Andrés Iniesta

Ursegor

World Champion
In that case, you're free to ignore the partially subjective player rating system whoscored employs.

I will say that stats without context are not very useful. However, the fact that people baulk when an argument is augmented by stats is just :thumbdown:

Stats are cool until people start WUMing with stuff like "Fabregas dispossessed 1.4 times per game vs. Iniesta 1.6 times per game => Fabregas is better at ball retention than Iniesta" or start creating point tables by subtracting Messi's goals and then claim that Barcelona would be a midtable team without Messi, ignoring the simplest logic that Barcelona wouldn't play with 10 men over a whole season. Certain people are renowned for doing just that so I'm usually not interested in joining a serious discussion with them.
 
J

jiopi

Guest
Stats are cool until people start WUMing with stuff like "Fabregas dispossessed 1.4 times per game vs. Iniesta 1.6 times per game => Fabregas is better at ball retention than Iniesta" or start creating point tables by subtracting Messi's goals and then claim that Barcelona would be a midtable team without Messi, ignoring the simplest logic that Barcelona wouldn't play with 10 men over a whole season. Certain people are renowned for doing just that so I'm usually not interested in joining a serious discussion with them.
When looking dispossession stats, you have to also relate it to dribbling statistic because they are related to one another. Also the subtracting method used doesn't tell how the team would have played without the player, but how the player played with the team.

I think I now no why you don't look statistics, you don't fully understand them.
 

Jaguar

Flair Trait
Barcastuff
"Iniesta, Xavi and Busquets completed more passes (514) than Tahiti (437) in the Confederations Cup group stage."


:iniesta: :xavi: :busquets:
 

Elite-BkD

New member
I've an opinion, based on every Barca match the past 4-5 years, and that is backed up by stats. Much better opinion than looking 9 second clip from youtube and making a revelation based on it, I think.

The depth and complexity statistical analyses of a match would have to reach to paint a vivid picture of the different strengths and weaknesses of a player is absolutely off the charts, whereas you're pretending that one or statistics actually support your argument over another, which of course is nonsense. Putting a match on and tuning in every so often to drool over the prospect of a spectacular dribble or solo goal is different from carefully paying attention and analyzing a match, obviously. All I'm pointing out is that your comments kinda suggest that you probably do more of the former than the latter. I'm not really going out of my way to be rude or arrogant here, I just feel like I have to be pretty clear and emphatic because of the outrageous drivel you're spouting.

Go a little easy. It's not absolute MADNESS that he doesn't notice Iniesta's defensive qualities. I mean it's not what initially comes to mind when you think of Iniesta, but something you'd learn through careful observation. Not noticing Iniesta's passing or dribbling skills would be madness, ignoring something that's blatantly obvious. But you can't be that harsh on someone when they don't notice something that is often overlooked.

Overlooking that facet of his game is one thing, pretending to understand very well that he's not good in that area quite another. Madness.

Ridiculous post. You're arrogantly assuming that Person A only forms opinions based on stats (when in fact it could quite possibly be the other way around - stats are simply evidence to provide evidence for an opinion). While Person B (such as yourself) remember every moment from every game and has only his words and possibly biased memory to support his opinion.
You may very well be right wrt Iniesta - I think you are - Iniesta is definitely not ordinary defensively but he's not great either. Your condescending tone, on the other hand, is just cringe-worthy

The only assumption I was really operating under was that the little sample of his expression that I was responding to at the time was a fair representation of a greater whole, which is pretty common practice and makes it much easier to respond quickly and to the point, so your whole discussion of my judgement Person A which hinges on the word 'only' in order to unfairly emphasize how extreme and harsh my assessment was seems pretty poor. And am I right in assuming that given time to think it over you'd be happy to forget that whole Person B nonsense because of the incredible hyperbole, not to mention the fact that it happens to miss the point all together?
Anyways, of course Iniesta would not make a particularly great defender, but may I remind you that this all started because a man praised Iniesta for positional intelligence and the ability to win balls back and was then called absurd by a poster who went on to explain that Iniesta at that game. The man's concept of controlling space and ability to anticipate the development of play is second to none; of course he's great in that regard, and of course an assertion that this is all absurd and he's average in that area deserves a small showing of contempt.
 

mixer

New member
Iniesta has completed most dribbles (11) in the Confederations Cup group stage. Chelsea's Mikel has second most (10) [via @castrolfootball]

Where are you, NeyNey?
 

Alik

Moderator
His dribbling, ball control and passing is amazing. The one thing that really weighs him down sometimes is his shooting.
 
F

Flavia

Guest
I don't think he was at his best today. He was well maked the first half, lost some balls that originated italy's counters.
 

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