9 - Robert Lewandowski

[Maradona37]

I remember this one, of course the other one against Slovenia too. Nice...but....

Let's be honest, those were no dribbles, ala Messi, Ronaldo, or Maradona style, those were excellent runs with the ball. There's a subtle difference...

A dribble in my book is when a player fools the opponent with a body swing, footwork tricks, gets the ball through between legs, etc. - basically makes the opponent(s) disoriented for the purpose of advancing himself with ball past that opponent(s).
Lewandowski is capable of some dribbles and trick...but that's not what he is going to be remembered for.

That's what I said in my replies, those aren't really dribbles, he isn't like Messi, R9 or Maradona with dribbling.

There's no harm in it - he's a legendary player and striker. But Grande and Temp now trying to claim he is a top dribbler (ie giving him attributes he doesn't have) is sheer fanboy behaviour. He's an ok dribbler but clearly there's been so many who are much better. That isn't what his game is about and that's ok.

You haven't done that and have remained fair. And I salute you for that.

 

[JustAnotherBarcaFan]

I remember this one, of course the other one against Slovenia too. Nice...but....

Let's be honest, those were no dribbles, ala Messi, Ronaldo, or Maradona style, those were excellent runs with the ball. There's a subtle difference...

A dribble in my book is when a player fools the opponent with a body swing, footwork tricks, gets the ball through between the legs, etc. - basically makes the opponent(s) disoriented for the purpose of advancing himself with the ball past that opponent(s).
Lewandowski is capable of some dribbles and tricks...but that's not what he is going to be remembered for.

then what exactly did Lewa do in the initial seconds of Slovenia’s goal. that was exactly dribbling, which allowed him do make a run.

I’m just amazed on some of the posts here. Do you know why there are so many hyping post for Lewandowski? because there is just as many critics here. I’ve read here bizarre posts saying Lewandowski is just an „average striker” and „nothing special” or „like many others”, while on the other hand, hyping other Barca players („um oh wonderkid”, „best in the world”, after just one good match or one good season.
And I’m amazed how Barca supporters downplay their own player…It just sad to read.

And just to be clear: I’m not the person saying Lewandowski is as good as Messi. I think nobody who knows football little bit thinks like that. But denying that Lewandowski is one of the best strikers of all time is ridiculous.

 

[Maradona37]

then what exactly did Lewa do in the initial seconds of Slovenia’s goal. that was exactly dribbling, which allowed him do make a run.

I’m just amazed on some of the posts here. Do you know why there are so many hyping post for Lewandowski? because there is just as many critics here. I’ve read here bizarre posts saying Lewandowski is just an „average striker” and „nothing special” or „like many others”, while on the other hand, hyping other Barca players („um oh wonderkid”, „best in the world”, after just one good match or one good season.
And I’m amazed how Barca supporters downplay their own player…It just sad to read.

And just to be clear: I’m not the person saying Lewandowski is as good as Messi. I think nobody who knows football little bit thinks like that. But denying that Lewandowski is one of the best strikers of all time is ridiculous.

The problem you have is you are engaging in a strawman.

As I said, everyone knows that Robert is one of the best strikers of the last 30 or 40 years - nobody has denied that. The pushback comes from guys like Temp slagging off R9 (a much superior player) to elevate him, or from Grande claiming he's a dribbler (and yes, the initial seconds vs Slovenia was dribbling, but the rest was not, there's no need to claim something is a thing that it isn't).

You are doing what annoys people here - claiming people think he's average or poor or never been world-class- nobody has said that. It's the putting down of all-time greats to elevate him that annoys people.

You are even dismissing Yamal now, who is clearly on another level of talent to Lewa - it isn't his fault he's 17 and Lewa is 36 so Yamal doesn't have a great body of work yet (though he has still won a tournament with Spain). You're putting down Barca's crown jewel in your Lewa love, get a grip.

