Arthur

[serghei]

LOL at people who put Arthur in the same sentence as Xavi or Iniesta. There is no valid comparison to be had in any circumstances between Arthur and the aforementioned players.

A prime Iniesta or Xavi under Valverde would still be light years better than Arthur under Pep.

Valverde has his issues, but replacing him with a forum favourite coach is not going to suddenly turn all our young players into gods.

Nobody compares them outside some similarities in style which are very clear and have been noticed by Barca players as well.

Arthur doesn't fight with Xavi or Iniesta at the moment, but with Rakitic and past it Busquets who have been embarasseed by Milner and Henderson and have proven to be shite in CL 2 seasons in a row.

Comparisons with Xavi stem from the visual similarities and from the fact that Arthur is the only player who can keep the ball well under pressure in our midfield currently. Other players like Rakitic panic and shit themselves when the pressure is on.

It is not a comparison in terms of quality. Just like many talented black singers are compared to Whitney, without implying that they are or will be as good. It is not a hard concept to understand If you try.

 

[Laplacian]

Isn't this his 3rd injury since he got here...? Fuck come on, don't tell me it's going to become a habit.

 

[BBZ8800]

Regarding comments: he is young, he can improve.

Instead of going into circles with simplified and somewhat dumb replies like:
He will improve.
No, he won't.

Let's use numbers, it will be easier to explain. Even though numbers are arbitrary in this case.
Let's say that each player has a natural talent and skills which he can learn.
But a natural talent is more important and "a stronger skill".

So, on a scale from 1 to 100 in skills, let's say that a play can have a natural talent in between 1 and 80 skills maximum.
And skills which he can learn over career can be 20-30 points max.

So, for example, someone like Messi:
Had a maximum in natural skills, let's say=80 skills in technique and dribbling.
And then, over time, he was learning, listening to coaches and improved to a level 100/100.
So: 80 in natural skills and 20 in learning over time.

Or someone like Xavi:
His natural passing skill is crazy, again, let' say 80.
And then, over time, with a help from coaches, more playing time, experience and IQ, he improved his passing skills to a level 100/100.
So, again he had 80 skills from a natural talent and 20 skills from learning.

Now, let's take Gumbau now, for example.
His natural passing skill is not 80, like Xavi's.
Let's say that his natural passing skill is only 50.
That means, that over time, NO MATTER HOW MUCH he will try to learn, he will never surpass Xavi, as long as Xavi won't turn into an irresponsible idiot who will ruin his career.
Or a winger, like Malcom, who is not that good at dribbles.
Let's say that his natural skill in dribbling is 50 or 55 (Messi had 80).
That means that Malcom can slightly improve over time and make his dribbles more effective due to coaches, IQ, experience.
But even with learning, he will never surpass a skill level of 70 or 75.
Which means that Malcom with 10 years of learning and improving=will have weaker skills than some NATURALLY gifted winger aged 18.

In that sense, when you talk about Arthur (or any other player, like Semedo, Malcom etc): they will improve.
Of course that they CAN improve.
But only slightly.
If they are naturally shit or average at some skill, they will never become world beaters in that skill.
They can only turn from shit into average/playable in that skill.

Now, videos, Riqui Puig.
I am not saying that he will make it since he has some other deadly flaws.
But regarding his attacking-passing game, look at Puig's natural instincts.
When he receives the ball, the first area of a field where he is looking at is: an area around the box, but in the centre, NOT looking at fullbacks or looking back at a pivot of defenders.
So, Puig's instinctive idea/urge no1 is: play the ball as closer to the box as fast as possible.
And THEN, only if the options aren't good, he will make a sideway pass.

On the other hand, when Arthur receives the ball, look at where his head and eyes are aimed usually:
His first instinct is: a safepass and looking whether a pivot, fullbacks and defenders are "free" so that he can pass to them.
Looking forward and towards the box is Arthur's 2nd or 3rd choice idea.

So, Puig:
1. his natural instinct every time when he gets the ball is: pass the ball forward as soon as possible
2. and his conscious brain tells him: slow down (as a conscious effort)
Arthur:
1. his natural instinct is: play a safe pass, look at where Busi, Alba or defenders are
2. and his conscious brain tells him: wait, don't do that. Try to look forward, maybe there is someone free around the box.

So you see, imo, to Puig and similar players (Xavi, Iniesta, Coutinho)=forward passes are in their blood and in their instincts.
With Arthur and Rakitic for example, they aren't.

Now, look at the video:
Puig, who played only 100 minutes for a first team, and how his instincts work when he receives the ball (and try to look at where is he looking at as a first option when he receives the ball):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcs9GWHCi4M

Then the same match, Arthur.
Now try to look where is he looking at when he receives a pass. He is not looking forward, he is always looking for a backpass or a sideway pass option as a natural instinct:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13hXlx0HhOQ

So, when you guys say:
EV instructed him to play backpasses, lol:
Not true.
A kid Puig is getting a freedom, and Arthur is forced to play backpasses? Doesn't make any sense.

