Alexis Sanchez

[Sumlit]

How people can actually join to conversation that they don't start, if not midstream?

However, all I see is here is an arguement, if Alexis, as good as he has been in this season, is a player worth to be member of Barca squad. You claim that he may be a good player but does not have a skill set to deliver in Barca and if smbdy is just pointing out his stats this season (and assists are very important in that case) you just dismiss majority of them as simply tap ins- so not actually as a proof of his individual skills (needed to shine in Barca). Firstly, I repeat- I've just watched his goals and assists (to refresh my original memories) and I definitely do not agree that large amount of them were just fortune. Imho, they were quite often part of the complex team play that he finished or provided. So, "who scored stats", although I do understand that you want to use that to back up your original arguement, is not part of my arguement. I just kindly ask you to really watch his goals this season again and if you still think they were more to luck than skill (not only first touch and dribbling but more his undersatnding etc) then so be it.

Your reading comprehension skills are very poor. Firstly, I did not say you cannot join the conversation midstream, I said that if you're going to do it, at least have the decency to go back and read the previous posts to get the whole picture instead of taking the last post for context.
Secondly, I did not say he does not have the skills to deliver at Barca, again, understand what you're reading. I have repeated time and time again that IMO Alexis is being forced to a role that does not suit him. That is not the same thing as saying he does not fit in the team, nor is that the same thing as saying I want him out.
Thirdly, I never criticized him for his assisting. In fact, I have pointed out that is exactly what he is good at.
Fourthly, I never dismissed his goals as tap ins. I expressed my opinion and concerns about Alexis' role and why I think it does not suit him, and people kept coming at me with his goal tally. Me dissecting his goals was not to diminish the total, but to put in context where they are coming from, and how the team and the player cannot rely on that alone.
Finally, you again show your lack of reading comprehension when you say that I "think his goals were more to luck than skill" as I have never said such a thing. I specifically sited three sources of his goals; skill, fortune and culmination of team play. That you from that only got that I "think his goals come more from luck than skill" truly befuddles me.

If you watched all his goals this season and cannot see how the majority do indeed come from the culmination of team plays and a few others from fluky plays, then I really cannot do anything more here.

 

[rixxer]

You really are taking it too personally. It was not my aim at all. Its no surprise that every post consists of a little generalization and regarding to Alexis your opinion seemed to be that he is not going to make it in barca. If you disagree and say that he is just used in a wrong way, then ok, and basically there is not that big difference in our opinions in the end. And I used a word "luck" only because you mentioned a fortune in your post as a reply to Flavia

"and this is concerning because fortune will no always be by your side"

and it seems to me that you indicated that majority of his goals because of fortune. But I may be a poor reader, that is also an opinion in the end

 

[Kohe321]

If you watched all his goals this season and cannot see how the majority do indeed come from the culmination of team plays and a few others from fluky plays, then I really cannot do anything more here.

How is this a bad thing again? And I disagree with the fluky plays part - some of these are bound to occur, but most of his goals has been teamplaying goals - teamplay which he has been a part of.

However, I don't think this discussion will bear any(more) fruit to be honest, so let's just agree to disagree. You think he is being forced into a role he's not suited for, which I would agree has been a problem in the past, but which most of us seem to think is an issue that has largely been fixed this season. I also hope he can improve further for Barca, as I think he plays better for Chile than for us still, which should be reason to be optimistic...

Also, I think you raise above the level of personal attacks about "reading comprehension", it only makes your post read very immature and makes it hard to take anything you say seriously.

 

[Sumlit]

You really are taking it too personally. It was not my aim at all. Its no surprise that every post consists of a little generalization and regarding to Alexis your opinion seemed to be that he is not going to make it in barca. If you disagree and say that he is just used in a wrong way, then ok, and basically there is not that big difference in our opinions in the end. And I used a word "luck" only because you mentioned a fortune in your post as a reply to Flavia
and it seems to me that you indicated that majority of his goals because of fortune. But I may be a poor reader, that is also an opinion in the end

Way to take only one line out of an entire sentence to make your point. Here is the entire sentence for context

this is concerning because fortune will no always be by your side, and complex team play that leads to them can and has been shut down by tough defenses

I clearly say both fortune AND team play lead to his goals, not fortune alone.

