Andrés Iniesta

[Karnivore]

There certainly is an argument, Iniesta is more consistent, better technically and is more intelligent, Messi is a better athlete and he scores so obviously he gets the glory. Definitely doesn't mean he's a better footballer.

Messi is a considerably better footballer, he's widely cited as the best of all time now, even Maradona's own team-mates are crawling out saying it. As good as Iniesta is, over the past 20 years there have been many better than Iniesta - Henry, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, Xavi etc zZzz

You're either extremely bias towards Iniesta or dellusional if you think he's more consistent than Messi. This is exactly what i meant by him becoming so overrated. He's been cast into the shadows by two genuine greats that people all of a sudden feel the need to talk up his ability, and i'm not sure why, to be different maybe? It's got to be a wind up.

 

[Yannick03]

Messi is a considerably better footballer, he's widely cited as the best of all time now, even Maradona's own team-mates are crawling out saying it. As good as Iniesta is, over the past 20 years there have been many better than Iniesta - Henry, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, Xavi etc zZzz

You're either extremely bias towards Iniesta or dellusional if you think he's more consistent than Messi. This is exactly what i meant by him becoming so overrated. He's been cast into the shadows by two genuine greats that people all of a sudden feel the need to talk up his ability, and i'm not sure why, to be different maybe? It's got to be a wind up.

Wow, that is a bold statement.

Iniesta isn't overrated, he is in fact underrated by almost all non-Barcafans, and like you show even by Barcafans. For me, Iniesta is without a shadow of a doubt, the 2nd best footballer on this planet. And if there is one player out there, that can occasionally match Messi it is the Don. I don't think Iniesta is as consistent as Messi but when Iniesta has his day, he comes unbelievably close to Messi.

In my opinion, Iniesta is already an all-time legend. Later when I will think of this team, Iniesta will be the second best along with Xavi. I rate him higher than Cristiano Ronaldo and a little bit higher than Henry and perhaps on par with the real Ronaldo.

This man is a genius, he can do things only very very few in history could, no way he is overrated !

 

[Karnivore]

Wow, that is a bold statement.

Iniesta isn't overrated, he is in fact underrated by almost all non-Barcafans, and like you show even by Barcafans. For me, Iniesta is without a shadow of a doubt, the 2nd best footballer on this planet. And if there is one player out there, that can occasionally match Messi it is the Don. I don't think Iniesta is as consistent as Messi but when Iniesta has his day, he comes unbelievably close to Messi.

In my opinion, Iniesta is already an all-time legend. Later when I will think of this team, Iniesta will be the second best along with Xavi. I rate him higher than Cristiano Ronaldo and a little bit higher than Henry and perhaps on par with the real Ronaldo.

This man is a genius, he can do things only very very few in history could, no way he is overrated !

He most certainly is not under-rated! He finished third in the Ballon d'Or votes, he won the UEFA Player of the Year award despite doing nothing of note in last years CL (Compared to Messi who broke numerous records!). He won it for his Euro's performance where a large number of fans thought Pirlo was the stand out player. (However you want to view it, Pirlo was exceptional for a far less talented Italy team than we're used to seeing).

To Barcelona fans he's a legend (and rightly so might I add), but he is absoloutely no way near Messi's league, even on his best day. Last season he carried the Barcelona side all by himself, 73 goals is quite frankly obscene, and he was your best player against us, regardless of the penalty miss.

The second best player in the world is Cristiano Ronaldo, though the difference between him and Iniesta is minute. Ronaldo carries a far bigger goal threat and is physically better, and his passing is very underrated. Iniesta is the more intelligent of the two and better in tighter spaces. Ronaldo scored 60 goals last season, many of which were hugely important on Reals way to knocking Barcelona right off their perch. If it wasn't for the special talent of Messi he would be rightly considered the best in the world.

I know 99% of people here won't like it, but you ask the same question outside this forum and you'll find the same answer. Iniesta's a brilliant player, but to put him in the same bracket as Messi is flat out ridiculous.