Also:
Arthur can surely improve in a forward passing game.
But if natural skill and instincts aren't there, then don't expect wonders and huge improvements in that area.

 

[-_- RandomUser -_-]

[tw]1138006864866828293[/tw]

Frenkie knows, let's hope that Valverde will play them together this season.

 

[-_- RandomUser -_-]

Isn't this his 3rd injury since he got here...? Fuck come on, don't tell me it's going to become a habit.

He is fine, it was just a blow. Tite confirmed it.

 

[Barcaman]

[tw]1138006864866828293[/tw]

Frenkie knows, let's hope that Valverde will play them together this season.

Not according to

 

[Messigician]

[tw]1138006864866828293[/tw]

Frenkie knows, let's hope that Valverde will play them together this season.

Not if anything to say about it Rakitic has

 

[serghei]

Okay, so I've taken about 4 hours of my time and made a game analysis on Arthur and especially the midfield dynamics of our team. Or, better said, the lack of any midfield dynamics whatsoever.

It is from Barcelona Real Madrid 1-1, which is the game in which Arthur got injured. A top game vs a good team. I've chosen a game without Messi to see just how bad our possession play is with Busi-Rakitic playing and without Messi to bail us out. And also, to see how much our terrible build-up tactics.

These observations will be useful also when De Jong will come, since he will suffer from the same things Arthur does more or less if he is paired with Rakitic and Busquets and if he will be managed by Valverde.

All screenshots are from the same game. So the images show a good portion of our possession build-ups done in this game in which Arthur was on the ball. Watch these, try to understand the concepts, the tactical variation, and then make up your mind if Arthur is a 'back passer' or is our system crap and completely devoid of courage and creativity.

Photo 1.

First you can see that when Arthur receives the ball, he is usually free of tight marking. This means he does the work required to free himself from pressure and marking. His movement, before his stamina issues start to show, is near textbook and surely worthy of a better system, better manager, and even better partners in midfield.

Here he receives the ball and is immediately pressed by at least two Madrid players at once, with other 2 nearby who have the role to block the nearest passes (what Mourinho called first station pass, when he told his Man. Utd. players to block those when he played vs Pep).

The situaton on the field is this. Suarez off reach and off picture. Malcom out of reach as well way wide. Coutinho covered by a Madrid player. Rakitic walking, Busi back and not participating. Alba the only pass option.

Naturally, Arthur, pressed by two with other two nearby, passes to Alba.

There is a great space with green marked in the photo. Nobody attacks it. Note that this is normally the AM space. Normally in this team, AM role should be done by Rakitic. Note that he is also the one player who is not at all marked, and able to make a run. Coutinho can attack that space as well.

Nothing happens. Arthur passes to Alba and BBZ puts another backpass in his list.

Photo 2.

Much of the same situation as photo1. Coutinho blocked by Madrid player with his cover shadow, Rakitic and Busi in bad positions.

Photo3.

What you will see time & time again is that Busi and Rakitic, due to extremely poor movement and also due to extremely negative and defensive tactics, almost never provide forward passing options to the ball carrier. They are either in line with the ball carrier, or behind him. Look at Rakitic again. Not trying for a second to provide a forward pass option.

Here it is a bit of an opening for Coutinho between the lines, and Arthur sees it and makes the pass. But Coutinho is a player from the front line. When he receives the ball he has like 2 options up front, amongst 4-5 Madrid players: Suarez and Alba lol.

So instead of one of the midfielders to be daring and offensive when we are on the ball and we want to create chances, we prefer to drop one of our attackers. And then we wonder that with 75% of the ball we barely shoot on target for a full game.

Photo 4.

Again. Busi and Rakitic do not provide any pass option in build-up. This is the major downside of playing Busi & Rakitic. Low movement, low creativity, bad progression. Here you have 9 Madrid players guarding 4 Barca players. Still, with almost every Madrid player in their own half, Busi and Rakitic do not provide options to pass for the ball carrier.

The problem of the system is that the midfield cannot create progression with 2/3 players standing still and not moving off the ball.

Photo 5.

This shows a greatly worrying thing. How long it takes for our older slow players to re-adjust their position in order to maintain a good shape. Arthur is again, face up front, in a very good position to orchestrate a good attack.

But... there's literally no one in the game. Busi and Rakitic are hiding between several Madrid players. The green zone, which designates the best, quickest follow-up option is not covered because Busi & Rakitic take forever to move out from their terrible positions and help out the guy on the ball. Here Arthur almost loses the ball, and only manages to keep it because of his great press resistance.

