His first start (?) vs spurs is probably still his best game. I think he looked a lot better in the first half of the season. His best quality till now has been his "anti-pres play" which includes a variety of skills it self, but I hoped he would be more dominant in possession face than he has been, in highlights for gremio he looked good at it, and he also looked good at it at times in the start of the season, he also made more tackles, interceptions and yes in general looked way more fluid and lively. so i don't really know why his level has dropped; injuries, tiredness, tactics - hard to tell. He has only played 1648 min this season, and if fox sports is to believed he only played 7 games in 2018 prior to his barca transfer. It might look like he isn't a player to play non-stop like eg. Xavi, which would be a shame. I hope our medical staff works on his fitness / injury. Here was once a Gremio-supporter in the forum, forgot his name if anyone could tag him? Wanted to ask if he had similar fitness problems in gremio.
Arthur
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
- Start date
Messigician
Senior Member
Nothing wrong with having his minutes managed, get a grip
SeloBarca
Senior Member
When there are other midfielders that are playing much worse, yes there is.
Its not unlikely that Valverde takes medical reviews into account. Arthur is the only midfielder on the pitch who has suffered from injuries this season, and last season for gremio, while Sergio and Rakitic both are well-known for almost never being injured. You wouldn't want our best midfielder to be out against United, or?
Arizona Scott
New member
Exactly, it is part of managing his fitness optimaly. Looks like him, trainers, and coaches have it worked out that a solid, hustling 60some minutes is the way to go for him and the team. How stupid would it be to get another hamstring issue when we have viable subs.
I dont think he is quite the level of the madrid match--i think fitness not quite there.
We will do the same with dembele, would be stupid to push him much past 70 minutes when you have malcom and coutinho available. There are good subs to make that can both protect the players health and bring fresh legs. Being subbed for a great shift and leaving it all out there should be accepted with pride.
raskolnikov
Well-known member
Lets not pretend Valverde is doing him some kind of favour with the subs.
He will never sub Busquets,Rakitic,Messi or Suarez. So that leaves Arthur who gets subbed for Vidal,Bob or Aleña and Dembele who gets subbed for Coutinho or Malcom.
Beforehand we already knew yesterday he was going to sub Arthur and Coutinho.
Its not managing minutes, its not what the game needs its just Valverde not having the balls/power to sub the other 4 unless badly injured or they require a rest.
It shows how much he caves in for seniority. Same reason who those players prefer him to continue next year.
He will never sub Busquets,Rakitic,Messi or Suarez. So that leaves Arthur who gets subbed for Vidal,Bob or Aleña and Dembele who gets subbed for Coutinho or Malcom.
Beforehand we already knew yesterday he was going to sub Arthur and Coutinho.
Its not managing minutes, its not what the game needs its just Valverde not having the balls/power to sub the other 4 unless badly injured or they require a rest.
It shows how much he caves in for seniority. Same reason who those players prefer him to continue next year.
And still he is the only midfielder suffering from injuries - maybe its not that bad to not risk him
raskolnikov
Well-known member
That would be an accidental benefit if true. I just wanted to point its not why Valverde does it though.
fair enough. Cant see I agree tho. There isnt really anything to prove one or the other, so i guess we should give him the benefit of doubt?
BBZ8800
Senior Member
If I hadn't been watching matches and just reading forum, judging by some comments here, a reader could easily get an impression that:
= Arthur is putting world class performances every week, and that a stupid EV is just hating him
But then, since I have also watched a match, and I think that Arthur was mediocre at best, again, I checked some other random (neutral) footie sites to see whether I am biased, or posters here are too biased towards whatever Arthur does.
These are player ratings from yesterday from the top few Google sites when I typed: player ratings Barcelona-Atletico:
Marca, user votes:
Rakitic 6th best player at Barca yesterday
Arthur 8th placed
Busi last, 15th placed.
Mirror:
Sergio Busquets 7 - With Atletico down to 10, this was his kind of match, controlling the game and threading moves together.
Ivan Rakitic 7 - A workhorse for the team and a crucial component of the side, even if he rarely gets the credit.
Arthur 6 - Has not been in the greatest form of late and although he passed the ball a lot, he wasn’t incisive or decisive.
Sport360:
Rakitic 7 - Saw plenty of the ball on the right of midfield, helping his team keep their shape and control the action.
Busquets 7 - Calm and confident in front of the back four, looking more assured than many of his recent performances.
Arthur 6 - Knitted play together with controlled passing but perhaps a little too safe with his distribution. Replaced by Malcom.