 

[Yannick03]

He most certainly is not under-rated! He finished third in the Ballon d'Or votes, he won the UEFA Player of the Year award despite doing nothing of note in last years CL (Compared to Messi who broke numerous records!). He won it for his Euro's performance where a large number of fans thought Pirlo was the stand out player. (However you want to view it, Pirlo was exceptional for a far less talented Italy team than we're used to seeing).

To Barcelona fans he's a legend (and rightly so might I add), but he is absoloutely no way near Messi's league, even on his best day. Last season he carried the Barcelona side all by himself, 73 goals is quite frankly obscene, and he was your best player against us, regardless of the penalty miss.

The second best player in the world is Cristiano Ronaldo, though the difference between him and Iniesta is minute. Ronaldo carries a far bigger goal threat and is physically better, and his passing is very underrated. Iniesta is the more intelligent of the two and better in tighter spaces. Ronaldo scored 60 goals last season, many of which were hugely important on Reals way to knocking Barcelona right off their perch. If it wasn't for the special talent of Messi he would be rightly considered the best in the world and arguably the best since Maradona (That's another debate for another time).

I know 99% of people here won't like it, but you ask the same question outside this forum and you'll find the same answer. Iniesta's a brilliant player, but to put him in the same bracket as Messi is flat out ridiculous.

I don't put him on the same height as Messi, but he is the one that comes closest to him. Obviously, it is hard for Iniesta to compete against Ronaldo's stats but for me and I believe rightly so, Iniesta is just a better player. And unlike Pirlo, Iniesta made magic happen when Spain needed it the most, the final. It is different to compare players, but when I think of who is better, I believe the best is the one who can do the most unbelievable things with a ball. Iniesta can, Ronaldo can't. His passing isn't underrated, it is just nonexistent.

You actually prove a point that I made, Iniesta is underrated by the nonBarca public. For me he is slightly better than Ronaldo but it depends from season to season. Last season, Iniesta wasn't so good so I was surprised he was 3th for the Ballon d'Or but this season he has been superb and performed better than Ronaldo. He is a footballgenius and there aren't many around, you could say that is what makes me put him above Ronaldo : the ability to do things which are almost magical. Ronaldo is always the same, boring shit. Come inside and shoot, receive the ball and shoot immediately, take a freekick, just shoot and hope for the best. From him, you will never ever witness something genius.

But at the end of the day, it is just my opinion and I'm biased towards players who are genius.

 

[GiantKiller]

He won it for his Euro's performance where a large number of fans thought Pirlo was the stand out player. (However you want to view it, Pirlo was exceptional for a far less talented Italy team than we're used to seeing).

I've always thought that standing out in a team filled with world-class players is more difficult than being the most influential player in a team in which you're clearly the best. Not taking anything away from Pirlo. He's an absolute favourite of mine.

 

[Karnivore]

I don't put him on the same height as Messi, but he is the one that comes closest to him. Obviously, it is hard for Iniesta to compete against Ronaldo's stats but for me and I believe rightly so, Iniesta is just a better player. And unlike Pirlo, Iniesta made magic happen when Spain needed it the most, the final. It is different to compare players, but when I think of who is better, I believe the best is the one who can do the most unbelievable things with a ball. Iniesta can, Ronaldo can't. His passing isn't underrated, it is just nonexistent.

You actually prove a point that I made, Iniesta is underrated by the nonBarca public. For me he is slightly better than Ronaldo but it depends from season to season. Last season, Iniesta wasn't so good so I was surprised he was 3th for the Ballon d'Or but this season he has been superb and performed better than Ronaldo. He is a footballgenius and there aren't many around, you could say that is what makes me put him above Ronaldo : the ability to do things which are almost magical. Ronaldo is always the same, boring shit. Come inside and shoot, receive the ball and shoot immediately, take a freekick, just shoot and hope for the best. From him, you will never ever witness something genius.

But at the end of the day, it is just my opinion and I'm biased towards players who are genius.