Rakitic in particular is so bad at moving and attacking space that 90% of the time he is either not participating in the action, or standing behind an opposing player. Here he is completely covered by Benzema and Modric and does nothing to try to get out of this bad situation in order to get in possession.

Most of the time, Rakitic doesn't even want to get in possession because he is not comfortable on the ball under pressure. The fact that a player like that is the manager's favorite tells you all you need to know about how bad Valverde is.

 

[messi2140]

Great post. For me that first picture is the most damning and where most of the issues of this stale football arises , Rakitic straight up playing hide and seek in that scenario. ( something that happens frequently with that fraud)

 

[serghei]

Photo 6.

Again, Arthur is looking for the ball open. And he receives. Note that even though Lenglet does nothing, Rakitic is the one making the pass. What is he doing there? The simple pass in the picture can be done just as easly by Lenglet (basically a standard 8m. pass).

But no problem, right? After he makes the pass, Rakitic will quickly move up and re-shape the midfield the correct way. Right? Well, no. Rakitic stays there for a good 10 seconds while we struggle to move the ball forward and create progression due to not enough options to pass.

Photo 7.

This is a good 6 seconds after the previous picture. Lol, Rakitic instead of re-occupying his position as the most attacking of the 3 midfielders in theory is even farther back than Lenglet. In the meantime, we, again, have no options to continue the attack. There's some big gaps in Madrid lines that go unpunished.

For example, instead of dropping that deep to do basically nothing, Rakitic could be where the question mark is, and suddenly we have at worst a 3 vs 3 there, a situation where you can do some real damage.[MT][/MT]

Photo 8.

Again, the solution to advance the play is a defensive one from Valverde. We make up for the lack of options from Busi and Rakitic in build-up with dropping Coutinho. Coutinho here is neither a attacking midfielder, nor a winger. He's both, but neither actually. But this simply leaves us with short personnel up front.

Also, we all blamed Coutinho, and for good reason, but most often than not, the only option to advance the play in positional comes from him. Here, again, he is the only one who tries to get on the ball. In moments like this it is not hard to see why he could play as an AM in a very energetic and active team like Liverpool, under Klopp.

Also, regarding Arthur. The second Coutinho freed himself, the forward pass is made. Again, proving he's not a backpasser when he has teammates who have won their position and can get on the ball. Not his fault that almost never happens because of this clown manager and his weak 'favorites'.

Photo 9.

Exhibit no x regarding to low movement and rigidity of Valverde-ball. Here Rakitic can just literally move 4m towards the green zone and Arthur can pass him the ball. He literally takes many seconds to figure out something so simple as this. By the time he does move and receive the ball Madrid player close that gap.

This is a great example to illustrate how bad our build-up is, because we play with two old slow players and under a defensive coward moron who can't play possession football for shit.

A good possession team creates a scoring chance from this situation with a few positional adjustments. I mean literally moving a few meters to be able to receive the ball. But Arthur man, he can't pass forward. He's to blame. Here he is literally begging Rakitic to take the right position. Just for lolz I put the thoughts of Arthur in this case next to Rakitic.

Photo 10.

Another example. Arthur on the ball, gets past Modric, and he still doesn't have an option for a pass because Rakitic is literally fixed on his ground. So, to explain what you are seeing here, you have a player on the run, carrying the ball and a bunch of teammates who stand still and watch.

On every serious possession team on the planet, a player quickly takes on a position in the green circle to create progression. Not at Barcelona.

 

[Kohe321]

Great posts that illustrate many of the reasons why our football has become staler than an opened bottle of Coke that's been sitting over the weekend. This is the main reason why I'm struggling to find enjoyment in watching Barca play nowadays.

 

[Sidewinder]

Okay, so I've taken about 4 hours of my time and made a game analysis on Arthur and especially the midfield dynamics of our team. Or, better said, the lack of any midfield dynamics whatsoever.

It is from Barcelona Real Madrid 1-1, which is the game in which Arthur got injured. A top game vs a good team. I've chosen a game without Messi to see just how bad our possession play is with Busi-Rakitic playing and without Messi to bail us out. And also, to see how much our terrible build-up tactics.

These observations will be useful also when De Jong will come, since he will suffer from the same things Arthur does more or less if he is paired with Rakitic and Busquets and if he will be managed by Valverde.

All screenshots are from the same game. So the images show a good portion of our possession build-ups done in this game in which Arthur was on the ball. Watch these, try to understand the concepts, the tactical variation, and then make up your mind if Arthur is a 'back passer' or is our system crap and completely devoid of courage and creativity.

Photo 1.

