Andrés Iniesta

[Karnivore]

And what has Ronaldos 'individual' success contributed to his teams success ? Consistency doesn't make you a better player than someone other, it's not like Iniesta doesn't perform for 5 games in a row.

Two Champions Leagues and Four titles. Ronaldo's brilliance was a key factor in Real overcoming the apparent greatest team of all time. No need to speak of his brilliance in the Premiership either. After that 2006 World Cup he grew into something quite extraordinary and broke our strangle hold on the league title under Mourinho, a period where no one came close to us and records still stand to this day.

As far as consistency goes, him and Messi are miles ahead of everyone else. Even when they have underwhelming games they still prove decisive. Iniesta clearly has the talent to be something like that, but times running out for him to show it. He's 30 next year, Ronaldo and Messi have been doing it since they were teenagers.

 

[Flavia]

Two Champions Leagues and Four titles.

2? if this is about cr, he only has one.

 

[Karnivore]

Getting ahead of myself, this season he's making it two. Stand out player in the CL this season, and likely to beat Messi's record along the way. If Real win it he's taking back the Ballon d'Or (sadly)

 

[Yannick03]

Two Champions Leagues and Four titles. Ronaldo's brilliance was a key factor in Real overcoming the apparent greatest team of all time. No need to speak of his brilliance in the Premiership either. After that 2006 World Cup he grew into something quite extraordinary and broke our strangle hold on the league title under Mourinho, a period where no one came close to us and records still stand to this day.

As far as consistency goes, him and Messi are miles ahead of everyone else. Even when they have underwhelming games they still prove decisive. Iniesta clearly has the talent to be something like that, but times running out for him to show it. He's 30 next year, Ronaldo and Messi have been doing it since they were teenagers.

Since when does Ronaldo has 2 Champions Leagues ? Iniesta has 3 and more league titles and guess who one the most since Ronaldo came to Madrid 4 years ago ? He has only been able to snatch 3 titles so far out of the hands of us. Iniesta was vital in the 2006 final when he came on at half-time, was vital in 2009 when overcoming Ronaldos Man Utd when he was nonexistent and was superb in 2011. Scored the winner in 2010 WC-final, player of the tournament 2012 and key player in 2008. Seriously, Iniesta is double the legend Ronaldo will ever be.

 

[Mr Hulot]

Two Champions Leagues and Four titles. Ronaldo's brilliance was a key factor in Real overcoming the apparent greatest team of all time. No need to speak of his brilliance in the Premiership either. After that 2006 World Cup he grew into something quite extraordinary and broke our strangle hold on the league title under Mourinho, a period where no one came close to us and records still stand to this day.

As far as consistency goes, him and Messi are miles ahead of everyone else. Even when they have underwhelming games they still prove decisive. Iniesta clearly has the talent to be something like that, but times running out for him to show it. He's 30 next year, Ronaldo and Messi have been doing it since they were teenagers.

Ronaldo has won 1 Champions League title, of course.
It is the classic debate stats vs overall performance and in my opinion stats matter very little in football because it is 11 vs 11 unlike let's say basket where you can surely draw some conclusions. But it is the same debate all over the forum. Thiago vs Cesc or Cesc vs Xavi,Iniesta.
I guess another good example of that is the Gomez vs Mandzukic. Gomez can score like a machine, but it is apparent that Mandzukic is the better player and he is one of the reasons that Bayern plays better this year.

 

[JamDav1982]

Ronaldo has won 1 Champions League title, of course.
It is the classic debate stats vs overall performance and in my opinion stats matter very little in football because it is 11 vs 11 unlike let's say basket where you can surely draw some conclusions. But it is the same debate all over the forum. Thiago vs Cesc or Cesc vs Xavi,Iniesta.
I guess another good example of that is the Gomez vs Mandzukic. Gomez can score like a machine, but it is apparent that Mandzukic is the better player and he is one of the reasons that Bayern plays better this year.

If stats dont matter that much and is about a players ability to influence a team then surely you must think Ronaldo deserves to be the current world player of the year ahead of Messi?

 

[Ode to Django]

Mata is a fucking great player, I have absoloutely no time for people cunting him off in comparisons with Iniesta. What Mata is doing for us right now is nothing short of incredible. 18 goals and 30 assists in a horrendous season by our massively high standards since 2003, he's the closest to producing the equivalent numbers for a creative midfielder to a Messi/Ronaldo. Even in Xavi's best season he never managed the same goal output despite getting similar number of assists (in a considerably better team too).

