8 - Pedri

[serghei]

Frenkie isn't even that good of a scorer. He could certainly improve that part of his game. He could be very valuable offensively, if he did that.

Frenkie shies away kicking the ball.

Neither is. We lack this type of midfielder. Rakitic was at times, which is why he was a great fit for us in the first part of his 5 years with us.

 

[mc_lovin]

But the more important you are in the build-up, the closer you get to being a CM rather than an AM. That's the main distinction between CM and AM. CM is more concerned with build-up, passing network, AM is a difference-maker in the last 3rd more, through dribbles, passing, and shots.

Does it matter? I would say Iniesta was a CM, that played between the lines. Like Pedri. Compared to Xavi, who primarily wanted the ball. Bobo for example heavily favors the latter, but both types are needed. And both are primarily buildup players compared to the likes of de Bruyne, who's more of a #10.

For a 433 the choice is clear.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

But as you know, a player trajectory is not mathematics. He can be better than Iniesta at, but this doesn't mean he'll be better than Iniesta at 25.

I don't think Pedri is world-class btw. There's some hype atm, which is nice to see because he's our player and we have high hopes for him, but he's not better than 2005 Iniesta for example. He's only 18, but he will need to keep developing.

Yeah exactly. Some players peak early someone peaks 35. You never know. Pedri seems to me very motivated person. I doubt Arthur happens to him.

 

[vegitot]

Only when he was almost 25, which is 6 years away from Pedri.
Back in 2005-2008, no one was saying Iniesta can't be an Am because he wasn't scoring goals.
He had a great passing and dribbling, although the later wasn't world class until he was 23 or so.
And Barca is rebuilding, we can afford Pedri not being a top quality in those areas for next season or two. Having a CM like FDJ who can score also make them great fit together

2008-09 season is when Iniesta played as AM. He was just outstanding and had lots of assists and dribbles (Rooney even said he was the best player in the world after 2009 final).
Pedri at Las Pasmas and in first few two months here also prefered to dribble (vs Juventus for example). But he has changed a lot. Now he focuses more on passing and controlling midfield. I think when he is stronger and bigger, he will dribble more. Being stronger helps you take on opponents easier.

 

[FinBarcelonafan]

Neither is. We lack this type of midfielder. Rakitic was at times, which is why he was a great fit for us in the first part of his 5 years with us.

Young Vidal would be good

 

[vegitot]

Frenkie isn't even that good of a scorer. He could certainly improve that part of his game. He could be very valuable offensively, if he did that.

Frenkie shies away kicking the ball.

Most of De Jong's goal come from his running to penalty area. He is not good at kicking the ball.
I think Pedri will improve it faster than him.

 

[serghei]

Does it matter? I would say Iniesta was a CM, that played between the lines. Like Pedri. Compared to Xavi, who primarily wanted the ball. Bobo for example heavily favors the latter, but both types are needed. And both are primarily buildup players compared to the likes of de Bruyne, who's more of a #10.

For a 433 the choice is clear.

Nah, Iniesta was more AM, clearly for me. He even was used as a winger at times for us before Neymar was signed. That's why he was never able to replace Xavi, and why Spain fell off a cliff when Xavi declined, even though Iniesta was still world-class then.

Spain had several great AMs back then in Fabregas, Iniesta, David Silva. But only 1 CM, Xavi. So, when he declined, they struggled to form a very cohesive midfield with what was left.

 

[Bobo32]

Does it matter? I would say Iniesta was a CM, that played between the lines. Like Pedri. Compared to Xavi, who primarily wanted the ball. Bobo for example heavily favors the latter, but both types are needed. And both are primarily buildup players compared to the likes of de Bruyne, who's more of a #10.

If you are talking about me, my main qualm about Pedri was that he too often jogged out of his position between the lines to recieve deep without real intention. I thought he played better in the Euros.

 

[vegitot]

Nah, Iniesta was more AM, clearly for me. He even was used as a winger at times for us before Neymar was signed. That's why he was never able to replace Xavi, and why Spain fell off a cliff when Xavi declined, even though Iniesta was still world-class then.

After 2009 Iniesta was clearly a CM. He played as a winger as well but not as AM like he used to play before that injury.

 

[mc_lovin]

Nah, Iniesta was more AM, clearly for me. He even was used as a winger at times for us before Neymar was signed. That's why he was never able to replace Xavi, and why Spain fell off a cliff when Xavi declined, even though Iniesta was still world-class then.

Spain had several great AMs back then in Fabregas, Iniesta, David Silva. But only 1 CM, Xavi. So, when he declined, they struggled to form a very cohesive midfield with what was left.

Call it AM or CM or whatever, but the difference between Xavi and Iniesta in Pep's 433 was where they received the passes. Xavi made himself available and Iniesta received them between the lines (like Pedri). Personally I wouldn't put Fabregas or Silva (the older one maybe) next to Iniesta. Fundamentally different players.

Neither would I attribute Spain's decline to Xavi alone. After 3 major titles that's inevitable.

 

[vegitot]

Call it AM or CM or whatever, but the difference between Xavi and Iniesta in Pep's 433 was where they received the passes. Xavi made himself available and Iniesta received them between the lines (like Pedri). Personally I wouldn't put Fabregas or Silva (the older one maybe) next to Iniesta. Fundamentally different players.

Neither would I attribute Spain's decline to Xavi alone. After 3 major titles that's inevitable.

Xavi's decline also is Spain's decline. It is not coincidence.

 

[fergus90]

Goalscoring is way, way down in the list of the most important qualities of a CM/AM.

I have a hard time with Kevin de Bruyne as the gold standard as well, who's a highlight player, but kind of sucks in the most important games. I don't think his buildup is anything special.

I think De Bruyne gets an easy ride. On his day he?s fantastic but drops plenty of stinkers that get brushed under the carpet.

His form at the beginning of the year was plain terrible to the point City were you evidently much better without him and Gundogan and Bernardo were excelling.

18-19 he was missing for a large chunk of the season and City still won the domestic treble so goes to show he?s not as integral as made out.

 

[jlim632]

Goal scoring, dribbles and passing? There will only be one deco.

 

[Total-Football]

Goal scoring, dribbles and passing? There will only be one deco.

One of a kind... Deco.
Nedved was also in that lane

 

[Bobo32]

He played 90 today as expected
Does anyone have an opinion on his performance?

Here are his touches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HugpVTxEkXA
Watching the game, I think it was obvious again that he was fatigued. Not only on the mistakes and the lazy decisions, but also in his annoying jogging...