Andoni Zubizarreta

[Flavia]

Were those under Laporta really more capable though?

For every Song, Douglas or Vermaelen look at 70m spent on Ibra and Etoo given away in that deal. Look at 50 odd million wasted on South American players that never played.

People are reducing the job of Sporting Director to recommending players to sign for some reason. But the best thing a sporting director can do is get the right manager in and listen to them. Thats what Zubi did last summer. Thats what turned Barca round when Pep came in.

Again, he made mistakes but last summer was a good one for Barca.

You're talking about numbers? I'm talking about impact on the team. Zubi's transfers were poor. He just got one right, and that was MAtS. And thanks to him, there's no replacement for Alves, with a ban preventing it to be fixed now. The guy had loads of money to spend, and he brought Douglas and Vermaelen. Worst thing, he brought douglas fulling knowing the board didn't want to renew alves, and insisted on signing an injured player against the medical team recommendations. Not to mention Song, who could play cb according to Zubi himself.

Last summer could had been much better. We're being lucky with injuries, or Zubi's incompetence would be hurting us now.

Txiki had his bad signings, but he didn't screw up like zubi did. Not even close.

 

[JamDav1982]

That's not how I remember it. I recall Txiki, Soriano and a few other leading board members wanting Mourinho. Laporta gave him the chance to present his project, vision, the players he wanted to buy etc. (I even recall reading Sport and MD editions that featured Mourinho's preferred starting 11 etc.) but in the end Laporta rejected Mourinho.

Regardless of who came up with the idea first it was Laporta who signed Pep. So the credit goes to him as he had the final say. He could have said no and appointed Lippi for instance who was rumored as a successor of Rijkaard back in the summer of 2008 as well. Or Mourinho obviously.

Anyway JamDav1982 lives on a different planet entirely when it comes to the judgement of this current board. I am talking from past experience in previous debates.

You are wrong and what you are saying is not what was reported at time.

I dont really care about this board and if they are replaced. Although do think Barto has been good for club in his time in top job.

 

[JamDav1982]

You're talking about numbers? I'm talking about impact on the team. Zubi's transfers were poor. He just got one right, and that was MAtS. And thanks to him, there's no replacement for Alves, with a ban preventing it to be fixed now. The guy had loads of money to spend, and he brought Douglas and Vermaelen. Worst thing, he brought douglas fulling knowing the board didn't want to renew alves, and insisted on signing an injured player against the medical team recommendations. Not to mention Song, who could play cb according to Zubi himself.

Last summer could had been much better. We're being lucky with injuries, or Zubi's incompetence would be hurting us now.

Txiki had his bad signings, but he didn't screw up like zubi did. Not even close.

They tried to sign Cuadrado for RB but he was too expensive. The worst case scenario for right back is 1. Alves stays, 2. Montoya or Adriano play until next January. Douglas wont get a look in.

Txiki screwed up to the point that Barca were third in league and players were out of control. It is the job of the Sporting Director to buy and sell players. They let the squad rot and only Pep saved the situation.

Txiki has been abysmal at Man City as well spending almost 200m on players that can barely get in team.

The best thing Txiki did is what Zubi did last summer - give more control to the manager.

 

[Flavia]

They tried to sign Cuadrado for RB but he was too expensive. The worst case scenario for right back is 1. Alves stays, 2. Montoya or Adriano play until next January. Douglas wont get a look in.

Txiki screwed up to the point that Barca were third in league and players were out of control. It is the job of the Sporting Director to buy and sell players. They let the squad rot and only Pep saved the situation.

Txiki has been abysmal at Man City as well spending almost 200m on players that can barely get in team.

The best thing Txiki did is what Zubi did last summer - give more control to the manager.

I don't care how txiki is doing at city, I'm talking about his work for Barça. Zubi failed to bring ONE CB for years. Have you forgotten that too?

The worst case scenario is alves leaving.

You're just reposting the same stuff over and over again... going in circles, as you love to. LE didn't choose douglas and vermaelen, those were zubi's choices.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Txiki was not a genius in any way but he was sure as hell much more capable than Zubi of all people. I don't even bother discussing why that is.