Lewa can be a brilliant player and there can be lots of players who were still better than him, these beliefs aren't mutually exclusive. I think you underestimate the amount of geniuses in football history in your attempt to defend Robert.

Edit, if you don't believe me, here is a second opinion and put in different words by the user @L3v1s . There's no agenda against Lewa, everyone wants him to do well and recognises he's been a brilliant striker.

'I agree this obsessive simping for Lewandowski from some users is goofy at times. Despite some of his cringe celebrations, he seems like a good lad and he's obviously one of the best strikers of the last 20-30 years. I obviously want him to succeed at Barca, but the way some people talk about him and also downplay other legendary strikers of the game as if they're bums(not just contemporary ones)is kinda silly, makes it less credible aswell.'

 

[Temptation]

The problem you have is you are engaging in a strawman.

As I said, everyone knows that Robert is one of the best strikers of the last 30 or 40 years - nobody has denied that. The pushback comes from guys like Temp slagging off R9 (a much superior player) to elevate him, or from Grande claiming he's a dribbler (and yes, the initial seconds vs Slovenia was dribbling, but the rest was not, there's no need to claim something is a thing that it isn't).

You are doing what annoys people here - claiming people think he's average or poor or never been world-class- nobody has said that. It's the putting down of all-time greats to elevate him that annoys people.

You are even dismissing Yamal now, who is clearly on another level of talent to Lewa - it isn't his fault he's 17 and Lewa is 36 so Yamal doesn't have a great body of work yet (though he has still won a tournament with Spain). You're putting down Barca's crown jewel in your Lewa love, get a grip.

Lewa can be a brilliant player and there can be lots of players who were still better than him. I think you underestimate the amount of geniuses in football history in your attempt to defend Robert.

Edit, if you don't believe me, here is a second opinion and put in different words by the user @L3v1s . There's no agenda against Lewa, everyone wants him to do well and recognises he's been a brilliant striker.

'I agree this obsessive simping for Lewandowski from some users is goofy at times. Despite some of his cringe celebrations, he seems like a good lad and he's obviously one of the best strikers of the last 20-30 years. I obviously want him to succeed at Barca, but the way some people talk about him and also downplay other legendary strikers of the game as if they're bums(not just contemporary ones)is kinda silly, makes it less credible aswell.'

Yamal's dribbling ability gets less impressive with every new game. Teams will specifically start planning for him very soon. Struggled to dribble past a single player yesterday. Tried many fancy tricks which failed continuously.

Great passer already though. Credit where it's due.

 

[Maradona37]

Yamal's dribbling ability gets less impressive with every new game. Teams will specifically start planning for him very soon. Struggled to dribble past a single player yesterday. Tried many fancy tricks which failed continuously.

Great passer already though. Credit where it's due.

Ok.

I haven't even said that Yamal will fulfil his potential (though clearly I very much hope he does as I wanna see such a potential genius showcase it). But he's a special talent still and that is obvious.

I also agree that his passing is more advanced than his dribbling at the moment, he's more playmaker than dribbling weaver from what i have watched. He's more of a one-on-one take on man dribbler than a slalom through entire teams like Messi or Maradona or Garrincha or Ronaldo 9.

 

[JustAnotherBarcaFan]

The problem you have is you are engaging in a strawman.

As I said, everyone knows that Robert is one of the best strikers of the last 30 or 40 years - nobody has denied that. The pushback comes from guys like Temp slagging off R9 (a much superior player) to elevate him, or from Grande claiming he's a dribbler (and yes, the initial seconds vs Slovenia was dribbling, but the rest was not, there's no need to claim something is a thing that it isn't).

You are doing what annoys people here - claiming people think he's average or poor or never been world-class- nobody has said that. It's the putting down of all-time greats to elevate him that annoys people.

You are even dismissing Yamal now, who is clearly on another level of talent to Lewa - it isn't his fault he's 17 and Lewa is 36 so Yamal doesn't have a great body of work yet (though he has still won a tournament with Spain). You're putting down Barca's crown jewel in your Lewa love, get a grip.

