8 - Pedri

[serghei]

I have a feeling that something went wrong with these Barca DNA midfielders.

Thiago, Arthur, Pedri, Riki Puig.

More or less none of them can shoot and score.
It is visible that they grew up watching football during Pep and that they adopted only one part of the game: pass, move, recycle possession to death.

Each of these players would be a valuable part of Pep's team.
But there is a problem:
1. Pep is not here
2. no other coach plays like Pep
3. Pep's team had enough of attacking power with Messi, Etoo, Henry or Messi, Villa, Pedro.

So, for example, if we would be creating 15-20 shots per match and if we would have prime Messi-Haaland attack, then guys like Pedri or Arthur wouldn't be a problem.
They would recycle possession and attackers would score.

Imo, these players can thrive only in perfect conditions with perfect teammates.

When the times are not perfect, which happens in 90% of years, players like these are meh and don't expect from them to lead the team or create wonders.

Our attack is bad and then we have 3 midfielders who need 28 shots to score one goal.

Fans need to realize that Xavi-Iniesta-Busi was an anomaly.
We won in spite of their shitty finishing, not because of their lack of finishing.

There are just too many players in our team who can only play possession and who can pass *to someone else who is supposed to score* like Alba, Dest, Busi, Frenkie, Pedri.
Plus, our attack is meh.

All in all, Pedri is slowly turning into Arthur at CAM position.
Meh at everything except possession.

** btw is this Barca DNA for 2025 and 2030 = no physique, no aggression, no pace, no shooting, no scoring.

Just passing, passing, passing till death.

Btw, I haven't watched other football clubs for almost 10 years, except Barca.

Lately, watching Barca is so boring, slow, predictable and horrible that I started to have more fun watching anyone else like Milan, Roma, EPL etc.

Also, imo, too many Barca & La Masia purists are making a mistake = they think that Barca DNA, midfielders and La Masia brought 2008-2011 glory.

Imo, Barca DNA and our midfielders are nothing without a key ingredient = attacking power/superstars in attack.

Of course, superstars won't work without midfield either.

But as I have wrote above, we don't have any attacking power and it will be even worse after Messi, and yet our midfield is some cheap copy of glorious midfield from the past.

This combo doesn't deserve more than the 3rd place and round of 16 in a CL.
Regardless of a coach, Mats and defense, who also suck, of course.

Don't know if you've seen this, but high-scoring midfielders are usually very rare. Teams have just one of that kind. If that. Teams don't have Frank Lampards in midfield racking up the goals. How many goals did Chelsea's 3 midfielders, Kante, Jorginho, and Kovacic score this season?

Do some research and see that goals from midfield are a rarity in most teams, the midfield's main and most important role in attack is to transport the ball to attacking players and put them in good positions to make a difference. Especially teams that play with 3-4 attackers in 4-3-3, and 4-2-3-1. When you play 4-4-2 then yes, you need a very proficient scorer in midfield, like Giggs was for United, or Seedorf for Milan. Or when you have an unusually high-workrate offense players that work their buts off defensively (this is also a rarity).

When you take the luxury of replacing a CM (no 6-8), for an AM or a no10, or a winger, then you also reduce the offensive risks the remaining midfielders will be able to take, especially if the system is not very fluid. The remaining midfielders will have a more control-oriented role, and less of an attacking role where they leave their positions to join offense. This is one of the errors Koeman made this season, which weakened our defense greatly at times (he instructed both Pedri and De Jong to make many runs forward, without taking the precautions of having other players covering their zones, and with slow Busi as the only one left who didn't vacate his original position).

With 4-4-2 systems, you have 2 strikers (Inzaghi - Crespo for Milan, or Andy Cole - Yorke for United in late 90s). This allows for a 4 midfield, which can include a very proficient scorer with a dispensable positional and control-oriented role. When Giggs, Beckham, Seedorf, Kaka would make offensive moves, you'd have your best defensive CM-DM take action and cover the zone. No wonder that these very offensive midfielders had supportive players like Roy Keane, Gatusso next to them. Same with Isco and Casemiro in Zidane's 4-4-2 setups.

It's very easy for a 4-4-2 to switch to a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with 1 or even 2 midfielders joining the offense. A natural morph. It's not as natural for a 4-3-3 to switch into a 4-2-4.

The 4-3-3 midfield is more possession and control-oriented. You can have offensive high-scoring midfielders in this setup, but you need a winger like Pedro, or a fullback like Alves who will tuck inside. Like Zinchenko/Walker is doing for City whenever De Bruyne joins offense (depending on the flank where De Bruyne appears). There are many tactical things that have to very well set up in order to have a consistent scoring midfielder in a 4-3-3 system.

 

[Rory]

Yeah a high goal scoring midfielder is a rare/specialist thing. Pedri?s future lies at cm or even a cdm for me.

