GiantKiller
New member
Some examination for the consistency argument few pages ago.
Opta performance index (based on over 200 different statistics) this season La Liga.
Where as Messi and Xavi play consistently in deviation of 2, between 8-10, and 6-8 respectively, Iniesta plays in deviation of 4, between 6-10. And then you can also add his frequent injuries to equation also.
And I believe this actually is one of his more consistent seasons lately. Iniesta is definitely one of the best when on top of his game, but consistency isn't one of his strong points really.
I actually thought that he was more consistent in the 2010-2011 season. Besides, you can't just come to a conclusion by looking at the chart of only one season and by going with what you believe. Just saying.
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Irish_Cules
New member
I think Iniesta is very consistent. Even in the games that he doesn't play so well he is the player changes our possession game into an attack with his dribbling. This brings a sense of urgency to our attacks that is sorely missed when he doesn't play.
Deco 20
Scandinavian 101
Galacticos, without talent? The amount of talent was so noticeable Zidane paled in comparison.
footyfan
Calma, calma
I rate Iniesta and Zidane at the same level. They're so similar - both amazing dribblers despite lacking the pace of a forward/winger, great vision, big game players, consistent/inconsistent in bits, bald.
I think most people will rate Zidane over Iniesta because he seemed more individualistic while Iniesta is part of Barca/Spain - 2 of the greatest teams ever (and by team I mean game play is based on total teamwork) even though I feel it's utter bullsh*t because only greatly skilled players can be part of such great teams.\
As for Henry/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho, you can only compare them with Messi because they're all forwards but tbf I feel there's no comparison there either.
I think most people will rate Zidane over Iniesta because he seemed more individualistic while Iniesta is part of Barca/Spain - 2 of the greatest teams ever (and by team I mean game play is based on total teamwork) even though I feel it's utter bullsh*t because only greatly skilled players can be part of such great teams.\
As for Henry/Ronaldo/Ronaldinho, you can only compare them with Messi because they're all forwards but tbf I feel there's no comparison there either.
J
jiopi
Guest
It's the same team. Spain is rather poor mans Barcelona, but it plays in easier environment (international football).
jamrock
Senior Member
Injuries have been a constant problem in Iniesta's career but look back over the last three tournaments, all of them won by Spain, and his influence is startling. He won three man of the match awards at Euro 2012, more than anyone else. There were another three at the World Cup, including the final. And one at Euro 2008. In 18 games across three tournaments – more than any other player – he has been man of the match seven times. Over a third of his games. (Sid Lowe)
Not just consistent, consistently brilliant
And these aren't stats these are facts
Not just consistent, consistently brilliant
And these aren't stats these are facts
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DavidVillano1
New member
Personally I think it's too simple to base arguments on trophies, individual awards, man of the match awards or statistics in each scenario. Yes they are relevant but not proof or fact.
Here's my gripe with 'man of the match awards'
Iniesta was given man of the match awards in both the World Cup 2010 and Euro 2012 finals, in my view he didn't deserve those awards. Xavi was absolutely out of this world at the Euro's final and Alba was outstanding as well, whilst Busquets as per usual didn't get the credit for his man of the match performance at the World Cup 10 final. Iniesta get's the plaudits due to his goal, but Sergio ran the show that night. Can't remember what website I viewed it, but there was this fantastic analysis of his performance that night, one of the best articles I've seen in a while.
That's two out of seven that he didn't deserve in my eyes, then there's another 4 that's up for debate as well. Was Iniesta better than Villa against Chile? Better than Xavi against Russia? Did he deserve the man of the match award in the 1-1 draw with Italy?
So many variables, people go on about how Uefa and Fifa get many things wrong, but man of the match awards according to Sid Lowe are legit and valid?
Here's my gripe with 'man of the match awards'
Iniesta was given man of the match awards in both the World Cup 2010 and Euro 2012 finals, in my view he didn't deserve those awards. Xavi was absolutely out of this world at the Euro's final and Alba was outstanding as well, whilst Busquets as per usual didn't get the credit for his man of the match performance at the World Cup 10 final. Iniesta get's the plaudits due to his goal, but Sergio ran the show that night. Can't remember what website I viewed it, but there was this fantastic analysis of his performance that night, one of the best articles I've seen in a while.
That's two out of seven that he didn't deserve in my eyes, then there's another 4 that's up for debate as well. Was Iniesta better than Villa against Chile? Better than Xavi against Russia? Did he deserve the man of the match award in the 1-1 draw with Italy?
So many variables, people go on about how Uefa and Fifa get many things wrong, but man of the match awards according to Sid Lowe are legit and valid?
jamrock
Senior Member
Man of the match according to those who watched that game and select these things, not Sid Lowe.
Fact is a injury free iniesta is as consistent as they come, and not just consistent consistently brilliant.
Wish I had my laptop and not this tablet, because their is such much I want to address, but typing is too difficult.
Fact is a injury free iniesta is as consistent as they come, and not just consistent consistently brilliant.
Wish I had my laptop and not this tablet, because their is such much I want to address, but typing is too difficult.
DavidVillano1
New member
Never meant Sid Lowe picks them 
My point was about Uefa and Fifa choosing man of the match winners, but that was actually wrong anyway, totally slipped my mind that from 2010 people could vote for man of the match awards. That makes it even more absurd to base around Iniesta being consistent. Fans also voted Stoch the best goal of 2012......
Wouldn't trust fans at all. Unless you believe that Iniesta was better than Xavi in that 2012 final?
My point was about Uefa and Fifa choosing man of the match winners, but that was actually wrong anyway, totally slipped my mind that from 2010 people could vote for man of the match awards. That makes it even more absurd to base around Iniesta being consistent. Fans also voted Stoch the best goal of 2012......