Under Txiki the club did buy players such as Ronaldinho (credit to Rosell there - maybe the most important purchase this century and his transfer kickstarted the revival of FCB), Van Bronckhorst, Márquez, Davids, Larsson, Giuly, Edmílson, Belletti, Deco, Sylvinho, Eto'o, Van Bommel, Gudjohnsen, Thuram, Zambrotta, Henry, Yaya, Abidal, Pinto, Alves, Keita, Piqúe, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic and Villa.

The only real flops were Hleb, Cáceres, Chygrynskiy (Pep's personal choice), Henrique, Keirrison, Milito (only due to injuries when he played he usually did well), Ezquerro (he arrived on a free transfer), Quaresma and Rüstü. The remaining two were bought in the summer of 2003 (Laporta's first season) for a combined feee of 6.25 million euros (Rüstü arrived on a free transfer).

All this in the span of 7 years where the club won 4 league titles, 2 CL, 1 Copa del Rey, 3 Spanish Super Cups, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup.

Had it not been for the very shady deals concerning the two Brazilians (Henrique and Keirrison) Txiki's transfer record would be widely praised.

I don't think that Ibra was a flop. His transfer was too high but it came during the summer of 2009 were RM were going berserk (they used 250 million euros for transfers that summer) so Laporta had to react.

Zubi is nowhere near such a great track record overall.

You are wrong and what you are saying is not what was reported at time.

I dont really care about this board and if they are replaced. Although do think Barto has been good for club in his time in top job.

No, I am not wrong at all. Just took at look at what Spanish media were reporting at that time and how I recalled it sounds about right.

 

[JamDav1982]

Txiki was not a genius in any way but he was sure as hell much more capable than Zubi of all people. I don't even bother discussing why that is.

Under Txiki the club did buy players such as Ronaldinho (credit to Rosell there - maybe the most important purchase this century and his transfer kickstarted the revival of FCB), Van Bronckhorst, Márquez, Davids, Larsson, Giuly, Edmílson, Belletti, Deco, Sylvinho, Eto'o, Van Bommel, Gudjohnsen, Thuram, Zambrotta, Henry, Yaya, Abidal, Pinto, Alves, Keita, Piqúe, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic and Villa.

The only real flops were Hleb, Cáceres, Chygrynskiy (Pep's personal choice), Henrique, Keirrison, Milito (only due to injuries when he played he usually did well), Ezquerro (he arrived on a free transfer), Quaresma and Rüstü. The remaining two were bought in the summer of 2003 (Laporta's first season) for a combined feee of 6.25 million euros (Rüstü arrived on a free transfer).

All this in the span of 7 years where the club won 4 league titles, 2 CL, 1 Copa del Rey, 3 Spanish Super Cups, 1 UEFA Super Cup and 1 FIFA Club World Cup.

Had it not been for the very shady deals concerning the two Brazilians (Henrique and Keirrison) Txiki's transfer record would be widely praised.

Zubi is nowhere near such a great track record overall.

Van Bronckhorst, Márquez, Davids, Larsson, Giuly, Edmílson, Belletti, Deco, Sylvinho, Eto'o, Van Bommel, Gudjohnsen, Thuram, Zambrotta, Henry, Yaya, Abidal, Pinto, Alves, Keita, Piqúe, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic and Villa.

A lot of those were chosen by the managers at time or in case of Ronaldinho... the ex president.

Which going by the rules used Txiki doesnt get credit for.

For all those players signed the basis of the clubs success was a once in a life time generation of players that we will never see again.

 

[Leo_Messi]

Van Bronckhorst, Márquez, Davids, Larsson, Giuly, Edmílson, Belletti, Deco, Sylvinho, Eto'o, Van Bommel, Gudjohnsen, Thuram, Zambrotta, Henry, Yaya, Abidal, Pinto, Alves, Keita, Piqúe, Maxwell, Ibrahimovic and Villa.

