Arthur

[Zidane82]

I’d love to see Arthur paired with FDJ with my beloved Busqs covering behind ..

 

[YodaMaster]

4. Played a first match with Frenkie. They looked incompatible.

But when you remove desires, Frenkie and Arthur don't look compatible at all.

Ladies and gentlemen, let me remind you the context: Arthur just came back from holiday, hasn't played since July and it was his first ever 20 minutes alongside Frenkie. 20 fucking minutes. But 20 minutes is enough for His Majesty BBZ to draw conclusions even if... Well, just have a look at what he told me yesterday when I asked him what did he think about Alena (who BBZ doesn't rate of course):

Are we now going to analyze every action from a preseason match against a crappy Italian team where we scored first two goals from offsides and Napoli gave up after that?

If Frenkie is a pivot and Arthur Cm, Frenkie will be pissed.
1. Arthur won't move vertically, so Frenkie will have less passing options
2. Plus, Arthur will instinctively occupy Frenkie's area (a pivot), like today.

Arthur is a great talent. But he's no Messi, he's no Xavi or Iniesta neither. He's a young lad who came from Brazil 1 year ago, he needs to be sharpened but he already showed signs of a world class midfielder. He was Barça's best midfielder last season before his injury. And this is a fact that doesn't need your approval. But he still has to get better in some aspects, which is normal for any young promising player. Everybody knows this.

Arthur lacks presence in last third, and he started showing glimpses of improvement in that aspect last year before his injury. It's a manager's job yo develop his young talents with great potential, and Arthur is improving under a fucking idiot who makes every player decline.

At Gremio, Brasilian Nt and Barca, Arthur has never shown pace, vertical movement or even through balls, attacking 1-2s etc.

Yeah, and De Bruyne never showed the abilities to be a CM before joining Pep, Masche never played CB before Pep, Salah never was a clinical goalscorer before Klopp, Bonucci was a shit defender before Conte,... Guess what ? Coaches sometimes transform a player, but 22 yo Arthur is a dead case because he has 1 or 2 tactical adjustments to do (because he has every tools, he showed that already). We should sell him, instead of getting a proper coach who could fix Arthur's little problems in 2 months.

Arthur has shown quick passing, quick thinking, quick decision making, quick movement to make himself free, great self awareness, as well as a great ability to constantly move unlike the 2 grandpas he played with (Fraudkitic and Busquets). That makes a great package if you ask me. And any world class coach would easily help this kind of player to transition into a complete midfielder. But yeah, Arthur doesn't have that Gareth Bale pace, so BBZ labelled him as a slow player. This just shows once again how limited your football knowledge is.
Xavi was slow too in a 100m run, but there's rarely been a player who moved the ball faster than him.

Reading you these last days is fucking hilarious. You're up here talking only about goal stats and run pace... when talking about fucking CMs lol. We should buy Deulofeu and make him our 3rd starting midfielder if I listen to you.

 

[Andresito]

Ban BBZ for constant trolling.

 

[serghei]

It is not about Rakitic.
For me, Arthur is the worse player in our team out of our 8 midfielders in terms of attacking.

He has fewer shots and goals and direct assists. He still contributes to the attack by way of passing the ball to the right players at the right time.

Efficient attacking is not about the last pass only. The trajectory of the ball to the striker starts with deep buildup. Arthur is one of the best players in the squad at keeping possession and ensuring fluidity. Now currently 2nd best after Frenkie de Jong who is superior in every way to Arthur. Possession and fluidity are obligatory for efficient attacking in positional play. That's football basics.

So, you are wrong that he is the worst player in our team in terms of attacking, because attacking is a big term which has much more meaning that you think. In your mind attacking is only who takes the final shot probably, or who makes the final assist.

That being said, Arthur does indeed need to up his direct contributions, meaning he needs to shoot more, appear in shooting positions more, and try more direct assists.

Rakitic would indeed be better than him, despite his limitation in build-up, if he would produce Lampard numbers in terms of goals and assists. If Rakitic can bring me 10-15 goals a season in La Liga and 8-10 assists, than yea, I could maybe accept that he is crap at build-up whenever he faces the slightest or pressing.

But as it stands, Rakitic is miles away from being an efficient scorer and assist maker, while being terrible in build-up.

 

[YodaMaster]

In your mind attacking is only who takes the final shot probably, or who makes the final assist.

Exactly, BBZ is the master at making shortcuts in football analysis. That's why I say he has a very limited conception of the game. That's also why he needs to constantly bring on stats: his eyes probably show him very limited stuff.

Arthur is a better offensive player than Rakitic simply based on the fact that Arthur can keep the ball, kill pressure, then give the ball to guys like Messi, Suarez, Neymar or Dembele. It's so easy to see.

