9 - Robert Lewandowski

[KingLeo10]

Eto'o is Barca's best 9 in the time I've watched the club in my opinion too. So underrated.

Barca really has been blessed with some incredible strikers over the years.

No other team has a history of attacking talent like we do. Not even RM

Maybe it's because of that we aren't a machine like a Bayern in CL (always in contention/competitive, even though the clubs have had comparable success in the competition).

But when we do win, it's spectacular and beyond doubt.

 

[fergus90]

No other team has a history of attacking talent like we do. Not even RM

Maybe it's because of that we aren't a machine like a Bayern in CL (always in contention/competitive, even though the clubs have had comparable success in the competition).

But when we do win, it's spectacular and beyond doubt.

Anytime Barca wins the CL they are the best team in the world without doubt. To be honest it should have been a 4peat in the Guardiola era.

 

[Yannik]

- Personal achievements? It depends, as context again is much needed. Mid 2000's was a much higher quality period for football compared to today and scoring numbers were on average not as high as today.

What is this based on? Every decade football has evolved from a physical and infrastructural point. Much more kids also playing the sport than 20 years ago, meaning the pool from where the best players emerge is much bigger and competetive than back then. This is generally a theme for any sport. If you look at the olympics then most records are broken recently. Only way for a sport to regress over time is if people lost interest over it and it became less played. Out of my head I could only really think of Tour De France where a regress is visible.

In the 2000s league football was admittingly more competetive because pre-inflation midtable teams still had financial access to top players, but CL today vs back then is 2 different worlds. Not only do more teams from top leagues play in there now, but also all big CL teams are so financially ahead of the rest of the curve, that they hoarded all the worlds stars. "Super-squads" from the 2000s like the Galacticos or Milan would today just be the norm from semifinals onwards.

 

[Temptation]

More complete than Eto'o as a striker/center forward? Yes, I agree with that. Eto'o was not as good with headers.
More complete as a player? Sorry, no. I would love to see Lewandoswki play multiple games as a full winger, he would drop on the pitch like a dead sack.

The same could be said about Ronaldo de Lima as well about headers, though. Is Lewandowski 'more complete' than him as well as a player, then? Of course not.

Lewandowski more pedigree that Eto'o? What do you mean with 'pedigree'?

- Silverware? I hope not, as Eto'o wins easily
- Personal achievements? It depends, as context again is much needed. Mid 2000's was a much higher quality period for football compared to today and scoring numbers were on average not as high as today.
The prime example of this is an average player like Immobile winning the Golden Shoe and scoring more goals in Serie A than Batistuta. Even if he scores 1000 goals, Immobile will never be 1/5 of the player Batistuta was.

Nostalgia bias? I would say no, I rate Lewandowski very highly, simply I saw better players than him. Tell me, did you see prime Eto'o play in 2005? In 2006? Did you see prime Eto'o play in 2011 at Inter? Because I did and trust me, goals alone just cannot describe his skillset, ability and mentality.
If you saw him live, then we can discuss. Otherwise, rather than telling 'Nostalgia Bias, lol' to me, you should work on your football knowledge.

Suarez better than Eto'o? No, to me he was not better. Only 13-14 Suarez approached the levels of prime Eto'o, for the rest of his career he was a step below.
And mind me, I am well aware that he scored more career goals than Eto'o. But then again, numbers without proper context mean nothing in football: he scored more career goals than Ronaldo de Lima as well, still he was not worth half of the Fenomeno.
Peak Suarez > Lewandowski though, I concede that.

The toughest era to win individual accolades is the Messi Ronaldo era.

Lewandowski plays as a number 10 half the time for Poland and still excels with no service.

It's pretty easy to simply dismiss numbers because Lewandowski absolutely demolishes Eto'o in it. At every level.

Eto'o can only dream of having the elite consistency level Lewandowski has had in multiple clubs.

Also, while being shunted out to the wings in favour of Diego Milito can be considered an example of versatility, it also says something about the star quality Eto'o being shifted out wide because he didn't possess the hold up play that Diego Milito, a striker from Genoa had.

Nice try selling Eto'o as a Nazario or a Henry. He wasn't that player.

Typical "Today's player can't be better than a legend of the previous era" attitude.

 

[KingLeo10]

What is this based on? Every decade football has evolved from a physical and infrastructural point. Much more kids also playing the sport than 20 years ago, meaning the pool from where the best players emerge is much bigger and competetive than back then.
In the 2000s league football was admittingly more competetive because pre-inflation midtable teams still had financial access to top players, but CL today vs back then is 2 different worlds. Not only do more teams from top leagues play in there now, but also all big CL teams are so financially ahead of the rest of the curve, that they hoarded all the worlds stars. "Super-squads" from the 2000s like the Galacticos or Milan would today just be the norm from semifinals onwards.