Lewa can be a brilliant player and there can be lots of players who were still better than him, these beliefs aren't mutually exclusive. I think you underestimate the amount of geniuses in football history in your attempt to defend Robert.

Edit, if you don't believe me, here is a second opinion and put in different words by the user @L3v1s . There's no agenda against Lewa, everyone wants him to do well and recognises he's been a brilliant striker.

'I agree this obsessive simping for Lewandowski from some users is goofy at times. Despite some of his cringe celebrations, he seems like a good lad and he's obviously one of the best strikers of the last 20-30 years. I obviously want him to succeed at Barca, but the way some people talk about him and also downplay other legendary strikers of the game as if they're bums(not just contemporary ones)is kinda silly, makes it less credible aswell.'

to be fair I was not thinking of Yamal but rather Fati, who at one point in time was also hyped as new Messi. And it ended like we all know (at least for now). So you assumed a little bit too much here. And I support Fati too, and Yamal too but hearing from fans words like „he will be the best in the world”, „true wonderkid”, „he is the new Messi” and on the other hand hearing words about Lewa, that he” is not the best” in the world is just sad. For Yamal it’s hyping to support him, but for Lewa it’s cringe right?

And I made no comment on R9, it’s you who downplayed RL9, by saying R9 is much superior player, which is debatable, considering RL9 longevity and goalscoring record being clearly better.

„Comments about Lewa being average” - I’ve read them here and there. Look at the previous season

 

[Maradona37]

to be fair I was not thinking of Yamal but rather Fati, who at one point in time was also hyped as new Messi. And it ended like we all know (at least for now). So you assumed a little bit too much here. And I support Fati too, and Yamal too but hearing from fans words like „he will be the best in the world”, „true wonderkid”, „he is the new Messi” and on the other hand hearing words about Lewa, that he” is not the best” in the world is just sad. For Yamal it’s hyping to support him, but for Lewa it’s cringe right?

And I made no comment on R9, it’s you who downplayed RL9, by saying R9 is much superior player, which is debatable, considering RL9 longevity and goalscoring record being clearly better.

„Comments about Lewa being average” - I’ve read them here and there. Look at the previous season

Fair enough, I am not counting chickens with Yamal.

LOL now YOU are doing it. There is no universe where 'RL9' (why call him that?) is on the same level as Brazilian Ronaldo. Brazilian Ronaldo was an absolute genius and one of the greatest PLAYERS of all time, never mind STRIKERS. Plenty of people also think the likes of Suarez and Benzema are better than 'RL9' so putting him over Ronaldo 9 is crass.

Longetivity and goalscoring record points were covered by me and others in the R9 thread in Barca history, go take a look. The information age and very post-Bosman era has led to superteams and goalscoring exploding for top players. It means little, it's like saying Lukaku has a more impressive international record than Gerd Muller and Pele.

Longevity is also a poor argument for me. I go by peak ability. Robert has more longevity than George Best, Maradona, Van Basten, but they were all CLEARLY more talented. He's performed at a lower level than them for longer, fair enough but it doesn't make him better. It's also down to the increased sports-science and professionalism of the modern era.

You're part of the problem on here by implying Lewa MIGHT be better than R9 or even close to his level. It's a completely ridiculous opinion that deserves nothing but scorn . It's disrespectful to the genius. I don't think you are old enough to remember Luis Ronaldo. Anyone who watched R9 play knows how superior he was to Lewa, regardless of out of context 'stats'. R9 also played in the strongest league ever against some of the best defenders ever (90s Serie A) and a good La Liga, whereas 'RL9' played the majority of his career in a team that monopolised German football against woeful defensive teams, part of the era context I am talking about.

Guys like Ronaldo 7, Lewa, Lukaku, Zlatan and even Messi (though he gets a pass due to his game being about far more than stats) have inflated stats due to the era. So many high goalscorers now come from this era, I wonder why? Are strikers suddenly much better than they ever were? No, it's because this era is very attacking and conducive to racking up stats against fodder.