A lot of those were chosen by the managers at time or in case of Ronaldinho... the ex president.

Which going by the rules used Txiki doesnt get credit for.

For all those players signed the basis of the clubs success was a once in a life time generation of players that we will never see again.

Together with Txiki who played a leading role in most of those transfers. I never claimed that buying players is solely the work of the sporting director. That would be a foolish claim to make.

You cannot seriously claim that Zubi's transfer record is as good/bad (whether you think) as that of Txiki?

Anyway I want to watch Sevilla-Villarreal and not argue for hours over pointless issues.

 

[JamDav1982]

Together with Txiki who played a leading role in most of those transfers. I never claimed that buying players is solely the work of the sporting director. That would be a foolish claim to make.

You cannot seriously claim that Zubi's transfer record is as good/bad (whether you think) as that of Txiki?

Anyway I want to watch Sevilla-Villarreal and not argue for hours over pointless issues.

You cant dismiss the players signed last summer as other peoples choices and then say Txiki deserves some credit for signings in his time that were not his choice though surely?

I wouldnt want to see Txiki or Zubi back.

I think both were fairly poor until gave up more influence to incoming managers. Although Txiki had a better start but then again had a poorer squad to improve.

 

[Leo_Messi]

You cant dismiss the players signed last summer as other peoples choices and then say Txiki deserves some credit for signings in his time that were not his choice though surely?

I wouldnt want to see Txiki or Zubi back.

I think both were fairly poor until gave up more influence to incoming managers. Although Txiki had a better start but then again had a poorer squad to improve.

Please mention the transfers of those players that I have listed that Txiki had nothing to do with. Go ahead.

We know with certainty that those transfers I mentioned were not the work of Zubi. Vermaelen and Douglas on the other hand were clearly Zubi's signings.

Txiki being poor? Are you serious? He was above average but no genius as I wrote. He was for sure not "poor". Zubi was poor.

So what does a sporting director need to do in order for you to rate him highly?

 

[JamDav1982]

Please mention the transfers of those players that I have listed that Txiki had nothing to do with. Go ahead.

We know with certainty that those transfers I mentioned were not the work of Zubi. Vermaelen and Douglas on the other hand were clearly Zubi's signings.

Txiki being poor? Are you serious? He was above average but no genius as I wrote. He was for sure not "poor". Zubi was poor.

So what does a sporting director need to do in order for you to rate him highly?

What do you mean 'nothing to do with'. Tell me the transfers of last summer that Zubi had nothing to do with in comparison.

Edit: I have not said anywhere he had nothing to do with any of those signings anyway. So no need to be overly dramatic.

 

[Leo_Messi]

What do you mean 'nothing to do with'. Tell me the transfers of last summer that Zubi had nothing to do with in comparison.

You are avoiding my questions as usual.

Bravo was bought because Lucho wanted him. He was not Zuzbi's signing. Ter Stegen was Zubis signing on the other hand. A good signing that he deserves credit for. One of his few "highlights" as a sporting director.

Mathieu could have been bought for 10 million euros in the summer of 2013. I don't recall whether it was Tata or Zubi that ultimately decided not to buy him and instead proclaimed a 34 year old injury ridden Puyol to be "a new signing". I think that was Zubi as I recall Zubi saying such a foolish thing.

I did a quick google search in Spanish and look what I found? Surprise, surprise.

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/09/03/actualidad/1378210911_642237.html

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/bar...ndo-que-maravilloso-seria-jugar-barca-2622809

The club did not follow Rakitic for a long time as you claimed either. The interest first appeared when it was known that Tata would be fired and that Lucho would be his successor. There were no strong rumors before that. Rakitic was a player that Lucho wanted as well. Widely reported in the local media at the time.

Who is left then? Suárez, Douglas and Vermaelen. The remaining two were clearly Zubi's signings. It was Zubi who insisted on buying Vermaelen despite the medical staff telling him not to do so due to his injury prone/ridden body. Douglas too was a signing that Zubi and his friends had been following for 2 years.

