9 - Luis Suárez - v1

[sturridginho]

An extract from the Luis Suarez book came out today about the Evra affair, really interesting stuff.
http://www.theguardian.com/football...solutely-not-i-was-horrified?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

[Luftstalag14]

Iniesta is absolutely NOT past it.

You put him on the market, every top team in the world will go for him and he will bench any player on whatever team he goes to and he would destroy us if he were to play against us, same could be said about Busi. They may be out of form, but he is absolutely not past his physical capabilities as footballers.

Robben was shit and bottled every big game from 2010-2012, he was absolutely not past it.
Terry and Lampard were horrid the season before and the season during which Chelsea won the CL, they were not past it.
The core of Bayern (also the spine of Germany) were destroyed by Dortmund for 2 years, outclassed multiple times on the national stage, yet neither Germany or Bayern ever gave up on the likes of Schweinsteiger, Muller, Lahm etc... and look where they are now.

Iniesta and Busi aren't finished/deteriorating, that's not even debatable, it's 100% fact. They and the rest of our team is going through a bad spell, but they are still world class footballers.

Ineista is not past it? I don't even remember the last time the Don played a brilliant game. Against Eibar perhaps? Once in a great while these days.

Some of those comparisons you drew don't make a lot of sense. For one thing not all players are the same, some peak early some peak late. Robben was shit back then mostly because he was injured all the time. Schweinsteiger is getting there though, his inconsistent form plus the injuries he suffered from in the last three seasons have largely kept him down. Mueller? He is young and he is one of the best "ghost forwards" out there, nobody ever doubted him. Lahm? Consistently great, the best RB in the world, what about him?

Not saying Iniesta is finished. But you have to be blind to not recognize that he has deteriorated/declined. Our bad spell? Just a bad spell? How long has it been? 2 years?

 

[Devils]

Ineista is not past it? I don't even remember the last time the Don played a brilliant game. Against Eibar perhaps? Once in a great while these days.

Some of those comparisons you drew don't make a lot of sense. For one thing not all players are the same, some peak early some peak late. Robben was shit back then mostly because he was injured all the time. Schweinsteiger is getting there though, his inconsistent form plus the injuries he suffered from in the last three seasons have largely kept him down. Mueller? He is young and he is one of the best "ghost forwards" out there, nobody ever doubted him. Lahm? Consistently great, the best RB in the world, what about him?

Not saying Iniesta is finished. But you have to be blind to not recognize that he has deteriorated/declined. Our bad spell? Just a bad spell? How long has it been? 2 years?

My point was it's easy to say a player is past it when a team is going through bad spells as a knee jerk reaction when there is still obviously quality behind in these players whether it is injury or bad performances that result because of it. Nobody ever said Iniesta was past it, until 2 days ago, and it's foolish to assume a world class player is finished based on a bad 2014.

Two years? He was for the most part brilliant in Liga under Tito, he put on good performances in the first half of the season under Tata and he's begun to show glimpses of hitting form in the past few weeks. Believe what you want, up until 2 days no one was doubting Iniesta's class, they were doubting his form, but not his class.

That wasn't the first time Barca got their asses kicked, and it sure as hell wont be the last and when it happens, the pitchforks come out. There are players that need to be dropped/sold in order for Barca to move on, but Iniesta and Busi are definitely not on that list.

 

[Luftstalag14]

My point was it's easy to say a player is past it when a team is going through bad spells as a knee jerk reaction when there is still obviously quality behind in these players whether it is injury or bad performances that result because of it. Nobody ever said Iniesta was past it, until 2 days ago, and it's foolish to assume a world class player is finished based on 2014.

Two years? He was for the most part brilliant in Liga under Tito, he put on good performances in the first half of the season under Tata and he's begun to show glimpses of hitting form in the past few weeks. Believe what you want, up until 2 days no one was doubting Iniesta's class, they were doubting his form, but not his class.

That wasn't the first time Barca got their asses kicked, and it sure as hell wont be the last and when it happens, the pitchforks come out. There are players that need to be dropped/sold in order for Barca to move on, but Iniesta and Busi are definitely not on that list.

First off, I think we both agree that we should NOT sell Iniesta and Busquets, not for any amount of money.