As for Lewa being average - he has been much better this season than last season, so people were rightly calling out his performances last season. Do you want them to lie? This is what I mean when i say that Lewa's biggest fans wanna protect him from criticism. He was called average when he wasn't performing, and now he is being praised when he is. THAT'S FAIRNESS.

 

[Maradona37]

Anyway @JustAnotherBarcaFan , it is not my goal to slag him off (unlike Cuntaldo for example, whom I insult with glee). I take no pleasure in criticising him next to others. I like the guy - tremendous player and seems like one of the more normal, decent footballers (without knowing him personally). Hopefully he wins everything for Barca this season.

It's just when people excessively fanboy over him and take it too far, something has to be said (see the Levis quote again for second opinion, he puts it well).

It is categorically NOT my intention to slag off Lewa, or say he's average, or not very good, or just a tap-in merchant. It's simply that you are comparing him favourably with some of the greatest players OF ALL TIME, and that is a battle he cannot win.

It's like Ronaldo 9 is a 9.9 as a footballer. You think Robert is too. Whereas to me he's more like an 8.8.

 

[JustAnotherBarcaFan]

Fair enough, I am not counting chickens with Yamal.

LOL now YOU are doing it. There is no universe where 'RL9' (why call him that?) is on the same level as Brazilian Ronaldo. Brazilian Ronaldo was an absolute genius and one of the greatest PLAYERS of all time, never mind STRIKERS. Plenty of people also think the likes of Suarez and Benzema are better than 'RL9' so putting him over Ronaldo 9 is crass.

Longetivity and goalscoring record points were covered by me and others in the R9 thread in Barca history, go take a look. The information age and very post-Bosman era has led to superteams and goalscoring exploding for top players. It means little, it's like saying Lukaku has a more impressive international record than Gerd Muller and Pele.

Longevity is also a poor argument for me. I go by peak ability. Robert has more longevity than George Best, Maradona, Van Basten, but they were all CLEARLY more talented. He's performed at a lower level than them for longer, fair enough but it doesn't make him better.

You're part of the problem on here by implying Lewa MIGHT be better than R9 or even close to his level. It's a completely ridiculous opinion that deserves nothing but scorn . It's disrespectful to the genius. I don't think you are old enough to remember Luis Ronaldo. Anyone who watched R9 play knows how superior he was to Lewa, regardless of out of context 'stats'. R9 also played in the strongest league ever against some of the best defenders ever (90s Serie A) and a good La Liga, whereas 'RL9' played the majority of his career in a team than monopolised German football against woeful defensive teams, part of the era context I am talking about.

Guys like Ronaldo 7, Lewa, Lukaku, Zlatan and even Messi (though he gets a pass due to his game being about far more than stats) have inflated stats due to the era. So many high goalscorers now come from this era, I wonder why? Are strikers suddenly much better than they ever were? No, it's because this era is very attacking and conducive to racking up stats against fodder.

RL9? what do you mean? it’s his brand and nickname, a lot of people call him like that. Now he does not deserve to be call like that or what?

 

[Maradona37]

RL9? what do you mean? it’s his brand and nickname, a lot of people call him like that. Now he does not deserve to be call like that or what?

It's nothing personal against him particularly (and to be fair I called Ronaldo R9).

But I find all these initialisms cringe - R9, LM10, R10, and especially 'CR7'. Like you say it is promoting a brand rather than a person, and reflective of modern football. I can't remember if Ronaldo was called 'R9' or just Fenomeno or Ronaldo back in the 90s, probably he was because the branding sort of thing started happening a lot then and only escalated.

 

[JustAnotherBarcaFan]

Anyway @JustAnotherBarcaFan , it is not my goal to slag him off (unlike Cuntaldo for example, whom I insult with glee). I take no pleasure in criticising him next to others. I like the guy - tremendous player and seems like one of the more normal, decent footballers (without knowing him personally). Hopefully he wins everything for Barca this season.