I don't recall if Suárez was Luchos wish or not but my feeling tells me that it was Bartomeu's idea first of all in order to remove the focus from Neymar's transfer and the fiasco that was last season. No manager would say no to Suárez either so Lucho obviously wanted him as well. The club did not buy Suárez for a bargain either. 85 million euros (some say 95 million euros) is not really a bargain or cheap nor does it take a genius to buy an already well-establish world class player.

On the other hand many of Txikis signings that later turned into icons/legends/great purchases were bought for small amounts of money and from smaller clubs.

 

[JamDav1982]

You are avoiding my questions as usual.

Bravo was bought because Lucho wanted him. He was not Zuzbi's signing. Ter Stegen was Zubis signing on the other hand. A good signing that he deserves credit for. One of the few "highlights" as a sporting director.

Mathieu could have been bought for 10 million euros in the summer of 2013. I don't recall whether it was Tata or Zubi that ultimately decided not to buy him and instead proclaim Puyol "as a new signing". I think that was Zubi as I recall Zubi saying such a foolish thing.

I did a quick google search in Spanish and look what I found? Surprise, surprise.

http://deportes.elpais.com/deportes/2013/09/03/actualidad/1378210911_642237.html

http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/bar...ndo-que-maravilloso-seria-jugar-barca-2622809

The club did not follow Rakitic for a long time as you claimed either. The interest first appeared when it was known that Tata would be fired and that Lucho would be his successor. There were no strong rumors before that. Rakitic was a player that Lucho wanted as well. Widely reported in the local media at the time.

Who is left then? Suárez, Douglas and Vermaelen. The remaining two were clearly Zubi's signings. It was Zubi who insisted on buying Vermaelen despite the medical staff telling him not to do so due to his injury prone/ridden body. Douglas too was a signing that Zubi and his friends had been following for 2 years.

I don't recall if Suárez was Luchos wish or not but my feeling tells me that it was Bartomeus idea first of all in order to remove the focus from Neymar's transfer and the fiasco that was last season. No manager would say no to Suárez either so Lucho obviously wanted him as well. The club did not buy Suárez for a bargain either. 85 million euros (some say 95 million euros) is not really a bargain or cheap nor does it take a genius to buy an already well-establish world class player.

On the other hand many of Txikis signings that later turned into icons/legends/great busy were bought for small amounts of money and from smaller clubs.

So you are taking away saying that Zubi has nothing to do with any players that other people at the club reccomened?

Can you tell me the difference then between Pep wanting Pique and Lucho wanting Rakitic?

Why does Txiki get more credit than Zubi in those situations? Why does he get some credit for Ronaldinho etc?

 

[KingMessi]

I'm sorry but how is Douglas "clearly" Zubi's signing? In that case shouldn't Henrique and Keirrison be "clearly" Txiki's signings?

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm sorry but how is Douglas "clearly" Zubi's signing? In that case shouldn't Henrique and Keirrison be "clearly" Txiki's signings?

Exactky thats what I am saying. The double standards are unreal.

Any player Lucho asked for Zubi gets no credit but then goes on to list players like Alves, Pique, Keita that were all players Pep asked for but no Txiki gets credit.

I am not even saying Zubi was great but these rules are ridiculous.

 

[Leo_Messi]

I'm sorry but how is Douglas "clearly" Zubi's signing? In that case shouldn't Henrique and Keirrison be "clearly" Txiki's signings?

Henrique and Keirrison were one of the few bad purchases that Txiki made. I never denied that. Please read post 575.

Zubi himself admitted that he had been following Douglas for 2 years during his presentation. Is that not enough proof to conclude that Douglas was NOT Lucho's idea? Lucho probably did not even know who he was!

Luchos preferred option to strengthen the right back/wing-back was Cuadrado. His preferred central defender was not Mathieu either but Marquinhos.

Vermaelen too was Zubi's signing and his team.

You already got your answers JamDav1982. Now try to read what is written to you and answer the questions that were asked to you instead of avoiding them as usual.