Having said that, I must say Iniesta has been quite inconsistent for quite some time and is far from those days when every touch he made uhhhed and ahhhed me. You think it is a temporary bad spell, I think he has deteriorated/declined (not saying it is permanent and irreversible though), which is one of the reasons why our whole team has been in this funk that we found ourselves in the last couple of seasons. I hope you are right and I am wrong.

 

[Devils]

First off, I think we both agree that we should NOT sell Iniesta and Busquets, not for any amount of money.

Having said that, I must say Iniesta has been quite inconsistent for quite some time and is far from those days when every touch he made uhhhed and ahhhed me. You think it is a temporary bad spell, I think he has deteriorated/declined (not saying it is permanent and irreversible though), which is one of the reasons why our whole team has been in this funk that we found ourselves in the last couple of seasons. I hope you are right and I am wrong.

I think we are in a similar situation to what we were in after 2006. The entire team as a whole looks lost and certain 'core' players definitely need to move on, but there are also players who are poor but are still capable of redemption.

I know it's not the exact same situation but back then we rid ourselves of the likes of Ronnie and Deco but kept players, despite a few poor years, like Puyol, Xavi and Eto'o and eventually built a new team in which those players excelled. I personally think it's the same situation with Iniesta and Busi and they would experience resurgence under a new team. Will Lucho be able to do it? Only time will tell.

 

[Neeraj]

Some discussion on here about us being top 3, who is better, etc. As Barca fans, we have had the luxury of being the undisputed best team in the world, for a very long time. Even when Bayern thrashed the life out of us, there were many out there, saying it was just a blip, and that next year we will still be the team to beat. As the team has undergone changes and decline of certain key players, it's clear we have ceded that title to Bayern. That awe factor is fading away season after season, but when Barca plays a big team, you still hear the commentators talk about how X Y Z are going to fare against the mighty Catalans.

I think saying we are in the top 3, or top 4, at this point in time, can be a bit misleading. A couple of seasons back, the hierarchy was very clear. Barca atop, Madrid and Bayern just below (Dortmund too in that particular season), and then you had the Chelseas and Citys forming the cluster below.I think right now, you would say RM and Bayern sit at the top and should be considered favourite for any game. After that, IMHO, it's more even, with teams like Chelsea Barca City PSG Atletico etc. all sitting behind the big 2, and you would fancy anybody beating anybody. We aren't the automatic favourites anymore. The only factor here is because we have Messi, we will ALWAYS be considered a BIG threat to any team out there, irrespective of form, position, recent results, etc.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Some discussion on here about us being top 3, who is better, etc. As Barca fans, we have had the luxury of being the undisputed best team in the world, for a very long time. Even when Bayern thrashed the life out of us, there were many out there, saying it was just a blip, and that next year we will still be the team to beat. As the team has undergone changes and decline of certain key players, it's clear we have ceded that title to Bayern. That awe factor is fading away season after season, but when Barca plays a big team, you still hear the commentators talk about how X Y Z are going to fare against the mighty Catalans.

I think saying we are in the top 3, or top 4, at this point in time, can be a bit misleading. A couple of seasons back, the hierarchy was very clear. Barca atop, Madrid and Bayern just below (Dortmund too in that particular season), and then you had the Chelseas and Citys forming the cluster below.I think right now, you would say RM and Bayern sit at the top and should be considered favourite for any game. After that, IMHO, it's more even, with teams like Chelsea Barca City PSG Atletico etc. all sitting behind the big 2, and you would fancy anybody beating anybody. We aren't the automatic favourites anymore. The only factor here is because we have Messi, we will ALWAYS be considered a BIG threat to any team out there, irrespective of form, position, recent results, etc.

Here is the packing order, in my opinion:

Bayern > Real Madrid > Chelsea > Us

 

[serghei]

Here is the packing order, in my opinion:

Bayern > Real Madrid > Chelsea > Us

That also translates in:

Pep > Carlo > Mourinho > Lucho

No?

 

[Luftstalag14]

That also translates in:

Pep > Carlo > Mourinho > Lucho

No?

Pretty much.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Some discussion on here about us being top 3, who is better, etc. As Barca fans, we have had the luxury of being the undisputed best team in the world, for a very long time. Even when Bayern thrashed the life out of us, there were many out there, saying it was just a blip, and that next year we will still be the team to beat. As the team has undergone changes and decline of certain key players, it's clear we have ceded that title to Bayern. That awe factor is fading away season after season, but when Barca plays a big team, you still hear the commentators talk about how X Y Z are going to fare against the mighty Catalans.