90min:
Busquets 7
Rakitic 6
Arthur 6
Allfootball app:
Busquets 7,6
Rakitic 7,2
Arthur 7,0
Whoscored:
Busquets 7,58
Rakitic 7,22
Arthur 7,01
Sofascored:
Busquets 7,3
Arthur 7,3
Rakitic 6,9
Sport:
Sergio Busquets 8 - Great game from the midfielder who covered well defensively and created attacking play too.
Arthur 7 - Played 60 minutes at a good level, active and participating, although the team lacked a little verticality.
Ivan Rakitic 6 - Improved as the game went on. Made some bad errors at the start but in the second half worked hard defensively.
Dailyadvent:
Rakitic 7 – Organised, polished display as expected from him.
Busquets 6 – Actually advanced from his usual deep midfield role at times in the second half, leaving gaps for Atletico to exploit on the counter.
Arthur 5 – Did his bit in an almighty battle against a tough opposition.
Let's say that the best rating (out of our 3 midfielders) by a certain internet site will give you 3 points, 2nd place 2 points and the 3rd place 1 point.
Ratings based on these 9 random internet sites:
Busi 24 points
Rakitic 20 points
Arthur 13 points
So, on different sites, ratings differ.
On some places, Rakitic was the best, on some Busquets, on some Arthur.
So, we could say that each person is unique and gives different ratings and value different skills in a player.
But still, when you sum a larger sample of these sites, Arthur was the weakest of our midfielders (he has the lowest rating on 5 out of 9 football sites).
So, regarding yesterday's match again, I personally can't agree that "a stupid EV" hates Arthur and that he is subbing off the best midfielder on a field just because he can't bench senior players.
Even on 3 out of these 8 sites, you can clearly see Arthur's ratings from neutral sites like "although he passed the ball a lot, he wasn’t incisive or decisive" and "but perhaps a little too safe with his distribution".
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SeloBarca
Senior Member
I can also throw out meaningless random stats.
Worst defensive stats, which is supposedly his strength
Felipetonelo
New member
His level of confidence is very low at the moment and you can clearly see based on his recent games. Arthur's style can vary a lot depending on his level of confidence and he showed that for both Gremio and Barca. When he's not confident he will keep things very simple/easy and try to not make any mistake. When he starts building confidence, he starts to try more risky things, advancing with the ball, dribbling, sending more and more forward passes, try some through balls, and will dribble and make quick turns to keep possession at the back.
When he was at his "peak" in the season, he was doing all things I wrote, so why is he regressing? I'm thinking that these things are related:
1) Lack of fitness in Europe style. I explain why: at Gremio he was playing every 3 days, full matches, non-stop, but in a decreased intensity. Now he plays every 7 days, but the game it's much more intense. He's having issues trying to keep intensity for 90min, even knowing that he will have more days to rest. He has to adapt to that. At the moment, this is affecting his play.
2) The substitutions in every game because of fitness. He probably thinks that he gets subbed off because he's not playing well, so his level of confidence drops and happens what I said. Then he tries to keep it simple and easy and tries to not making any mistake that puts Barca in a bad situation, and that results in him being non influent in the game.
3) Lack of motivation because of substitutions. You're playing for Barcelona week-in week-out and no matter how you play, you will be sitting at the bench in the last 30/20min of every game. I know someone could argue that playing for Barcelona is a huge boost of motivation, but it's not that simple. You play simple and easy, making no mistakes, gets on the bench. You play risky and dominate the midfield, bench again.
So, what's happening to Arthur in recent games it's a mix of lack of fitness and confidence (Arthur's fault), and in a small portion, it's Valverde fault. The treatment he gives to some players is awful (like benching Malcon for a month after scoring against Madrid), and taking off Arthur in every game it's not helping him.
When he was at his "peak" in the season, he was doing all things I wrote, so why is he regressing? I'm thinking that these things are related:
1) Lack of fitness in Europe style. I explain why: at Gremio he was playing every 3 days, full matches, non-stop, but in a decreased intensity. Now he plays every 7 days, but the game it's much more intense. He's having issues trying to keep intensity for 90min, even knowing that he will have more days to rest. He has to adapt to that. At the moment, this is affecting his play.
2) The substitutions in every game because of fitness. He probably thinks that he gets subbed off because he's not playing well, so his level of confidence drops and happens what I said. Then he tries to keep it simple and easy and tries to not making any mistake that puts Barca in a bad situation, and that results in him being non influent in the game.
3) Lack of motivation because of substitutions. You're playing for Barcelona week-in week-out and no matter how you play, you will be sitting at the bench in the last 30/20min of every game. I know someone could argue that playing for Barcelona is a huge boost of motivation, but it's not that simple. You play simple and easy, making no mistakes, gets on the bench. You play risky and dominate the midfield, bench again.