Wouldn't trust fans at all. Unless you believe that Iniesta was better than Xavi in that 2012 final?
J
jiopi
Guest
Iniesta was maybe the MoM Euro final but he was in no way the best player.
Opta rating Euro12 final:
1. Xavi 9.38
12. Iniesta 7.01
I would like to hear the argument why Iniesta was the best player of final...
Opta rating Euro12 final:
1. Xavi 9.38
12. Iniesta 7.01
I would like to hear the argument why Iniesta was the best player of final...
Ursegor
World Champion
OPTA aka Whoscored.com is the worst thing that has happened to football in recent years. Or more specifically the fact that now people use it to check Arteta's and Leon Britton's passing accuracies to start making comparisons with Xavi. I'll give you an example why OPTA is meaningless and football can't be quantified, no matter how hard you try.
In our last game against Atletico Madrid, Messi had his quietest performance of the season. He literally popped up to score 1 goal (the 3-1) and that was it. He was so quiet that LeoMe55i10 on YouTube didn't even bother making a match compilation for him as he usually does. The fact that Atletico gave up at 1-3 down and Messi capitalized on a careless Godin backheel pass in the 88th minute however resulted in a brace and a OPTA rating of 9.1 (MOTM). But if we want to see how the Barcaforum members (40+ voters) saw the game, let's just take a look at the MOTM thread.
We'll further realize that even Messi's biggest fanboy didn't give Messi the MOTM award:
But according to OPTA Messi was easily the MOTM with a rating of 9.1. Adriano's rating was 8.3.
In fact if we take a look at OPTA ratings, Pedro Leon had a better season than Xavi so far in La Liga.
Pedro Leon: 7.38
Xavi: 7.33
If we look at overall team statistics, OPTA rates:
Barcelona in La Liga with: 7.16
Real Madrid in La Liga with: 7.02.
If we look at reality there is a 16 point game.
If we look at the overall Euro 2012 rankings, we see:
Steven Gerrard: 7.75
Andrea Pirlo: 7.62
Why did OPTA give Xavi such a high rating and not Iniesta? Because Iniesta's defense-splitting throughball for the opening goal to Fabregas who layed it back to Silva didn't count as an official assist and therefore no "bonus points" statistically. It didn't even count as a "key pass" according to OPTA. Neither did the countless times he dribbled, created space, made the correct decisions etc. Instead Torres got a higher OPTA rating (7.6) for his goal and assist in that game. Statistics.
In our last game against Atletico Madrid, Messi had his quietest performance of the season. He literally popped up to score 1 goal (the 3-1) and that was it. He was so quiet that LeoMe55i10 on YouTube didn't even bother making a match compilation for him as he usually does. The fact that Atletico gave up at 1-3 down and Messi capitalized on a careless Godin backheel pass in the 88th minute however resulted in a brace and a OPTA rating of 9.1 (MOTM). But if we want to see how the Barcaforum members (40+ voters) saw the game, let's just take a look at the MOTM thread.
We'll further realize that even Messi's biggest fanboy didn't give Messi the MOTM award:
1. Adriano - Best game in Barca shirt.
2. Messi
3. Busquets
HoM for the whole team.
But according to OPTA Messi was easily the MOTM with a rating of 9.1. Adriano's rating was 8.3.
In fact if we take a look at OPTA ratings, Pedro Leon had a better season than Xavi so far in La Liga.
Pedro Leon: 7.38
Xavi: 7.33
If we look at overall team statistics, OPTA rates:
Barcelona in La Liga with: 7.16
Real Madrid in La Liga with: 7.02.
If we look at reality there is a 16 point game.
If we look at the overall Euro 2012 rankings, we see:
Steven Gerrard: 7.75
Andrea Pirlo: 7.62
Why did OPTA give Xavi such a high rating and not Iniesta? Because Iniesta's defense-splitting throughball for the opening goal to Fabregas who layed it back to Silva didn't count as an official assist and therefore no "bonus points" statistically. It didn't even count as a "key pass" according to OPTA. Neither did the countless times he dribbled, created space, made the correct decisions etc. Instead Torres got a higher OPTA rating (7.6) for his goal and assist in that game. Statistics.
J
jiopi
Guest
OPTA-stats are actually great tool when comparing performances because they are based on something concrete. They usually spot on, at least on my subjective level.
Lets go back to the Euro 12 final and compare these 3 players
Rating, Goals + Assists, Passes, Pass %, Key Passes, Throughballs, Dribbles, Dispossessed
1. Xavi 9.34 - 0+2, 86, 94%, 5, 2, 1, 1
2. Alba 8.01 - 1+0, 75, 92%, 0, 0, 3, 1
12. Iniesta 7.01 - 0+0, 71, 83%, 0, 2, 1, 2
No, Iniesta's throughball is calculated in the rating, as a throughball, the OPTA rating is based over 200 collective statistics. Iniesta dribbled once past a player, which is also counted on the rating.
Now I will ask again, what kind of beautiful magic Iniesta produced that warrants him the MoM before Xavi or Alba?
Lets go back to the Euro 12 final and compare these 3 players
Rating, Goals + Assists, Passes, Pass %, Key Passes, Throughballs, Dribbles, Dispossessed
1. Xavi 9.34 - 0+2, 86, 94%, 5, 2, 1, 1
2. Alba 8.01 - 1+0, 75, 92%, 0, 0, 3, 1
12. Iniesta 7.01 - 0+0, 71, 83%, 0, 2, 1, 2
No, Iniesta's throughball is calculated in the rating, as a throughball, the OPTA rating is based over 200 collective statistics. Iniesta dribbled once past a player, which is also counted on the rating.
Now I will ask again, what kind of beautiful magic Iniesta produced that warrants him the MoM before Xavi or Alba?
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