8 - Pedri

[jamrock]

Xavi, and Iniesta are untouchable sure, but even becoming a player as great as David Silva was is a tall order I think. David Silva was elite.

Pedri is young. He can still turn up good, but he has a lot of improving to do to reach the level of even some non-Xavi/Iniesta Spanish midfielders.

Yea definitely, my main point was that generally Spanish players don't have the same kind of stat sheet impact as others in Europe, you have to look a little deeper or use the eye test to see there great.

If pedri can get to Carzola level and be with us for years that would be huge.

 

[Fati_Future_BallonDor]

Pre-injury Pedri was something else

 

[serghei]

He isn't an AM. What kind of AM that doesn't even try to conduct attack? Even if you consider Pedri as an AM, he never think like how an AM should think.

He is a CM, with little attacking instinct.

He's not a CM imo, or at least not a very good one.

A good CM is much more capable on the defensive end. I see Pedri as more of a liability in defense than someone that can help out a lot in this area. Most CMs can usually play decent pr even perform well as a DM also.

Most similar player to Pedri in this team is Gundogan.

He has AM instincts. Like his favorite feint even is that delayed shot where he drops the defender first and then shoots on his 2nd or even 3rd preparation. That's one of the key feints AM use to procure themselves a better shooting angle and to wrong foot keepers. Mbappe uses a shorter, snappier, more powerful feint like that also.

For me, he is fore sure AM, but he has to develop some of the raw qualities he has. I see De Jong much more as a CM type.

 

[jamrock]

He's not a CM imo, or at least not a very good one.

A good CM is much more capable on the defensive end. I see Pedri as more of a liability in defense than someone that can help out a lot in this area. Most CMs can usually play decent pr even perform well as a DM also.

Most similar player to Pedri in this team is Gundogan.

He's definitely not a CM, but doesn't make sense you debate it with him.

 

[Messigician]

ppl blame injuries but he was never all that

 

[vegitot]

Pre-injury Pedri was something else

Pre injury Pedri was Pedri under Koeman

Btw, that is an outstanding performance, if you don't consider that he missed two great chances to score and Barca lost the match.

 

[vegitot]

He's not a CM imo, or at least not a very good one.

A good CM is much more capable on the defensive end. I see Pedri as more of a liability in defense than someone that can help out a lot in this area. Most CMs can usually play decent pr even perform well as a DM also.

Most similar player to Pedri in this team is Gundogan.

He has AM instincts. Like his favorite feint even is that delayed shot where he drops the defender first and then shoots on his 2nd or even 3rd preparation. That's one of the key feints AM use to procure themselves a better shooting angle and to wrong foot keepers. Mbappe uses a shorter, snappier, more powerful feint like that also.

His favourite feint isn't his AM instincts. He probably just like to to it before he shoots.

Forget about Iniesta, Xavi, Fabregas, Silva... Let's look at Fermin and Pedri, see which one is actually an AM to you.

Pedri plays much better when he plays deeper, when he can comfortably receive the ball, make long/through pass. not when he has to play with his back against the goal. How many times this season when he plays high up the pitch, he just wanders aimlessly.

He just doesn't attack the final third like how an AM should. If you consider him as an AM, he is a bad one, for now.

 

[Temptation]

Why are hypocrites on this forum criticising Pedri's end product when they were totally fine with Iniesta's?


Why not discuss Pedri's "overall game" just like you lot did throughout Iniesta's career?


Pedri and Iniesta are exactly the same player profile. Same playing style, same position, same strengths, same weaknesses.

 

[vegitot]

Report.

 

[serghei]

Pedri and Iniesta are exactly the same player profile. Same playing style, same position, same strengths, same weaknesses.

Iniesta's end product was good enough to have him featuring in CL and World Cup finals, as either man of the match, assist-maker or scorer of the winning goal. Sometimes multiple of those feats at the same time.

 

[Temptation]

Iniesta's end product was good enough to have him featuring in CL and World Cup finals, as either man of the match, assist-maker or scorer of the winning goal. Sometimes multiple of those feats at the same time.

Yes but Pedri hasn't got an opportunity to do it yet. How many big finals has he played? Where was Iniesta at 20? Pedri isn't playing with Messi, Xavi, Busquets, Alves either...... Pedri isn't playing in a Pep team.......



Iniesta and Pedri have similar potency in the final third.

 

[Temptation]

Pedri is a CM/AM(hybrid Number 8; LCM in a 433) who can fill in as a false LW. He's not a G/A guy but he has good involvement in the buildup and in possession. Just like Iniesta. He's exactly that type of player.

 

[khaled_a_d]

He's not a CM imo, or at least not a very good one.

A good CM is much more capable on the defensive end. I see Pedri as more of a liability in defense than someone that can help out a lot in this area. Most CMs can usually play decent pr even perform well as a DM also.

Most similar player to Pedri in this team is Gundogan.