First you can see that when Arthur receives the ball, he is usually free of tight marking. This means he does the work required to free himself from pressure and marking. His movement, before his stamina issues start to show, is near textbook and surely worthy of a better system, better manager, and even better partners in midfield.

Here he receives the ball and is immediately pressed by at least two Madrid players at once, with other 2 nearby who have the role to block the nearest passes (what Mourinho called first station pass, when he told his Man. Utd. players to block those when he played vs Pep).

The situaton on the field is this. Suarez off reach and off picture. Malcom out of reach as well way wide. Coutinho covered by a Madrid player. Rakitic walking, Busi back and not participating. Alba the only pass option.

Naturally, Arthur, pressed by two with other two nearby, passes to Alba.

There is a great space with green marked in the photo. Nobody attacks it. Note that this is normally the AM space. Normally in this team, AM role should be done by Rakitic. Note that he is also the one player who is not at all marked, and able to make a run. Coutinho can attack that space as well.

Nothing happens. Arthur passes to Alba and BBZ puts another backpass in his list.

Photo 2.

Much of the same situation as photo1. Coutinho blocked by Madrid player with his cover shadow, Rakitic and Busi in bad positions.

Photo3.

What you will see time & time again is that Busi and Rakitic, due to extremely poor movement and also due to extremely negative and defensive tactics, almost never provide forward passing options to the ball carrier. They are either in line with the ball carrier, or behind him. Look at Rakitic again. Not trying for a second to provide a forward pass option.

Here it is a bit of an opening for Coutinho between the lines, and Arthur sees it and makes the pass. But Coutinho is a player from the front line. When he receives the ball he has like 2 options up front, amongst 4-5 Madrid players: Suarez and Alba lol.

So instead of one of the midfielders to be daring and offensive when we are on the ball and we want to create chances, we prefer to drop one of our attackers. And then we wonder that with 75% of the ball we barely shoot on target for a full game.

Photo 4.

Again. Busi and Rakitic do not provide any pass option in build-up. This is the major downside of playing Busi & Rakitic. Low movement, low creativity, bad progression. Here you have 9 Madrid players guarding 4 Barca players. Still, with almost every Madrid player in their own half, Busi and Rakitic do not provide options to pass for the ball carrier.

The problem of the system is that the midfield cannot create progression with 2/3 players standing still and not moving off the ball.

Photo 5.

This shows a greatly worrying thing. How long it takes for our older slow players to re-adjust their position in order to maintain a good shape. Arthur is again, face up front, in a very good position to orchestrate a good attack.

But... there's literally no one in the game. Busi and Rakitic are hiding between several Madrid players. The green zone, which designates the best, quickest follow-up option is not covered because Busi & Rakitic take forever to move out from their terrible positions and help out the guy on the ball. Here Arthur almost loses the ball, and only manages to keep it because of his great press resistance.

Rakitic in particular is so bad at moving and attacking space that 90% of the time he is either not participating in the action, or standing behind an opposing player. Here he is completely covered by Benzema and Modric and does nothing to try to get out of this bad situation in order to get in possession.

Most of the time, Rakitic doesn't even want to get in possession because he is not comfortable on the ball under pressure. The fact that a player like that is the manager's favorite tells you all you need to know about how bad Valverde is.

Think you should make this a separate thread, so it's more seen. spot on analysis. ivan and sergio can't play together anymore.

 

[defyqa]

But but but stats?

 

[BBZ8800]

But but but stats?

Lel.
[MENTION=15262]serghei[/MENTION]
Since I am shitting on Arthur:
But we agree that his main strengths are getting the ball out of our half, press resistance and recycling possession.
And that his best games come in matches when a team is pressing us, like Real Madrid.

Could you be objective now (when you'll have time) and try to analyze Arthur's movement and contribution in let's say 2nd halves of home matches against Espanyol and Real Sociedad when we had 10 players in their half and those teams parked buses?
I mean, your post proved that Arthur is awesome in getting the ball out of our half and that Busi and Raki are two trees.

But if you take a game when we play against a parked bus, you will see:
1. that Busi is a useless tree
2. that Raki is a useless tree
3. that Arthur is a useless, younger, sterile scared tree

So, you can sell one tree (Rakitic), but you will still have only Frenkie and 2 useless trees around him.

Again, since majority of our matches are against weak La Liga teams when we sit in their half for the majority of match, try to analyze those matches also.
Since matches against Getafes/Gironas at home are majority of our season, not El Classico.

 

[xXKonan]

You would always want the guy who can effectively bring the ball out the back that can resist pressure.

Which is baffling why Rakitic wants to be that guy. He isn't press resistant, He's not good at scanning his surroundings and his positioning can be severely lacking. You would think with his limitations he would be the more attacking one kinda like Vidal/Paulinho.

Vidal knows he has his limitations but he is smart enough not to try and be something he isn't.