And before someone else comes and asks the ridiculous question of "and you think team play is bad?" I'll answer, no I don't think so and never said so, and that was not the point.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

IMO Alexis is being forced to a role that does not suit him.

Sumlit, what is the point in saying that this support role doesn't suit him? He's clearly happy here, he's doing excellently for the team even if we're not getting 100% utility from him, and I believe he still hasn't reached his ceiling yet, both in that role and in general. Maybe he is better in a freer role for the Chile side, but he's still a quality player for us so I don't see a problem.

 

[Sumlit]

Sumlit, what is the point in saying that this support role doesn't suit him? He's clearly happy here, he's doing excellently for the team even if we're not getting 100% utility from him, and I believe he still hasn't reached his ceiling yet, both in that role and in general. Maybe he is better in a freer role for the Chile side, but he's still a quality player for us so I don't see a problem.

He is not playing in a support role, that's the issue. He was brought to fill a support role at a time where Barca had other dependable scorers. Barca now need Alexis to be a dependable and prolific scorer because aside from Messi they just don't have any other. (Maybe Pedro when he is in his very best of form, but he is no world class player, just a very good one)

This has been my point. People then want to show that indeed Alexis has been scoring more, and I agree. However I pointed out that his goals are coming from team play, not from individual goal scoring prowess. I did this not to diminish the importance, merit, or any other aspects of team goals, but to point out that kind of play can and has been shut down vs tough defenses. Barca will need Alexis to be individually brilliant and a dependable scorer. They also will need him to be a constant and real scoring threat to take heat off Messi. My concern is this simply is just not his game.

The arrival of Neymar just pigeoholes Alexis even more strictly into his scorer role. Neymar is now the "creative winger extraordinaire", that means now even more Alexis needs to be the scoring winger, and that's just not who he is.

 

[tello]

There aren't any Alexis fanatics around here, though.

Well, it seems then there are only just many haters around here since every little single word one says about Alexis not doing that well they get bashed as haters and after that they gather and repeat it in a choir to every single one that dares to say his opinion nicely and calmly...

 

[tello]

Firstly, I did not speak of assists, so don't try to add criteria to the discussion that was not original in it. Secondly, I mentioned specifically the last 5 goals as example, which represents a third of Alexis' goal scoring production, which you still dismissed as not being a good sample.
I have provided enough to substantiate my claim, short of posting videos for every single goal he has scored, video who I have actually watched before posting this by the way. The best you can do however, is come at me with a "IF MY MEMORY SERVES ME WELL" Now, who is the one making unsubstantiated claims here? If you can't take 5 minutes to visit youtube and watch the videos and come at me with something more than "what your memory serves you," don't expect me to give you the info chewed out and neatly organized for you.

But here, I'll throw you a bone. Alexis has 16 goals, 10 of which, have been easy scores or fluky goals. That's almost two thirds, if you can't tell. Want more stats? Ok. Alexis' pass success is the worst of any player at Barcelona at 79%, 5% lower than any other forward, while at the same time, passing almost the least of any regular player. More stats? Ok. Alexis' performance in the UCL is considerably worse than that of La Liga. Yes, even this season where he has played much better, his performance in the UCL is still significantly below that of La Liga. (Whoscored rating of 7.72 in La Liga vs a 6.96 in UCL. Previous seasons are worse). Want more? OK. Alexis has barely averaged a dribble per game while at Barcelona. If you average his La Liga alone, he cracks exactly 1 dribble per game. That is of course, without taking into account UCL, in which he has been substantially worse. (0.4 dribbles per game). For context, Dani Alves, a fullback, has averaged the same in La Liga and much better in the UCL.

Of the two of us, you're the one coming at me with just opinion and no facts. You can disagree with my opinion, that is perfectly acceptable, however if you're going to dismiss it and further, if you're going to cast suspicion on it, you better have something more than "what your memory serves you." You're the only one "not backing anything up."

I just regret I don't have such a good command of English like you do or like I have in other languages so I can efficiently express more fact with my posts like you do so often !


I totally agree with these ideas that you've wrote !

