Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
So BBZ and Zangash, what is the state of our B team and La Masia in general right now? Your outlook? I am not talking about the next big things, just want to see if it is overall still producing good players.
Alen Halilović
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
My view, I am more like a pessimist usually.
But now, I am extremely excited about Samper, and I have high hopes for him.
Something like: a true future starting 11 (important) player like Busquets/Xavi/Iniesta.
From other players, I do have some hopes in Munir, because he has "something" in him, and he looks like a player with Barca's DNA in himself.
Whenever he plays, he looks as if he is already for 10 years with the team.
He may fail, but in my eyes, he always had bigger chances than Halil or Adama.
Players like Deulo, Adama, Halil=lack a footballing IQ, they all suffer from the same disease
They will be 1st division players (Adama probably won't be even that), but in some much smaller teams than Barca.
Players like Grimaldo, we have a lot of similar players (of a similar potential each season), and 90% of them don't make it here eventually.
About new generations, not all players are a crap, but also, we can't hype 3-4-5 players each season as new Messi's, Xavi's, Iniesta's...
In the next 2-3 years, we will surely get 1-2 new players who will be good enough for the first team (Lee looks promising, Alena looks promising etc.
So, La Masia is not bad surely. And we will get some gems.
But we surely won't get 3-4 new gems each season.
Not long time ago, you could have seen posts all around this forum how people said:
Oh, our future is so bright, we have such a good new La Masia's generation.
And then people would say that for the next 10 years, these players will play and win trophies for us:
-- Bartra, Montoya, Samper, Halilovic, Adama, Deulofeu, Munir, Sandro, Dongou, Grimaldo etc.
Some of them will surely make it here, but it was insane to expect 10 players from La Masia in such a short period.
Again, Busi-Pique-Alcantara-Cesc-Pedro generation happened once and won't repeat ever again.
What you see right now is an average La Masia's generation.
La Masia worked the same as now in 90s or early 2000's.
We would get one player in 2-3-4 Seasons.
But then, a myth about magic La Masia was born with that golden generation (coupled with Xavi+Iniesta+Puyol from the past), and too many people raised the bar too high, and they started to believe that everything from La Masia is a pure gold.
So, again:
= not everything from La Masia is bad and overhyped
= but also, people should lower their expectations and learn something from fresh examples, like Deulo, Halil, Adama, Bojan, Gio Dos santos, Gai Assulin etc.
My estimation is something like:
-- you need to have 3-4 players like Deulo, Munir, Halil, Adama, and then we have a nice chance that ONE out of them will turn into a Barca's level of quality
-- but ONLY one of those 4 players
-- when you have players like Grimaldo and similar, 1 out of 10 of those will turn into something
But you see, instead of using 1/4 or 1/10 percentages (even though those are just examples), people usually think that every Adama and Halil will be the next Messi, and that even every Grimaldo will be the next Jordi Alba.
Do you remember posts from a few Months ago when some users asked: do you think that Adama will win a Ballon'D'Or one day?
= well, that is overhyping
Much more objective question would be: do you think that Adama can turn into a starter for a midtable La liga team, or he is not good enough for that?
So, there will be new La Masia gems, don't worry.
But less often than some fans are expecting.
*Keep in mind, when I reply to this I am in no way thinking about the first team, so when I say someone could be great I'm thinking only about earning promotion to Liga Adalente.*
I honestly don't think it looks that dire. The current generation of B teamers seems rather average but there are quite a few who seem promising coming up. I typically won't start to truly judge a player until I see them play for the B team. We have solid defenders coming up who could end up solid and from what I've seen of Palencia he has the right defender mentality to become an important part of the team. As far as youth level goes we're producing many great players at those levels, which seems to be rather easy. Alena, Perez, Busquets, Pena, etc are all very great in youth levels, just as Bojan, Adama, Munir, Dongou, etc were. The B team needs better coaching overall and players like Gumbau and Dani Nolito and even Halilovic should not be purchased and given starting spots over better talents (I know, with Espinosa and Suarez leaving there weren't any better options than Halilovic, but you see my point).
The B team last season was simply awful overall, but I don't think it's a bad sign for La Masia. If every generation gave us all the young stars that many would like to think it does/should then we'd be so stacked that we'd have no choice but to sell most of them anyways. Just one making it through to the first team from each generation is something that should be cherished, and I personally believe that one to be Sergi Samper. If in the next 5 years we only get one more talent to break through I will consider that an enormous success as well.
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Thank you BBZ and Zangash for your thoughts and insights. 
I will start following our B team more regularly.