In terms of technical ability he is the only one who comes 'close' to him, but not to the point you can say he's in an around Messi's level, cause he really isn't. Iniesta can dribble his way out of trouble very well, and i'm not disputing how good he may/may not be, but Messi's more cut and thrust - he has the remarkable ability to run at such high speeds with the ball and beat players at will to the same degree as Maradona once did (even more so), and the speed of thought to play clever one twos, and execute the passes as he does it, it's extraordinary.

Iniesta's regarded as third best because that's exactly what he is. The Barcelona fans will see that as a slight on him, yet at the same time will say he's better than Ronaldo - who's underrating who then? You yourself just admitted you were surprised he finished 3rd for the Ballon d'Or. Last season Ronaldo scored 60 goals and played the most pivital role in clawing back the title from Barcelona, and not only that, he has been averaging a goal a game since he joined Real four years ago. He also plays in a side who are geared to get the best out of him, just like Barcelona do with Messi - each team builds around those two for a very good reason, they're spectacular players who produce the goods for their teams on a regular basis.

The supporting cast will never get the same recognitiion, it is what it is. Ozil was brilliant last season, an assist machine, and so was Alonso dictating play from the middle of the pitch - yet unfortunately neither mentioned in the same breath as Ronaldo. Same applies to Iniesta and Xavi i'm afraid. Two fantastic players who will remain in the shadows of the greatest player to grace our game.

 

[Yannick03]

In terms of technical ability he is the only one who comes 'close' to him, but not to the point you can say he's in an around Messi's level, cause he really isn't. Iniesta can dribble his way out of trouble very well, and i'm not disputing how good he may/may not be, but Messi's more cut and thrust - he has the remarkable ability to run at such high speeds with the ball and beat players at will to the same degree as Maradona once did (even more so), and the speed of thought to play clever one twos, and execute the passes as he does it, it's extraordinary.

Iniesta's regarded as third best because that's exactly what he is. The Barcelona fans will see that as a slight on him, yet at the same time will say he's better than Ronaldo - who's underrating who then? You yourself just admitted you were surprised he finished 3rd for the Ballon d'Or. Last season Ronaldo scored 60 goals and played the most pivital role in clawing back the title from Barcelona, and not only that, he has been averaging a goal a game since he joined Real four years ago. He also plays in a side who are geared to get the best out of him, just like Barcelona do with Messi - each team builds around those two for a very good reason, they're spectacular players who produce the goods for their teams on a regular basis.

The supporting cast will never get the same recognitiion, it is what it is. Ozil was brilliant last season, an assist machine, and so was Alonso dictating play from the middle of the pitch - yet unfortunately neither mentioned in the same breath as Ronaldo. Same applies to Iniesta and Xavi i'm afraid. Two fantastic players who will remain in the shadows of the greatest player to grace our game.

You're probably right about the supporting cast. When it comes to Iniesta vs Ronaldo, it probably will be a subjective vote that says who is the best while Messi is just undeniably the best.

 

[Karnivore]

Agreed.

 

[Ursegor]

Sigh. Football doesn't start in the opponent's box. Arguing with the amount of goals Ronaldo and Messi are scoring when talking about greatness is so pointless, I thought everyone knew that by now. How do Beckenbauer, Zidane, Platini, Laudrup, Scirea, Baresi and the likes even fit in into the "greatest of all time" category? After all statistically Robin van Persie is outscoring those players comfortably. How many goals do Messi and Ronaldo score outside Barcelona and Madrid without their so called supporting cast? How many goals has the greatest player of all time scored in the last Copa America and World Cup combined? I'll help you out: 0. How many goals has Villa scored in his last World and Euro Cup? I'll help you out again: 9. Villa with proper supporting cast >>> Messi without proper supporting cast. That's how football works. It remains a team sport, even though the sport has been Justin Bieberized by a shitstorm of 12 year old plastic fans in recent years who go to the hairdresser to get a Ronaldo fauxhawk. Let's not pretend that Messi and Ronaldo are the only cause of the utter domination which Madrid and particularly Barcelona are showcasting right now. They just tend to be the most talented forwards of this generation (although I'm not even sure. Let Ronaldo and Falcao swap teams and see again after 1 year who is considered greater. Falcao is averaging 1 goals per game for Atletico Madrid. Can Ronaldo do the same in that team?). That doesn't diminish the work of other players in other positions. Ronaldo might be considered up there with Iniesta once he wins 3 CLs, 2 ECs and 1 World Cup. After all the man himself admits that team trophies are the most important ones, amiright?