I think saying we are in the top 3, or top 4, at this point in time, can be a bit misleading. A couple of seasons back, the hierarchy was very clear. Barca atop, Madrid and Bayern just below (Dortmund too in that particular season), and then you had the Chelseas and Citys forming the cluster below.I think right now, you would say RM and Bayern sit at the top and should be considered favourite for any game. After that, IMHO, it's more even, with teams like Chelsea Barca City PSG Atletico etc. all sitting behind the big 2, and you would fancy anybody beating anybody. We aren't the automatic favourites anymore. The only factor here is because we have Messi, we will ALWAYS be considered a BIG threat to any team out there, irrespective of form, position, recent results, etc.

Top post.

 

[dakt]

This is completely subjective and unfounded statement, but I think he'll make the difference in this team. At first I wasn't for his arrival here, but as time goes...

 

[Morten]

Here is the packing order, in my opinion:

Bayern > Real Madrid > Chelsea > Us

Im not so sure about that, Atletico surely has a say for one of the spots. They lost Costa, but otherwise, they are still a royal pain to deal with. They dont have the individual talent of any of these teams, but they can beat any of them.

 

[Schumi]

Here is the packing order, in my opinion:

Bayern > Real Madrid > Chelsea > Us

I don't like this. I don't like this at all.

Not because you place my beloved Barca at 4th place, and below Chelsea! But because it just isn't right. Let's take things in turn.

Firstly, Bayern better than Real Madrid. That is a somewhat preposterous claim to make. How can a team that lost 0-4 on their home turf to Real Madrid be considered better than Real Madrid? Two games against RM, and Munchen could not score a single goal. Not only that, they were completely annihilated on the counter. We on this forum went into a royal meltdown after Real Madrid beat us 3-1 on their homeground, with us missing a golden chance to make it 0-2 and them only equalizing through yet another penaldo. We also had our star-signing play his first game after 4 months. Yet we criticize our team so heavily (and rightly so) yet consider Bayern to be better than Real Madrid!!! No way. Bayern have not the slightest right to be called better than Madrid until there is actually some proof to the contrary. We can also make a player for player comparison and Real Madrid for my money still comes out on top. Bayern, like us, has several ageing players, Real Madrid has basically no single player on the decline. That is of crucial importance.

Second. How on earth are Chelsea better than us? Because they beat Everton? Swansea maybe? Or was it their brilliant display against Maribor that has swayed opinion here? In their only "difficult" games of the season so far, against the two Manchesters, they were underwhelming to say the least. Man City put massive pressure on them even with 10 men, and managed to equalize and challenge for a winner as well. The highly problematic United also had a good game against them, managing a well-deserved draw.

Put Mascherano at DM, let Iniesta build some form and above all, our Nuclear Trident gel in front of goal. I think only Real Madrid would compare with us by then.

Another thing. Atletico Madrid have also earned the right to be mentioned in that bracket. In any case much more than the grossly overrated Chelsea who have achieved nothing of note for years now, and the even more obscenely overrated Mourinho who after his fluky 2010 CL victory has failed abysmally in each and every season.

 

[eye-switcher]

Our poor defence and our poor midfield that lives off old merits are just nog good enough anymore. I very much doubt or doubt, i think its out of the question that we will see a champions league final in the coming two years. Which we should following most arguments around here that we are top 3. Sure we can win here and there of the likes of Atletico, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern etc. but that doesnt mean we are better anymore.
Not even Messi is nowhere near what he oce was. You live in the past guys but refuse to see it.

 

[Schumi]

Our poor defence and our poor midfield that lives off old merits are just nog good enough anymore. I very much doubt or doubt, i think its out of the question that we will see a champions league final in the coming two years. Which we should following most arguments around here that we are top 3. Sure we can win here and there of the likes of Atletico, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Bayern etc. but that doesnt mean we are better anymore.
Not even Messi is nowhere near what he oce was. You live in the past guys but refuse to see it.

We are certainly Top 3.

Only teams that can be considered better than us are Real Madrid (mainly them) and maybe Bayern. Having said that, those two teams have several chinks in their armors as well. If we are not top 3, then who is? Arsenal? City? Juventus? Dortmund? Liverpool? The bookmakers also think that we are Top 3. And they put their money where their mouths are.