He has AM instincts. Like his favorite feint even is that delayed shot where he drops the defender first and then shoots on his 2nd or even 3rd preparation. That's one of the key feints AM use to procure themselves a better shooting angle and to wrong foot keepers. Mbappe uses a shorter, snappier, more powerful feint like that also.

For me, he is fore sure AM, but he has to develop some of the raw qualities he has. I see De Jong much more as a CM type.

Defensive instincts are usually the last one to develop.
Xavi started his career as DM, and yet defense was his biggest weakness as CM till he was 28, he lost his concentration and didn't know when to track back most of the time. There was even multiple rumours that Rijkaard was fed up by this several times.

And then, this doesn't make him an AM either, that is making his position by eliminating the other one due to one deficiency.

Pedri lacks both skills and instincts for AM, again in most of his contribution he has been the guy to make a pass to open things rather than the one to make direct assist, frankly which was Xavi role himself before Pep too over.

He doesn't excel that much either playing up front, he lack basic instincts in when to attack space and when to switch places with attackers, he lacks willingness to take risks, his dribbling and ability to break defense also leaves a lot to be desired.

Take a look of available data on fbref for example.
When you compare him to CM/DM midfielders, he is in 95 to 99 percentile in most attacking numbers, you put him against wingers and attacking midfielders, and some of his numbers are as low as 1 percentile (taken shots) or 17 percentile (non-penalty goals) and if you keep digging, non of his numbers are elite.

And I am not sure why bringing Gundogan, who is almost universally considered CM himself

 

[khaled_a_d]

Yes but Pedri hasn't got an opportunity to do it yet. How many big finals has he played? Where was Iniesta at 20? Pedri isn't playing with Messi, Xavi, Busquets, Alves either...... Pedri isn't playing in a Pep team.......



Iniesta and Pedri have similar potency in the final third.

Iniesta didn't play with Alves & Busquets until he was 24, didn't play with Messi when he was a sure starter and not an injury prone prodigy till he was 23, Xavi himself was a world class starter until the time before Pep, but was never a legendary player till 2008.
And at 21, or almost 22 (Pedri's aga) Iniesta was helping the team in CL & LL double. And while he had a Ronaldinho, he had a midfield with Van Bommel and Edmilson starting in midfield, with Oleguer as our starting RB. Hardly a team that was full of WC players, it had a core of great players but many average role players too.

Also, Iniesta was capable of playing everywhere back then, unlike Pedri he wasn't handed the keys to the team from day 1, he played as RW a lot of games as Giuly sub when we had half of our team injured in 2004/2005 season, he played as DM when our defense was sidelined against Benfica in 2006, he played as RWB when Rijkaard tried new gameplans with the team in 06/07 during a dry spell.

So, while Iniesta had better players (debatable) early on, he had to earn minutes and force his way in the team, unlike Pedri who essentially had it easy as he popped in a bad Barca and Spain generations where he was handed the keys from day 1, and as such they should be judged differently. Pedri status, contract and even worth to the team isn't a one of a prospect, it is a of a starter and key player.

That is essential to remember, especially in a time where he is due a contract renewal, and it is well documented that he lost faith in club medical team and how they handle his own health (which is fair, but he should reflect on his choices first).

 

[serghei]

Defensive instincts are usually the last one to develop.
Xavi started his career as DM, and yet defense was his biggest weakness as CM till he was 28, he lost his concentration and didn't know when to track back most of the time. There was even multiple rumours that Rijkaard was fed up by this several times.

And then, this doesn't make him an AM either, that is making his position by eliminating the other one due to one deficiency.

Pedri lacks both skills and instincts for AM, again in most of his contribution he has been the guy to make a pass to open things rather than the one to make direct assist, frankly which was Xavi role himself before Pep too over.

He doesn't excel that much either playing up front, he lack basic instincts in when to attack space and when to switch places with attackers, he lacks willingness to take risks, his dribbling and ability to break defense also leaves a lot to be desired.

Take a look of available data on fbref for example.
When you compare him to CM/DM midfielders, he is in 95 to 99 percentile in most attacking numbers, you put him against wingers and attacking midfielders, and some of his numbers are as low as 1 percentile (taken shots) or 17 percentile (non-penalty goals) and if you keep digging, non of his numbers are elite.

And I am not sure why bringing Gundogan, who is almost universally considered CM himself

I understand this argument, but I don't agree to it.

For me, it doesn't matter that much if Pedri has good attacking attributes for a CM, because a CM position has considerably more defensive elements to it, much more compared with playing higher up.

If you are to judge his abilities for CM/DM, you'd need to look at the defensive parameters of the team. Does the team concede more goals when Pedri plays deeper in a CM position? Are CBs more exposed?

You can play him CM in some cases. If you have a very dominating DM, and a very physical fullback. Like City have in Walker and Rodri. But in normal circumstances, without very physical players surrounding Pedri, he is not gonna deliver the goods at CM for me.