I'm 100 % certain Xavi and Iniesta will be remembered in higher regards in 20 years than Ronaldo. People will remember iconic performances on the biggest stages. Iniesta's World Cup goal or Xavi's EC final performance. The fact that they were the architects of the most successful Barcelona and Spain national team of all time. Not Ronaldo's hattricks against Celta fucking Vigo or Deportivo La Coruna.

U mad now? U better be. One does not simply come into Iniesta's thread and then spout that he can't be mentioned in the same breath as Cristiano Ronaldo.

 

[Deco 20]

Messi is a considerably better footballer, he's widely cited as the best of all time now, even Maradona's own team-mates are crawling out saying it. As good as Iniesta is, over the past 20 years there have been many better than Iniesta - Henry, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cristiano Ronaldo, Zinedine Zidane, Xavi etc zZzz

Not sure I agree.

Ronaldo and Ronaldinho definitely had higher peaks, but their carreers were cut short by injury and/or lack of focus. Henry wasn't better, although possibly on about the same level. Zidane and Xavi are on the same level. However I do rate Cristiano slightly above him.

 

[Deco 20]

He most certainly is not under-rated! He finished third in the Ballon d'Or votes, he won the UEFA Player of the Year award despite doing nothing of note in last years CL (Compared to Messi who broke numerous records!). He won it for his Euro's performance where a large number of fans thought Pirlo was the stand out player. (However you want to view it, Pirlo was exceptional for a far less talented Italy team than we're used to seeing).

To Barcelona fans he's a legend (and rightly so might I add), but he is absoloutely no way near Messi's league, even on his best day. Last season he carried the Barcelona side all by himself, 73 goals is quite frankly obscene, and he was your best player against us, regardless of the penalty miss.

The second best player in the world is Cristiano Ronaldo, though the difference between him and Iniesta is minute. Ronaldo carries a far bigger goal threat and is physically better, and his passing is very underrated. Iniesta is the more intelligent of the two and better in tighter spaces. Ronaldo scored 60 goals last season, many of which were hugely important on Reals way to knocking Barcelona right off their perch. If it wasn't for the special talent of Messi he would be rightly considered the best in the world.

I know 99% of people here won't like it, but you ask the same question outside this forum and you'll find the same answer. Iniesta's a brilliant player, but to put him in the same bracket as Messi is flat out ridiculous.

Agreed with this post except for the part about the euros. Pirlo was far from the only good performer in that Italy side. Buffon, Barzagli, De Rossi (especially), Montolovi (vs Germany) and Balotelli (vs Germany) all did very well.

 

[Karnivore]

Not sure I agree.

Ronaldo and Ronaldinho definitely had higher peaks, but their carreers were cut short by injury and/or lack of focus. Henry wasn't better, although possibly on about the same level. Zidane and Xavi are on the same level. However I do rate Cristiano slightly above him.

Ronaldo still produced great things even with two injuries that would have ended anyone elses career. The hat-trick at Old Trafford was special, racking up as many goals as he did in the World Cup was no mean feat either. The only sad thing about him is he didn't go on to become what Messi is currently doing. Ronaldinho is an obvious one i'd have thought, and i'm amazed you think Iniesta was better/same level as Henry - now he was special. In fact, i'd rate him ahead of Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. He was so unfortunate not to win a Ballon d'Or after what he achieved with Arsenal. Everything about him was genius - quicker than almost everyone else, best finisher in Europe (at the time), strong as an ox (He shook the great Desailly off many a time with ease in his pomp), a great creater of goals (he's in and around Giggs and Lampard in terms of assists in a much shorter period) and he could tear teams apart at will.

