Andoni Zubizarreta

Leo_Messi

New member
Double standards that you give Txiki credit for players the manager asked for but not Lucho.

Again whats the difference between Pep asking for Pique, Keita or Alves than Lucho asking for Raktic?

Those are the rules you seem to be applying.

What are you talking about exactly?

You have failed to even mention all the supposed players that Txiki had nothing to do with. Even if he had nothing to do with a few of those players I listed then most of his purchases were successful. Not something that you can say about Zubi.

Zubi among us socios, local fans and most Barcelona fans have been/is regarded as nothing more than a failure as a sports director. For you to compare him with Txiki is a joke.
 

KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
I gave him plenty of recognition for MAtS. Posted that today more than once. He still should had done a much better job with the amount of money he had, concerning the cb and rb he brought in.

The board don't want to renew alves; they also think cuadrado costs too much. Zubi's solution: douglas.

And I don't even know why he went for Vermaelen, and signed him against the medical team.

Not to mention his failure to bring a CB for years. Zubi was the worst sporting director we had in a long time. What Txiki done right or wrong is irrelevant for this.

Rakitic, Suarez and Neymar weren't due to zubi's work, that's why I don't give him credit for it. He was never the one heading negotiations.

Ah well, I guess I've been redundant then as I hadn't taken the time to read through the entire conversation.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
What are you talking about exactly?

You have failed to even mention all the supposed players that Txiki had nothing to do with. Even if he had nothing to do with a few of those players I listed then most of his purchases were successful. Not something that you can say about Zubi.

Zubi among us socios, local fans and most Barcelona fans have been/is regarded as nothing more than a failure as a sports director. For you to compare him with Txiki is a joke.

How many times..... I have not said once Txiki had nothing to do with the signings of players so why on earth would I answer that?

For me both played a part in all signings made under them but got better when found the right managers to make the right choices.

Good job on avoiding the question about rules you apply to Txiki and Zubi though.

Third time .... why is Pep wanting Alves, different to Lucho wanting Rakitic?
 

Leo_Messi

New member
How many times..... I have not said once Txiki had nothing to do with the signings of players so why on earth would I answer that?

For me both played a part in all signings made under them but got better when found the right managers to make the right choices.

Good job on avoiding the question about rules you apply to Txiki and Zubi though.

Third time .... why is Pep wanting Alves, different to Lucho wanting Rakitic?

:lol:

You must be drunk. You are the one that is avoiding questions as always. You are yet to answer a a single of my questions while I have answered all of yours.

You were crying about double standards and using Keirrison and Henrique as examples while I have never denied that this was the work of Txiki. Moreover I have never claimed that a sporting director is deciding a transfer all on his own like you want it to appear like. I gave you a very long list of successful transfers that were made while Txiki was the sporting director. That list speaks for itself. I have neither never written that some of those players on that list I mentioned were not Pep's idea or Rijkaard's for that matter. That would only be a normal thing. So that is also your imagination.


Fact of the matter is that you are denying clear evidence of Douglas, Mathieu and Vermaelen being Zubi's purchases while denying the fact that the purchases of Bravo and Rakitic were clear Lucho signings. Moreover Suárez was Bartomeu's signing more than anyone else. Zubi was not even part of the delegation that negotiated with Liverpool. Nor is buying Suárez for 85/95 million euros a feat. I would have bought him with the right funds if I was a sporting director at FCB.

Anyway this is going nowhere as usual whenever somebody has debates with you. No wonder that many users apparently have you on their ignore lists. Maybe I should do the same again.
 
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Flavia

Guest
How many times..... I have not said once Txiki had nothing to do with the signings of players so why on earth would I answer that?

For me both played a part in all signings made under them but got better when found the right managers to make the right choices.

Good job on avoiding the question about rules you apply to Txiki and Zubi though.

Third time .... why is Pep wanting Alves, different to Lucho wanting Rakitic?

Why is any of this relevant? Zubi was worse than Txiki, period. No matter how much Txkit screwed up, Zubi did twice worse.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
:lol:

You must be drunk. You are the one that is avoiding questions as always. You are yet to answer a a single of my questions while I have answered all of yours.

You were crying about double standards and using Keirrison and Henrique as examples while I have never denied that this was the work of Txiki. Moreover I have never claimed that a sporting director is deciding a transfer all on his own like you want it to appear like. I gave you a very long lists of successful transfers that were made while Txiki was the sporting director. That list speaks for itself. I have neither never written that some of those players on that list I mentioned were not Pep's idea or Rijkaards for that matter. That would be only normal. So that is also your imagination.


Fact of the matter is that you are denying clear evidence of Douglas, Mathieu and Vermaelen being Zubi's purchases while denying the fact that the purchases of Bravo and Rakitic were clear Lucho signings. Moreover Suárez was Bartomeus signing more than anyone else. Zubi was not even part of the delegation that negotiated with Liverpool. Nor is buying Suárez for 85/95 million euros a feat. I would have bought him with the right funds if I was a sporting director at FCB.

Anyway this is going nowhere as usual whenever somebody has debates with you. No wonder that many users apparently have you on their ignore lists. Maybe I should do the same again.

Not avoided one question.

You know what you are saying makes no sense.

Yet again you repeat Raktic as a Lucho signing but wont say why Pique, Alves are not pep signings.....Could try for you to answer for fifth time, but you cant.

I have not denied anything about Douglas, Mathieu or Vermaelen.
 