 

[serghei]

Yeah a high goal scoring midfielder is a rare/specialist thing. Pedri?s future lies at cm or even a cdm for me.

Same. I think him having to cover such a huge area every game with no rest is the main cause of him being burned out. It's not only an age + playing time think. It's also the tactical burden Koeman has put on him.

 

[Laplacian]

BBZ needs a few new players to pick on to get his fix, so since he can't really get Pedri for anything else he needs to paint him in a bad light for not being Lampard.

Not to mention he's absolutely wrong about the players he's listed. Neymar for example, has absolute changed from his Santo days quite a lot. Play style wise and tactically. Just because he likes to dribble doesn't mean he's the same player lol.

 

[Bobo32]

I only skimmed BBZ:s walls of text here, but he looks to make a decent analysis of the player, although as usual I think he makes a lot of false assumptions on how other people think, and his simplified reality is just false.
Just like Pedris play, he is a bit lost in the big picture, but have some glimpses of truth here and there, almost out of chance? At least he seems to think for himself, and I think he is more daring than Pedri is in his play

Pedri never showed to have "Barca-DNA". He could be a good inside winger for Barcelona though.

 

[BBZ8800]

Minutes needed per one league goal by midfielders from some of top teams:

800 minutes Pedri
1000 Frenkie
2350 Busi (0 goals)

450 Casemiro
700 Kroos
800 Modric

230 Llorente
330 Carrasco
950 Saul
2800 Koke

350 Goretzka
700 Kimmich
700 Tolisso

150 Gundogan
400 De Bruyne

If you look at Barca, Real, Atletico, projected La Liga goals scored by midfielders over 2500 minutes (let's say 1 season) will be:
Barca 5,5 goals from midfielders
Real 12,5 goals
Atletico 19,5 goals

Now, only check the difference between Barca and Real.
Imagine if we had 12,5 goals instead of 5,5 from midfielders.
Try to spread 7 goals over the season.
Let's say 5 goals in meaningful games and one goal against Girona for 2:2 and one goal against Levante for 4:3.
That is at least 4 points more.
We are the champions, right?

Not to mention if you take Atletico's numbers and if you add additional 14 goals to our numbers.
We would be 5-10 points clear with 14 additional goals, right?

I know, you could say: we could get those numbers from attackers or fullbacks, but every tiny detail counts.
That's like saying: we don't need a playmaker fullback.
Well, we don't.
But we would be stronger with one.
That was the difference between City's and Psg's fullbacks, for example.

So, basically, today we have a team consisted of:
A gk who can't save, defenders who can't defend, fullbacks who are either stupid or can't defend, midfielders who can't defend or score, attackers who can't score bar Messi.

Our midfield wouldn't be a problem with 3 amazing attackers.
But since we don't have 3 attackers, we either need better attackers or more lethal midfielders or both.

Regarding midfielders, unless if they are as good as Iniesta, I don't see too much pros from possession merchants who can't do anything else on the field.

No wonder that we are dead in a CL or against strong La Liga teams once when you close down Messi.
When he is marked, what is left?
Slow Griezmann and 3 midfielders who are either afraid of shooting or suck at it, paired with 2 more or less brainless fullbacks.

** Not to mention, if the opponents are not afraid of Pedri's shooting, more defenders will mark Messi and let Pedri shoot, which he won't do.

But you, and majority of fans here are coming from Pep's idea of Barca and I can understand that you don't see why CMs who rely only on possession would be a wrong choice.

 

[Bobo32]

But you, and majority of fans here are coming from Pep's idea of Barca and I can understand that you don't see why CMs who rely only on possession would be a wrong choice.

Was this directed towards me?

This post was a bit retarded tbh, you can't really argue that way and put in potential goals from midfield in the games where they would be needed.
The game is fluid and you can't add something without messing with the whole picture. Although Modric, Kroos, Saul or Koke would probably be good additions to Barcelona, disregarding goals...
Pedri is not a central midfielder, I have said from the start. Not because he scores too few goals though, that's the least of his problems from there.

What Barcelona have is a team where the goalie and most of the defenders can build up well and act as the first men in attack and where at least some of the attackers are ready to be the first ones to defend.
This is what is needed to play the way Barcelona should. They should have the ball and know what to do with it, and mostly defend high up the pitch, the defenders should defend as little as possible.
Some changes in the squad are needed - but only minor ones - in order to have a team able to play the way I want.

If Barcelona should be able to defend well from deep, they need to get rid of most of the players, and start to build their squad way differently, yes.

 

[magicomessi]

Some compare him to iniesta lol
Iniesta wasn?t ever too slow like this turtle & we can agree that iniesta can shoot too

 

[Bobo32]

The one thing Pedri have in common with a young Iniesta is his inability and lack of willingness to shoot.

 

[mc_lovin]

Best part about Pedri is that he helps to distinguish users here with some common sense and the usual guys with absolute shit takes and zero context or perspective.