None of the CL semi-finalists of last season had anywhere the caliber of players as this XI Stop it.

 

[iniestaGOAT]

What is this based on? Every decade football has evolved from a physical and infrastructural point. Much more kids also playing the sport than 20 years ago, meaning the pool from where the best players emerge is much bigger and competetive than back then.
In the 2000s league football was admittingly more competetive because pre-inflation midtable teams still had financial access to top players, but CL today vs back then is 2 different worlds. Not only do more teams from top leagues play in there now, but also all big CL teams are so financially ahead of the rest of the curve, that they hoarded all the worlds stars. "Super-squads" from the 2000s like the Galacticos or Milan would today just be the norm from semifinals onwards.

It definitely wouldn't be the norm. Liverpool and man ciry aren't super squads. They are filled with average players, going against weak competition.

Players today get paid a lot more than they used to. Which leads to lack of motivation, will to win and you see Garbage ok the field

 

[DonAK]

They don't have comparable squads to teams from early 2010s to mid 2010s either.

 

[Yannik]

None of the CL semi-finalists of last season had anywhere the caliber of players as this XI Stop it.

Cheerleader effect. Half of the names are your average top team players today.

 

[KingLeo10]

Tactically, there has been a linear progression over time. And the tactics in Man City - Pool games are the most advanced/complex the football world has ever seen

Not the players/squads though. There is a scarcity of top-tier footballing talent right now, especially in the leadership department. Too many social media clowns and not enough leaders of men.

 

[DonAK]

Real Madrid in 2012 had a better team than Real Madrid that won last year and I don't think it's even close.

Quality in general have dropped down last few years.

 

[DonAK]

Also Eto'o is the best Barca #9 yes.

Ronaldo had that one magical season. Suarez ended up scoring more goals, but Eto'o was the complete package and clutch in CL. Had the longevity + big game performances.

Eto'o is one of the most underrated strikers in the last 20 years or so.

 

[Porque]

None of the CL semi-finalists of last season had anywhere the caliber of players as this XI Stop it.

In that era that 11 is incredible.

Now here is the thing. Look at the physical specimens in that 11. Seedorf, Stam, Cafi, Gattuso, Seedorf, Dida. And I'm not going to get into the technical ability throughout the squad. But drop them into modern football with modern training and tactical developments (mainly intensity and increase in stamina over the almost 2 decades) and these players and 11 is a cut above the CL semi-finalists from last season.

Didn't read the rest of the convo, so no idea what is really being discussed , but just wanted to chime in on how incredible that 11 is, and it ain't nostalgia talking.

 

[Temptation]

Football is way more micro managed these days. There are definite patterns of play which many teams have to abide by.

This is why so many of "Maverick talents" are extinct, outdated.

The individual entertainment factor from the sport is diminishing.

But better tactical units are being put out with better physicality and team ethics.

Lesser Flawed Genius personalities and more robotic efficient machines.

A maverick like Grealish is being coached into becoming more of a system product in sync with the rest at an elite team by an elite coach.

A player like St. Maximan will have the same things done to him as soon as he moves to an elite club.

Great collectives but flair killers.

Nothing I said qualifies as "hard facts" though. There's no thumb rules here. Just my subjective observational opinion.

On the other hand, old school coaches like Ferguson and Ancelotti never micromanage their attackers and just roll with a "go express yourself and lemme get the best outta you" psych...

 

[DonAK]

Football is way more micro managed these days. There are definite patterns of play which many teams have to abide by.

This is why so many of "Maverick talents" are extinct, outdated.

The individual entertainment factor from the sport is diminishing.

But better tactical units are being put out with better physicality and team ethics.

Lesser Flawed Genius personalities and more robotic efficient machines.

A maverick like Grealish is being coached into becoming more of a system product in sync with the rest at an elite team by an elite coach.

A player like St. Maximan will have the same things done to him as soon as he moves to an elite club.

Great collectives but flair killers.

Nothing I said qualifies as "hard facts" though. There's no thumb rules here. Just my subjective observational opinion.

Is that really the case though? Vinicius hasn't lost his flair playing for Real Madrid. Firmino didn't lose it playing for Liverpool while he was still good lol.

Neymar at Barca and so on.

The reason guys like Grealish are coached into becoming a part of the system is because they're simply not good enough to be an individualistic player for a big team. Compared to the players I mentioned his flair is worth fuck all.

 

[Temptation]

Real Madrid in 2012 had a better team than Real Madrid that won last year and I don't think it's even close.

Quality in general have dropped down last few years.

Luck factor can't be dismissed in club Football.

Were 2012 Chelsea a better side than 2012 Barca Real Bayern? Fuck No! The best always doesn't win.

In 2004, we had Porto winning the CL playing Monaco in the final. Teams of that level simply don't win a CL in today's day and age. Maybe a nice lil run till quarters or semis....