Leo_Messi

New member
Not avoided one question.

You know what you are saying makes no sense.

Yet again you repeat Raktic as a Lucho signing but wont say why Pique, Alves are not pep signings.....Could try for you to answer for fifth time, but you cant.

I have not denied anything about Douglas, Mathieu or Vermaelen.

Here you are at it again. Where have I written anything about Piqué or Alves NOT being Pep's signings? I have never commented on those transfers. All I did was list a very long list of mainly successful transfers that were made during the reign of Txiki as a sporting director. I never commented on each individual transfer nor have I ever claimed that transfers are the work of sporting director x alone or that managers are not involved.

You can twist whatever people are writing to you from today until the next year but what is clear for every sane person is that Txiki was a better sporting director than Zubi of all people. Regardless of Txiki not being a genius as I INITIALLY wrote too.

We are done.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Why is any of this relevant? Zubi was worse than Txiki, period. No matter how much Txkit screwed up, Zubi did twice worse.

It is relevant if that is the rules used to compare signings of the two.

If Tkixi is so much better then the rules dont need to be bent to favour him by Leo_Messi.
 
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Flavia

Guest
It is relevant if that is the rules used to compare signings of the two.

If Tkixi is so much better then the rules dont need to be bent to favour him by Leo_Messi.

No, it's not relevant. No need to bend rules, it's just the way it is. Zubi was the worst sd we had in years, and he was worse than Txiki.

One brought Abidal, the other, Douglas. Not to mention zubi's failure in finding one cb for Barça. To this day Masch is still there.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
No, it's not relevant. No need to bend rules, it's just the way it is. Zubi was the worst sd we had in years, and he was worse than Txiki.

One brought Abidal, the other, Douglas. Not to mention zubi's failure and finding one cb for Barça. To this day Masch is still there.

Well I dont think its that clear cut.

Under Zubi there has not been as many bargains but there has not been as many complete waste of money.

Under Tkixi they helped build one of the strongest squads ever helped by golden generation of players but under Zubi never dropped as low as in 2008 and let the squad run riot.

For every Douglas there has been almost 40m spent on S American players that barely kicked a ball. For every Ibrahimovic there is a Suarez.
 
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Flavia

Guest
Well I dont think its that clear cut.

Under Zubi there has not been as many bargains but there has not been as many complete waste of money.

Under Tkixi they helped build one of the strongest squads ever helped by golden generation of players but under Zubi never dropped as low as in 2008 and let the squad run riot.

For every Douglas there has been almost 40m spent on S American players that barely kicked a ball. For every Ibrahimovic there is a Suarez.

Under Zubi, the best team ever (build by Txiki) turned to shambles, without proper reinforcements. That warrants him the worst sd achievement.
I don't even care about how much money was spent. Just that 2011 onwards, the team was weaker season after season.

I know it'd be hard to keep the team the best ever for long, but it also didn't have to plummet like we did.

Also Zubi's last summer on the job was a disgrace. Douglas and Vermaelen.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Under Zubi, the best team ever (build by Txiki) turned to shambles, without proper reinforcements. That warrants him the worst sd achievement.
I don't even care about how much money was spent. Just that 2011 onwards, the team was weaker season after season.

I know it'd be hard to keep the team the best ever for long, but it also didn't have to plummet like we did.

Never really turned to shambles, they were still fighting for league and going far in CL and cups.

I agree they made errors, they did what every other great team do - they held on to the same legendary players and stuck to same style for too long.

Thats actually my biggest gripe with Zubi and this board, reluctance to change before this season.

But there is NO team ever that has constantly won, year after year.

It feels like now only are the team getting over Guardiola, Xavi, Puyol era.

Also lets not forget the personal issues that the club have had over past few years with Tito, Abidal etc.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Under Zubi, the best team ever (build by Txiki) turned to shambles, without proper reinforcements. That warrants him the worst sd achievement.
I don't even care about how much money was spent. Just that 2011 onwards, the team was weaker season after season.

I know it'd be hard to keep the team the best ever for long, but it also didn't have to plummet like we did.

Also Zubi's last summer on the job was a disgrace. Douglas and Vermaelen.

Best team ever being built by Txiki is pushing it.

The majority of players and all the important players in that team were at the club long before Tkixi was.
 
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Flavia

Guest
Never really turned to shambles, they were still fighting for league and going far in CL and cups.

I agree they made errors, they did what every other great team do - they held on to the same legendary players and stuck to same style for too long.

Thats actually my biggest gripe with Zubi and this board, reluctance to change before this season.

But there is NO team ever that has constantly won, year after year.

It feels like now only are the team getting over Guardiola, Xavi, Puyol era.

Also lets not forget the personal issues that the club have had over past few years with Tito, Abidal etc.

Yes, it turned to shambles. Losing 7-0 for bayern is what, if not shambles? The team was still fighting for league and cl because we still had amazing once in a generation players, like Messi, Iniesta, Pique, Valdes. And precisely because of this, the team should had been reinforced properly. We could already had won another cl, at least.

Rosell's board was a big failure, and Zubi was a big failure. No wonder Barto fired him, when he decided to straighten things out. Zubi had the past summer to try and fix things, and what did he bring? Douglas and Vermaelen.
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
got to agree with flavia, it turned to shambles because we "allowed" bayern to win 3-0 at camp nou. granted jupp's bayern was a force of nature, you don't simply roll over like that without any fight whatsoever.
 

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