 

[Semi-Neutral]

He is not playing in a support role, that's the issue. He was brought to fill a support role at a time where Barca had other dependable scorers. Barca now need Alexis to be a dependable and prolific scorer because aside from Messi they just don't have any other. (Maybe Pedro when he is in his very best of form, but he is no world class player, just a very good one)

This has been my point. People then want to show that indeed Alexis has been scoring more, and I agree. However I pointed out that his goals are coming from team play, not from individual goal scoring prowess. I did this not to diminish the importance, merit, or any other aspects of team goals, but to point out that kind of play can and has been shut down vs tough defenses. Barca will need Alexis to be individually brilliant and a dependable scorer. They also will need him to be a constant and real scoring threat to take heat off Messi. My concern is this simply is just not his game.

The arrival of Neymar just pigeoholes Alexis even more strictly into his scorer role. Neymar is now the "creative winger extraordinaire", that means now even more Alexis needs to be the scoring winger, and that's just not who he is.

I don't think Neymar's arrival does this at all, in fact I think it does the exact opposite. We have yet to see Iniesta, Neymar, and Messi all on the pitch in full cry at the same time. All three of them are right up there with the best dribblers in the world; all three of them create space, chances, attract defenders, and provide that individual brilliance that we need. Although Iniesta and (so far) Neymar are not really goalscorers, they are both still excellent at breaking down tough defenses and creating the teamplay or tap in situations that Alexis is there to finish off. And I feel he's not the "constant and real scoring threat to take heat off Messi", rather he's the player who will thrive from the space created by Messi, Neymar, and Iniesta and score those scrappy goals.

 

[Sumlit]

I don't think Neymar's arrival does this at all, in fact I think it does the exact opposite. We have yet to see Iniesta, Neymar, and Messi all on the pitch in full cry at the same time. All three of them are right up there with the best dribblers in the world; all three of them create space, chances, attract defenders, and provide that individual brilliance that we need. Although Iniesta and (so far) Neymar are not really goalscorers, they are both still excellent at breaking down tough defenses and creating the teamplay or tap in situations that Alexis is there to finish off. And I feel he's not the "constant and real scoring threat to take heat off Messi", rather he's the player who will thrive from the space created by Messi, Neymar, and Iniesta and score those scrappy goals.

While all you've said is perfectly valid and accurate, I just feel the team needs that goal scorer to complement it. No matter how much creativity and team play you have, you will still need individual brilliance in the scoring department to get you tough situations. Messi has proven this for going on 3 years now. How many times has he bailed the team when non of the collective was able to? Being scrappy, finishing off chances, being involved and culminating team plays is great, but it is only a part of the puzzle. The other part is important as well, and the team has lacked it for a while now.

 

[JamDav1982]

While all you've said is perfectly valid and accurate, I just feel the team needs that goal scorer to complement it. No matter how much creativity and team play you have, you will still need individual brilliance in the scoring department to get you tough situations. Messi has proven this for going on 3 years now. How many times has he bailed the team when non of the collective was able to? Being scrappy, finishing off chances, being involved and culminating team plays is great, but it is only a part of the puzzle. The other part is important as well, and the team has lacked it for a while now.

Sanchez with 14 goals in 19 league games is probably only second to Messi in terms of ratio of goals to games for a wide player over the past ten years or so. Probably further back.

There are plenty of things he can improve on but to complain about his goal scoring at moment is harsh.

 

[footyfan]

At the current moment, Alexis is good enough for winning La Liga but not the Champions League. For the champions league, I would rather depend on Pedro.

And of course I'm not talking about Alexis the player but Alexis as part of the front line

 

[JamDav1982]

At the current moment, Alexis is good enough for winning La Liga but not the Champions League. For the champions league, I would rather depend on Pedro.

And of course I'm not talking about Alexis the player but Alexis as part of the front line

Alexis has been the better of the two at RW this season and that is the spot they are competing for really.

 

[beautifulgame]

At the current moment, Alexis is good enough for winning La Liga but not the Champions League. For the champions league, I would rather depend on Pedro.

And of course I'm not talking about Alexis the player but Alexis as part of the front line

so your saying pedro is better "at the role for barca?"

 

[footyfan]

It depends on the game really.

I think Pedro is a better finisher and a better link up player. Alexis' major strength while attacking are his excellent runs but space is usually at a premium in champions league games. If Tata can get that space for us however, I might change my opinion.