I always got the feeling Henry was never appreciated as much abroad. At the time he was doing it in the strongest league in Europe (which it now isn't) and was the brightest spark of an exceptional Arsenal side. The true sign of Henry's genius was what he did in 2005-06. Arsenal were on a horrible decline with most the 'invincibles' on their way out and a very inexperienced Fabregas shoehorned into the side - and he grabbed that team by the scruff of the neck and took them to the European final, with some superb performances along the way (Bernabeu anyone?). The final itself was a bit of a let down, the two best players in the world at the time failed to shine but it showed just how great Henry was. I feared him more than I did anyone else we encountered, even with Mourinho's impregnable defence.

Zidane lacked the consistency of Iniesta but had a higher top level. When he turned it on he was unplayable. Xavi's only really gotten the recognition he deserved since Guardiola took over. Before then he was acknowledged as a very good player but not to the extent or praise he currently gets, coincidentally it was really when Iniesta grew into a world class player - difficult for a Barcelona fan to choose, but i'm willing to wager most would say Xavi was/is a bit more important to the team than Iniesta.

 

[DavidVillano1]

I always got the feeling Henry was never appreciated as much abroad. At the time he was doing it in the strongest league in Europe (which it now isn't) and was the brightest spark of an exceptional Arsenal side.

I'll be honest I probably didn't appreciate Henry as much during his period at Arsenal, although saying that how many of the eight seasons at Arsenal was the EPL the strongest in Europe?

It's a tricky debate as you need to factor in many things, some people use the UCL as valid reference, I think that's too simple and it's impossible to base the standard of the league on the basis of one European competition which can be a lottery at times. However if the argument was based on Champions League football, I would state the EPL was only the strongest in two(possibly three) of those eight years Henry was at Arsenal, 03-04(debatable), 04-05 and 06-07. Then you must factor in that 06-07 season Henry only managed 17 appearances in the league.

 

[Karnivore]

Rightly or wrongly, the Premiership has always been regarded as the place to play the highest level of football - and it has been up until the past two years or so, now you're seeing the likes of Malaga and Atletico make a real stand in Europe alongside Valencia, Barcelona and Real Madrid. Bilbao embarassed Man Utd last season too. Sadly you'll still find many English fans totally disregard the superiority of the Spanish League and arguably the Bundesliga, but for a very long period it was the best, and it most certainly was when Henry was at Arsenal. As much as people like to slag Abramovich off, he actually helped raise the bar of the league. Mourinho took us to a completely new level in 2004/05, and soon after Man Utd responded by winning three titles on the trot and reaching two Champions League finals, probably the turning point where La Liga started to become a better league.

 

[DavidVillano1]

Not sure where the notion comes from that the Premiership was the highest level of football?!

What about Deportivo, Villarreal, Sevilla and Valencia in the late 90s, early mid 00s???

99-00 - All Spanish final, three Spanish teams in semi-final's with Bayern.
00-01 - Valencia in the final, two Spanish teams with Leeds/Bayern in SFs
01-02 - Deportivo knocked Arsenal out in group stages, more teams in knockouts and two in SFs and Real won the tournament.
02-03 - Serie A dominated latter stages, only Man Utd in knockouts, three La Liga teams.
03-04 - Porto vs Monaco final, pretty even throughout
04-05 - English dominance
05-06 - Arsenal only English team to make QFs, two Spanish in SFs, Barcelona champions
06-07 - Without doubt English dominance.

In the same period, Uefa cup was won more times by Spanish clubs(3 times) to England's one. Would love to know the reasons why the Premiership was the top league during this period?! The performances in Europe don't seem to back it up. Certainly 04-09 it was English dominance in the top tournament but that was at the end of Henry's term at Arsenal.