Mata doesn't quite have Iniesta's elegance on the ball - but he's closer to Iniesta than Iniesta is to Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo. On the subject of Zidane, it's the exact same here. He personfied elegance on the ball, yet as a creator and scorer, his numbers were weak, and he lacked the consistency to ever be considered better than Ronaldo in the same time frame, even more so after what Ronaldo did after two horrendous injuries.

That's all that matters, Right?

 

[big_man]

If stats dont matter that much and is about a players ability to influence a team then surely you must think Ronaldo deserves to be the current world player of the year ahead of Messi?

Eh? Messi dragged a clearly underperforming team to within touching distance of a Madrid team that was at its peak last season, until the game at the Nou camp the gap was 5 points. How else do you define ability to influence a team?

 

[Karnivore]

Ronaldo has won 1 Champions League title, of course.
It is the classic debate stats vs overall performance and in my opinion stats matter very little in football because it is 11 vs 11 unlike let's say basket where you can surely draw some conclusions. But it is the same debate all over the forum. Thiago vs Cesc or Cesc vs Xavi,Iniesta.
I guess another good example of that is the Gomez vs Mandzukic. Gomez can score like a machine, but it is apparent that Mandzukic is the better player and he is one of the reasons that Bayern plays better this year.

No, it's the myopic view every youngster has towards football. If you're skillful and entertaining enough that automatically makes you a better player.

The likes of Ronaldo and Messi score so much and (in Messis case) assist so much is because they have the more underrated attributes of the game. Their off the ball movement, intelligence, awareness on the pitch etc - it puts them on a completely different platform.

Gomez scores so much because as a striker, or a poacher in his case, he's considerably better than Mandzukic.

 

[Yannick03]

No, it's the myopic view every youngster has towards football. If you're skillful and entertaining enough that automatically makes you a better player.

The likes of Ronaldo and Messi score so much and (in Messis case) assist so much is because they have the more underrated attributes of the game. Their off the ball movement, intelligence, awareness on the pitch etc - it puts them on a completely different platform.

Gomez scores so much because as a striker, or a poacher in his case, he's considerably better than Mandzukic.

And that's the myopic view that when you are effective and only concentrate on stats you're a good player. Good luck forming a team with 11 of such players.

 

[Mr Hulot]

If stats dont matter that much and is about a players ability to influence a team then surely you must think Ronaldo deserves to be the current world player of the year ahead of Messi?

First of all, I don't understand why so many people obsess about individual awards, as the game is a team sport.
Secondly, the main criterion for such awards is the individual performance. But in the way I watch football, I would vote Messi ahead of Ronaldo every time, even if they had scored and assisted exactly the same amount of goals, because I find him a more complete and enjoyable player. He dribbles, passes and thinks better than every other player in the world and he deservedly wins Ballon d' Or for four years now and will continue to win it, because he is simply the best player in so many aspects.

 

[big_man]

No, it's the myopic view every youngster has towards football. If you're skillful and entertaining enough that automatically makes you a better player.

The likes of Ronaldo and Messi score so much and (in Messis case) assist so much is because they have the more underrated attributes of the game. Their off the ball movement, intelligence, awareness on the pitch etc - it puts them on a completely different platform.

Gomez scores so much because as a striker, or a poacher in his case, he's considerably better than Mandzukic.

You talk about myopic view, then bang on about goals and assists like this an ultimate team competition on FIFA 13. Very simplistic way of looking at football.

 

[Mr Hulot]

And that's the myopic view that when you are effective and only concentrate on stats you're a good player. Good luck forming a team with 11 of such players.

You talk about myopic view, then bang on about goals and assists like this an ultimate team competition on FIFA 13. Very simplistic way of looking at football.

Thank you guys..

 

[big_man]

Getting ahead of myself, this season he's making it two. Stand out player in the CL this season, and likely to beat Messi's record along the way. If Real win it he's taking back the Ballon d'Or (sadly)

And what the heck does this even mean?
There's no way in hell you would have watched this Champions league campaign and say that Ronaldo has been the stand out player of this competition.

 

[jamrock]

karnivore raises again