Go rewatch how Barca got battered at Rome and in Liverpool. I'll tell you what happened: team couldn't breathe because struggled to beat pressure and advance, thus Messi and Suarez were completely useless, they received 0 decent balls (even more at Rome, in Liverpool it was mainly in the second half). Because Rakitic (our main CM since 2014) was hiding and back playing, which lead to putting team even more under pressure. Just go and rewatch the last 15 mins at Anfield when Arthur came onto the pitch: Barca could finally breathe and actually started to occupy Liverpool's half. And that just because Arthur wasn't afraid to get the ball, turn around to beat pressure, advance and give the ball to the attackers in the last third.

 

[YodaMaster]

A guy like Rakitic is dependent from players like Arthur, while guys like Arthur are independent in the midfield.

If you have 3 Rakitic in your midfield, your midfield will be absolute shit. It will get blasted and humiliated against every strong or even decent opposition. Because none of the 3 could resist pressure and build the play from the back.

Now if you have 3 Arthurs, your midfield will never get completely dominated. You're be the one dominating the possession actually, you'll struggle in aerial aspect (which represents 5-10% of a midfield battle over 90 mins), but you'll dominate in all the rest. You'll easily beat pressure, you'll easily build from the back, and you'll easily bring the play in the opponent last third. ONCE you're in the last third, your midfield (composed of 3 current Arthurs) will be pretty much useless and the goalscoring ability will depend on your attacking trio.

But at least, in the second case, midfield job gets done. What's midfield's primary job in possession ? It's to feed your attackers. Having goalscoring contribution is extra work from a midfielder, but it's far from being the first/main thing you should be asking for.

In the second case, you'll do a better defensive job too simply because you'll take away the ball from your opponent. While being unable to resist pressure and constantly undergoing opponent's offensives is exactly how we got smashed and humiliated these last years in CL, and that will always happen with 3 Rakitic in your midpark.

A guy like Rakitic is able to shoot from distance in the last third only because he has guys like Arthur, Busquets, Iniesta who bring the play up front and install the team up there.

Now Busquets these last year became a liability and making him play with a non existent midfielder in possession (Rakitic) didn't help.

 

[Porque]

Is there seriously a meltdown after Arthur's first minutes of pre-season football?

 

[BBZ8800]

Ban BBZ for constant trolling.

A bet:
If Arthur turns exactly as how I described on previous pages, can we then ban you and all other guys who disagreed?

A few Months ago, you were saying similar things when I was saying that Dembele is dumb and that Malcom is of Crystal Palace level.
I was the biggest cancer and an idiot.
Only because I have seen the truth sooner that too emotional fans.

 

[BBZ8800]

20 fucking minutes. But 20 minutes is enough for His Majesty BBZ to draw conclusions even if... Well, just have a look at what he told me yesterday when I asked him what did he think about Alena (who BBZ doesn't rate of course):

It is not 20 minutes.
It is Arthur's full season here, his style of play, his virtues and flaws.
It is De Jongs's season at Ajax and NT Netherlands.
Their styles of football.
And 20 minutes of a pure horror when Arthur came.
Then you sum all that up.

Again, I have said that Dembele will fail here after 1 or 2 matches here and that he is a horrible fit and a weird player on every aspect.

Some people need 2 matches, some need 4 years to see some patterns.

He has fewer shots and goals and direct assists. He still contributes to the attack by way of passing the ball to the right players at the right time.

Efficient attacking is not about the last pass only. The trajectory of the ball to the striker starts with deep buildup. Arthur is one of the best players in the squad at keeping possession and ensuring fluidity. Now currently 2nd best after Frenkie de Jong who is superior in every way to Arthur. Possession and fluidity are obligatory for efficient attacking in positional play. That's football basics.

So, you are wrong that he is the worst player in our team in terms of attacking, because attacking is a big term which has much more meaning that you think. In your mind attacking is only who takes the final shot probably, or who makes the final assist.

That being said, Arthur does indeed need to up his direct contributions, meaning he needs to shoot more, appear in shooting positions more, and try more direct assists.

Rakitic would indeed be better than him, despite his limitation in build-up, if he would produce Lampard numbers in terms of goals and assists. If Rakitic can bring me 10-15 goals a season in La Liga and 8-10 assists, than yea, I could maybe accept that he is crap at build-up whenever he faces the slightest or pressing.

But as it stands, Rakitic is miles away from being an efficient scorer and assist maker, while being terrible in build-up.

Why are you still talking about Rakitic?

After a preseason, I don't have anything against Frenkie-Roberto and a 3rd guy (Alena, Cou) midfield.
Without any of 3 grannies/turtles (Busi, Raki, Arthur).