It's just when people excessively fanboy over him and take it too far, something has to be said (see the Levis quote again for second opinion, he puts it well).

It is categorically NOT my intention to slag off Lewa, or say he's average, or not very good, or just a tap-in merchant. It's simply that you are comparing him favourably with some of the greatest players OF ALL TIME, and that is a battle he cannot win.

And my intention is also not to hype Lewa like his is Messi. As I said I just don’t like comments which downplay Lewa achievements. I also did not say that Lewa was overall better than R9. I said that it’s debatable considering longevity and goalstats. I like to compare players taking different aspects into consideration.

 

[Maradona37]

And my intention is also not to hype Lewa like his is Messi. As I said I just don’t like comments which downplay Lewa achievements. I also did not say that Lewa was overall better than R9. I said that it’s debatable considering longevity and goalstats. I like to compare players taking different aspects into consideration.

With all due respect to you (and you do seem like a really good guy), I believe that thinking Lewa vs Ronaldo 9 is a contest is indeed hyping him. You clearly disagree and that's fine. But for me, having seen R9 in his prime, there is a significant difference between the players.

Fair enough though if you disagree.

 

[Grande]

I did not post Lewandowski goal vs Slovenia to say that Lewandowski is a top tier dribbler like Messi, lol.

Somebody said that Morata scored similar goal to RL9 goal where positioning and awareness matters. In my opinion that sounded like "Lewandowski is not special because Morata scored similar goal"

So, to point at "one goal doesnt matter, regularity matter" sentence I sarcastically posted Lewandowski nice solo goal and I made a caption like "okay, and Lewandowski scored a goal like Messi once"

 

[Maradona37]

I did not post Lewandowski goal vs Slovenia to say that Lewandowski is a top tier dribbler like Messi, lol.

Somebody said that Morata scored similar goal to RL9 goal where positioning and awareness matters. In my opinion that sounded like "Lewandowski is not special because Morata scored similar goal"

So, to point at "one goal doesnt matter, regularity matter" sentence I sarcastically posted Lewandowski nice solo goal and I made a caption like "okay, and Lewandowski scored a goal like Messi once"

Fair enough, though to me that is a weird retort. But alas, the creator of that video thought it was a Messi-like goal though, though maybe he was being sarcastic too.

Either way, he is an ok dribbler, nobody denies that, but it's clearly not a facet of his game really. No shame in that - he's a number 9 and everyone has different strengths. Me, I am partial to dribblers and playmakers, but Lewa is a brilliant hold-up player, can run in behind too, has great movement, generally a good finisher despite missing some easy chances, great in the air, great ainticipation, two good feet, good link up player, not bad pressing in his prime and decent defending corners with his height.

He's not 'bad' at anything but dribbling is probably the weakest part of his game (relative to others), hence my amusement at a few of those videos being posted.

 

[TemporaryFan]

Ehhh. No way. 👎 I am not blind. I am not buying this smelly bologna as a good kiełbasa ... He is not a good dribbler, in a classic definition of the word. Dribbling is not his weapon. He might have shown a few moments where he trick - fooled his opponents (e.g. love that heel pass trick against Tottenham in 2019 in the prelude of the 1:2 goal) but that's not enough to proclaim him a dribbler on par with Messi, Ronaldo the Portuguese, Neymar, Yamal, Musiala ...not even close. As a matter of fact, his dribbling attempts, more often than not, slow down the game flow, if not the ball repossesion.

In my memory, it was mostly encoded by the CL match: 2015 Arsenal-Bayern (2:0) that was an exemplification of his dribbling inability, when he numerous times tried to do Messi with his solo thrusts against Czech's goal that ended up in ball reposession and them gaining control.
When he was younger, say as recent as 2020, he still had some pace and his runs with the ball, like from half of the pitch with opponents chasing , countered with his strenght and balance control, did wonders but... dribbling it was not at all.