose few points in La liga and that s an extreme, worst case scenario.
Best case scenario is Coutinho s revival.

In any case, trying and knowing is better than believing.

 

[FCBarca]

 

[Vilarrubi]

Was that about my post was meant to put it in the Tadic thread

 

[DonAK]

Watching yesterdays Tadic performance i thought of Coutinho. As Cou, Tadic is also AM, but they play him as striker in Ajax and it obviously works great.

I think this is something Valverde should consider trying. If it works it solves 2 mayor problems. Coutinho s uneffectiveness and the striker issue for the future.

I m not sure if Messi could adapt to this tactic, but i m sure it would make him (even)more dangerous.

Tadic is a lot stronger physically and is able to go out wide and hold the ball, also good at making runs to create space for himself and the other players. Coutinho would just lose the ball all the time and wait for the ball instead of making constant progressive runs.

And the reason it works for Ajax is because the entire team works hard off the ball and presses the ball carrier like a team.

 

[jairzinho]

It's sad how things have turned out for him this season. He's not happy on the pitch at all.

 

[Leo_Messi]

It's sad how things have turned out for him this season. He's not happy on the pitch at all.

He is to blame for that and nobody else. Never seen a more hyped, expensive and supposedly "world class" player be this average for this long and have such a horrible attitude and body language on the pitch. He is the definition of a flop. That is putting it mildly. Casted completely wrongly as I wrote in the spring of 2017 and wrongly promised/hyped/imagined as the successor of Iniesta. Never seen a thing this comical in ages.

12th May 2017, 03:25 PM

This transfer would make little sense but for this very reason I expect our useless board to buy him.

We don't need another offensive player but players in the mould of Verratti, Weigl, Pjanic etc. Midfielders who can dictate the play and help keep possession. Players that will strengthen the midfield's defensive contribution when not in possession as well.

Bernardo Silva would be a much better addition should we pursue a player with similar characteristics to Coutinho. He would be cheaper and 2 years younger too.

I cannot see him replace Iniesta and he would add little that we don't have already. Don't get me wrong, Coutinho is a very good player that has much room for improvement but he would not be the ideal fit as things are currently. Unless we buy Verratti as well which is incredibly unlikely.

 

[Giginho75]

Not great season for him, ok, no doubt.

I think probably he needs to feel himself number one of the team (as in the Liverpool) and always in the starting eleven.

Anyway I remember last year when a lot of users wanted his purchase in every way, despite the absurd price, complaining with the board because they didn't buy him the previous summer (in fact he arrived in january).

Now we have two options:
- hoping he improves and reacts soon and quickly;
- selling him, hoping to recover the most possible, despite it will be impossibile to get the same money we gave to Liverpool.

 

[Raketa10]

I really can't understand WTF happened with him. We can argue about his playing position or his defending abilities or something else but it's unbelievable he can't even make a simple pass, can't shoot, can't dribble, he can't do anything it's like all of his skills disappeared in the last 6 months. With Arda it was obvious he is done and that his physical condition was horrible but Cou looks perfectly fit so it looks like he has some personal issues. I would really like to know what is the main reason he is playing like a dead cow?!

 

[Sorin]

Oficially our biggest flop signing. Leaving the Ibrahimovic deal in the dust.

Fuck man, just imagine what we could've done with 160m, instead of wasting it on a mentally weak player. Pisses me off.

 

[Raketa10]

Oficially our biggest flop signing. Leaving the Ibrahimovic deal in the dust.

Fuck man, just imagine what we could've done with 160m, instead of wasting it on a mentally weak player. Pisses me off.

To be fair no one could have predicted this. Let's not write him off yet. There is still time for him but what worries me is the fact that Valverde sees him only as a LW.

 

[behindbrowneyes]

I really can't understand WTF happened with him. We can argue about his playing position or his defending abilities or something else but it's unbelievable he can't even make a simple pass, can't shoot, can't dribble, he can't do anything it's like all of his skills disappeared in the last 6 months. With Arda it was obvious he is done and that his physical condition was horrible but Cou looks perfectly fit so it looks like he has some personal issues. I would really like to know what is the main reason he is playing like a dead cow?!

He is wearing Arda's #7 shirt. I'm a big fan of that number but in Barcelona it is cursed. Cou needs to take back that #14.

But seriously, I fail to draw a conclusion to what happened with Cou this season.

 

[Sorin]

To be fair no one could have predicted this. Let's not write him off yet. There is still time for him but what worries me is the fact that Valverde sees him only as a LW.

Well, yeah, I would have never guessed that he would be that useless on the pitch. Especially after that start of the season for Liverpool and even the half a year with us.

I don't have any hopes that he'll improve for us, especially under Valverde. Let's hope that I'm wrong but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Judoman]

Oficially our biggest flop signing. Leaving the Ibrahimovic deal in the dust.

Fuck man, just imagine what we could've done with 160m, instead of wasting it on a mentally weak player. Pisses me off.

Ibra wasn t a flop signing. He could have been with us for a long time if not for Pep.

At that moment in time nobody knew Coutinho would have such problems. Most of us approved his signing (while insanely expensive), because we thought he would revitalise our midfield. Can t blame anybody.
I question Valverde s ability to adapt his tactic to players abilities. Coutinho on the bench is not an option. Either Valverde finds the way to use him as a starter or he should be sold.

 

[Leo_Messi]

To be fair no one could have predicted this. Let's not write him off yet. There is still time for him but what worries me is the fact that Valverde sees him only as a LW.

Disagree that "none could have predicted" this. I pretty much did back in May 2017. Obviously I am not going to lie and say that I expected SUCH a pathetic performance but I certainly did not accept him to succeed.

Problem is that he does not really fit either system (4-3-3 or 4-4-2) that Valverde has been using. His best fit would be in a system much like the one Tite used at the World Cup where he was flanked/secured by two hard-working DM/CM's in Fernandinho and Paulinho.

I could only see him work in a 4-3-3 if he plays in a similar position (Iniesta's position but more closer to the middle of the pitch than closer to the left wing) behind Busquets and De Jong. He would need at least 1 mobile midfielder (De Jong) to cover him. The Busquets and Rakitic midfield with Coutinho in front of them was not trusted by Valverde the few times it was actually tried.

The problems with him (individually) are just too many nowadays and that is notwithstanding the dilemmas that Messi's and in particular Dembélé's presence causes for him.

Honestly, if we received a great offer from an EPL club or QSG we should take it and run away. No need to get the wound infected if you can treat it.

A misfit from the very beginning, I am afraid.