I will start following our B team more regularly.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
People write crap on their youtube videos to get more views .everyone is the new Messi/Maradona etc
As for Alen ,I like him as a prospect .he came with insane hype early in 2014 but if you forget the hype and treated him as the youngest player in B team playing his 1st year their there is a lot of positive and bright side
He improved his game a lot .his dribbling&passing is clearly on barca level and he got stronger and became better defender as the season passed .his decision making leaves a lot to be desire and his positioning need a lot of work .
He has a bust potential for sure ,but he has the biggest potential for all our prospects of his generation
If we are selling him ,I hope it is for a good reason .club doesn't believe in him for some reason or coach don't like him or may be we see it as sort of a loan
But I hope it isn't just to make a room for our Brazilian affection signing Gerson
Bran the Greenseer
Member
Alen is talented, and unlike Adama/Deulofeu he improved in his decision making even under a crappy coach so that gives me hope. Although with Samper and Sergi Roberto showing great stuff so far in pre season and Rafinha very much being the current 'next-in-line' I don't think he will really get much chances here. Rafinha being his major obstacle because he plays every position alen plays (and more) and is vastly superior in every single one. A loan would do him good or a purchase with buy-back to a smaller team preferably in la liga.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
What about IQ?
He has a Jordi-Alba's level of IQ.
For a full back, you can survive with such an IQ.
For an Mc, Amc or winger at Barca, much harder.
Look at our midfielders.
Xavi is the smartest midfielder who has ever walked on Earth.
Not only that he can predict 3 future moves from any player, a guy can actually predict next 10 moves.
Busi and Iniesta, quite close to Xavi.
I personally have 0% of hope for Deulo/Adama/Halil, for Barca's level.
Halil is insanely talented in some areas, but extremely poor in some others.
His play, imo, is still a one trick pony play (in fact, he has 2 tricks: try a solo action through 4 opponents or start a solo action, pass the ball to the right, move himself to the middle and opens himself for a fast one-two pass, and then he will again either dribble further or try a range shot).
He is more or less good in that, but that is more or less it, from his play.
Last not-too smart players were Guily, Tello and Alexis.
Guily managed to win a CL, with Ronnie, Etoo and Messi, while Alexis was a too huge burden even with Messi and Ney in attack.
I know, players improve at different pace.
Every player is a different story, and all skills, even IQ, decisions and vision can be improved, but, imo, Halil's footballing IQ, vision and decisions are beyond repairable.
Yes, he will improve, a right coach can help him, a good teammates can guide him.
But still (again, imo), he is too good in some areas and too weak in some other areas, that I don't believe that he can improve his decisions/IQ/vision to a needed, Barca's level.
I mean, yes, he can get to Tello's or maybe even Alexis' level.
But that is not exactly what we need in the future.
++ I don't feel too nice when I talk this badly about any player, but again, IQ/decisions/vision is a skill.
The same as pace, workrate, tackling or technique.
And since some players are not good enough because of tactics, movement, pace or technique, sadly, some players are not good enough for BARCA even because of their footballing IQ...
On the other hand, look at Samper's footballing IQ.
We are Barca, we play like the finest computer in the world.
We need Xavis and Sampers, not Tellos and Alexis'.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Neymar lack ideal game IQ ,he is 2nd best player in the team .Alen has vision and talent and he doesn't have poor IQ .that is overstatement . does it need improving in his decision making? that is true but he is already have a good iq and game reading for his age ,insane vision too and very good short passing game
If he has good work ethic and good coaching .his flaws are very fixable
At what age was Messi when you questioned his IQ and what made you question it? As early as 16 he was clearly several steps ahead.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Until he was 21 Messi made more wrong decisions than right one .he was just too good to be questioned
Yes, at the beginning of the season he was a lot like that, but have you watched his development in last games of season? His playing style at the end of season reminded me of Messi - current one, not Messi who played as False 9. Of course he wasn't as good as Messi, I'm just saying their styles were similar. He dropped deep a lot, gave many long accurate passes, he was certainly not just a dribbler and selfish ball hog, like at the beginning of the season. I agree that he played poorly at the begining, and I was somewhat disappointed with him, but those last games really opened my eyes. His potential is huge and he clearly showed to me he can work on his deficiencies.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Ok, we can go in circles forever with young Messi.
Young Messi wasn't perfect, but he was nowhere near to dummy players.
Young Xavi wasn't as good as older Xavi either...
Whenever I watched Halil in Dinamo and Croatia, I had to say several times: wtf are you doing again?
Maybe I am too romantic about Messi, but young Messi never frustrated me.
And young Halil frustrates me almost as Alexis.
Young Messi is like a different universe in terms of footballing IQ.
But ok, let's see how Halil's footballing IQ will develop, and some of you guys should really remember these "young Messi IQ" remarks.
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