So, what's happening to Arthur in recent games it's a mix of lack of fitness and confidence (Arthur's fault), and in a small portion, it's Valverde fault. The treatment he gives to some players is awful (like benching Malcon for a month after scoring against Madrid), and taking off Arthur in every game it's not helping him.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Ok, I am gonna get some hate for this for attacking Arthur, Barca DNA player, a young player, and a forum's favorite.
But let's test something:
Roberto and Semedo are both our RBs.
When Semedo is not playing too much, people say: EV is ruining his confidence. Semedo needs to play more in order to get confidence and to play freely.
Ok.
On the other hand: Roberto is our starting RB.
Don't you think that he could get pissed because he needs to share his minutes 50:50 or 60:40 with some other guy (Semedo)?
So, to some extent, Roberto could also lose confidence, the same as Semedo, and his displays could be affected by too many rotations.
But what is happening in reality?
= Roberto is not affected and is usually always brave and on his usual level
= while Semedo's form if going up and down and he depends a lot about his confidence and how he feels in a certain period
Or, let's check some other rotation players:
Vidal: he is the 4th pick, behind a youngster Arthur and he gets a garbage minutes often even though he won 10s of trophies in his career.
But when he steps in, he plays with 120% and he is not affected by EV or by confidence.
Or, a young Alena.
He is the 5th pick.
He should have played way more, as our forum says.
But when he (rarely) DO get a chance (garbage minutes), he plays with 120% and is even slightly TOO CONFIDENT and is not scared to make a mistake.
Rafinha, when fit is never scared, even though he gets garbage minutes.
Or look at Malcom, he gets garbage minutes, he steps in and gives 200% and trying to prove to a coach, media and fans that he deserves more playing time.
Then, on the other hand, we have guys like Coutinho.
Who is obviously mentally very fragile and his form goes up and down based on his emotions, PMS and confidence.
I am not saying that EV is not guilty in the case of Arthur.
But again, you came to one of the biggest clubs in the world.
You know that you will fight with 5-6-7 world class players for your position.
You have to know that sometimes you won't play even though you may feel that you are the best pick.
You have to know that each coach has it's own ideas and some favorite players. In some cases, it won't be you.
You have to know that sometimes random things will happen like media attacking for no reason, or some teammate not liking for some reason, or some fans attacking you for some reason, or you will have personal/family issues and you won't be at 100%, or you will have health problems etc.
So, you see, in our team, we have players who don't give a fuck no matter what, like Vidal, Malcom, Rafinha, Roberto etc.
And then, we have guys like:
Messi, who sulks when we are losing 0:2 in Champions league matches and when things gets bad.
Guys like Semedo, who is hugely dependant on emotions and his level of confidence.
Coutinho, the same story.
And it seems, Arthur, the same story.
So, even if EV is guilty, Arthur being THAT MUCH affected by a coach and subs is really not a sign of a too great mental strength.
I mean, there will be times when we won't be winning titles, and when media will turn on him and ask for him to get benched or sold (like what is happening to Dembele, Malcom, Umtiti, Coutinho, Rakitic this season).
What then, should we expect an even bigger dip in form, in moments when things will turn ugly and chaotic?
I am not saying that players shouldn't have emotions.
But this is one of the biggest clubs in the world.
A competition is strong and not everything around you will be perfect and in your favor.
You can't be affected THAT much by the first obstacle which came in your Barca's career.
Remember Samper. He was too emotional (cried in a locker room during some Barca's B matches and refused to play when they were facing a relegation since it was a too huge pressure for him).
He never made it as a player. Not only because of his mental strength, though, but still.
Bartra, by some reports, refused to play during Tito against Bayern, because he was scared and it was a too important match for him to handle a pressure.
He didn't make it. For 1000s of reasons, but still.
More recent, Andre Gomes and his interview about too much pressure.
Dybala, too much pressure, anxiety and panic attacks during matches.
On the other hand, you have another midfielder in Barca's team, who is probably less technical and shiny than Arthur.
But on the other hand, he has balls of steel, remember his 2 winning penalties in the 5th series at World cup against Denmark and a home team Russia?
This is really not a trolling post.
But seriously, do you think that someone who is overly emotional like Semedo, Coutinho, Samper, Bartra and similar could have done this in the moments when the stakes are this high?
I don't think so:
Anyway, Arthur will need to work on his mental strength and ability to risk slightly more, regardless of what EV thinks.
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