 

[Rory]

Best part about Pedri is that he helps to distinguish users here with some common sense and the usual guys with absolute shit takes and zero context or perspective.

Yup it's like Pedri = Attacking mid therefore must score 10+ goals. Failing that hurdle means anything he's done all year is useless. Honestly

 

[serghei]

Minutes needed per one league goal by midfielders from some of top teams:

800 minutes Pedri
1000 Frenkie
2350 Busi (0 goals)

450 Casemiro
700 Kroos
800 Modric

230 Llorente
330 Carrasco
950 Saul
2800 Koke

350 Goretzka
700 Kimmich
700 Tolisso

150 Gundogan
400 De Bruyne

If you look at Barca, Real, Atletico, projected La Liga goals scored by midfielders over 2500 minutes (let's say 1 season) will be:
Barca 5,5 goals from midfielders
Real 12,5 goals
Atletico 19,5 goals

Now, only check the difference between Barca and Real.
Imagine if we had 12,5 goals instead of 5,5 from midfielders.
Try to spread 7 goals over the season.
Let's say 5 goals in meaningful games and one goal against Girona for 2:2 and one goal against Levante for 4:3.
That is at least 4 points more.
We are the champions, right?

Not to mention if you take Atletico's numbers and if you add additional 14 goals to our numbers.
We would be 5-10 points clear with 14 additional goals, right?

I know, you could say: we could get those numbers from attackers or fullbacks, but every tiny detail counts.
That's like saying: we don't need a playmaker fullback.
Well, we don't.
But we would be stronger with one.
That was the difference between City's and Psg's fullbacks, for example.

So, basically, today we have a team consisted of:
A gk who can't save, defenders who can't defend, fullbacks who are either stupid or can't defend, midfielders who can't defend or score, attackers who can't score bar Messi.

Our midfield wouldn't be a problem with 3 amazing attackers.
But since we don't have 3 attackers, we either need better attackers or more lethal midfielders or both.

Regarding midfielders, unless if they are as good as Iniesta, I don't see too much pros from possession merchants who can't do anything else on the field.

No wonder that we are dead in a CL or against strong La Liga teams once when you close down Messi.
When he is marked, what is left?
Slow Griezmann and 3 midfielders who are either afraid of shooting or suck at it, paired with 2 more or less brainless fullbacks.

** Not to mention, if the opponents are not afraid of Pedri's shooting, more defenders will mark Messi and let Pedri shoot, which he won't do.

But you, and majority of fans here are coming from Pep's idea of Barca and I can understand that you don't see why CMs who rely only on possession would be a wrong choice.

Some explanations.

Gundogan played false 9 a lot of games. A bunch of midfielders for City play as forwards. Pep puts as many as 6-7 types of different midfielders into the same line-up.

Madrid have a lack of quality forwards. Played 4-4-2 variants frequently. How often did they line-up with Benzema, Vinicius AND Hazard or Rodrygo?

Bayern have, as well, forwards with poor scoring numbers and very good work-rate, who cover for offensive midfielders often. How many goals did Sane, Coman, and Gnabry score? And they are playing in a super-offensive oriented league where likes Mainz go to attack them .

Also, Llorente is more like a second striker.

 

[jairzinho]

It's not just about having goal scoring mids imo. It's also the predictability of attacking play. It's easy to defend against this team when you already know the scoring threat comes from just 2 players at times, e.g. Messi / Greizmann. You don't really need to worry about anyone else. So it's easier to defend.

You don't have to worry about: shots from outside, crosses, players attacking the box, players from midfield making crazy runs. So our attacking play mostly is predictable and sterile. Sideways, backwards, repeat that until either Messi /Greizmann is open and then pass it to them.

When you look at other top teams, they can hurt you in so many different ways and their midfield plays a big part in that.

 

[serghei]

It's not just about having goal scoring mids imo. It's also the predictability of attacking play. It's easy to defend against this team when you already know the scoring threat comes from just 2 players at times, e.g. Messi / Greizmann. You don't really need to worry about anyone else. So it's easier to defend.

You don't have to worry about: shots from outside, crosses, players attacking the box, players from midfield making crazy runs. So our attacking play mostly is predictable and sterile. Sideways, backwards, repeat that until either Messi /Greizmann is open and then pass it to them.

When you look at other top teams, they can hurt you in so many different ways and their midfield plays a big part in that.

Yea, the predictability of attacking play is real for us, but it is mostly because we run the game through Messi. That's the main reason. When Messi will be gone you will see players taking more shots because they won't feel the pressure of playing Messi.

De Jong has at least 2-3 situations per game where in great positions he plays Messi.

 

[Joan]

Minutes needed per one league goal by midfielders from some of top teams:

800 minutes Pedri
1000 Frenkie
2350 Busi (0 goals)

So Pedri scores the most out of Barca's midfielders while being constantly slaughtered for it. Good to know