If I would ask you to find 3 videos in Arthur's Barca career where he created 3 counters, you probably wouldn't be able to find it.
Because he is raised and programmed that way: calma, calma. Don't lose the ball as the priority no1.

A guy like Rakitic is dependent from players like Arthur, while guys like Arthur are independent in the midfield.

If you have 3 Rakitic in your midfield, your midfield will be absolute shit. It will get blasted and humiliated against every strong or even decent opposition. Because none of the 3 could resist pressure and build the play from the back.

Now if you have 3 Arthurs, your midfield will never get completely dominated. You're be the one dominating the possession actually, you'll struggle in aerial aspect (which represents 5-10% of a midfield battle over 90 mins), but you'll dominate in all the rest. You'll easily beat pressure, you'll easily build from the back, and you'll easily bring the play in the opponent last third. ONCE you're in the last third, your midfield (composed of 3 current Arthurs) will be pretty much useless and the goalscoring ability will depend on your attacking trio.

But at least, in the second case, midfield job gets done. What's midfield's primary job in possession ? It's to feed your attackers. Having goalscoring contribution is extra work from a midfielder, but it's far from being the first/main thing you should be asking for.

In the second case, you'll do a better defensive job too simply because you'll take away the ball from your opponent. While being unable to resist pressure and constantly undergoing opponent's offensives is exactly how we got smashed and humiliated these last years in CL, and that will always happen with 3 Rakitic in your midpark.

A guy like Rakitic is able to shoot from distance in the last third only because he has guys like Arthur, Busquets, Iniesta who bring the play up front and install the team up there.

Now Busquets these last year became a liability and making him play with a non existent midfielder in possession (Rakitic) didn't help.

Seriously, WHY are you still talking about Rakitic?
We have seen a beautiful, fast football yesterday without Busi, Raki and Arthur.

In general, I was talking that against Mickey Mouse teams when they park a bus, ANY of our midfielders is more useful than Arthur.
Against Liverpool, it is a different story.

After yesterday, there are some questions whether fast midfield is better than Arthur even against good teams.

 

[Andresito]

A bet:
If Arthur turns exactly as how I described on previous pages, can we then ban you and all other guys who disagreed?

Haven't had the time to read through everything. How exactly do you predict Arthur will end up? Sold to Everton or Milan next summer?

I was the biggest cancer and an idiot.

You should have kept your original post and not edited that in. I have never said that.

 

[serghei]

Why are you still talking about Rakitic?

After a preseason, I don't have anything against Frenkie-Roberto and a 3rd guy (Alena, Cou) midfield.

Now we're talking. Everybody knows you big up Rakitic to unreasonable levels based on very little.

Sure, there's a possibility Frenkie and Arthur won't complement each other great. We'll have to see how they do together after 10-15 games. Not 20 fucking minutes, that's for sure.

 

[YodaMaster]

Seriously, WHY are you still talking about Rakitic?
We have seen a beautiful, fast football yesterday without Busi, Raki and Arthur.

Yeah, not my fault that your narratives changes everyday, and twice on sundays.

Why am I talking about Rakitic ? Because few days ago you came on this same forum and clearly implied that he's our best offensive midfielder. Do you want me to quote that message ?
You also keep on saying that Arthur is the weakest one when team needs to score.

So I took the one you consider the best at attacking (Rakitic), then took the one you consider the worst (Arthur), and explained to you basic stuff that shows why these claims were another bullshit theory from you.

Is that clear enough now ?

It is not 20 minutes.
It is Arthur's full season here, his style of play, his virtues and flaws.
It is De Jongs's season at Ajax and NT Netherlands.
Their styles of football.
And 20 minutes of a pure horror when Arthur came.
Then you sum all that up.

Ok. I already heard this kind of narratives from pessimistic and apprehensive people like you. 'Blablabla player1 and player2 won't work together', people kept on repeating this 10 years ago about Xavi and Iniesta. Then one brave coach came and make them work together, it gave the best midfield duo ever.

See, I'm not telling here that Frenkie+Arthur will be Xavi-Iniesta 2.0 so calm down and put aside your statistics. What I'm saying is that first you have to try a combination before saying it won't work. And try it in 5-10 games, not making conclusions after 20 minutes. Then, on top of making them play together, you also have to work on your tactics and your players flaws. Especially when we're talking about 2 young super promising lads ( 21 and 22 years old) who the whole Europe would dream of.

If I adopt your way of thinking, I'll say Messi and Griezmann will never work together. Their favorite area is the same. See ? Then what ?! What should we do ? Sell Griezmann ??

Good players, cracks, will always find a way to play together. Not only that. They actually thrive when they play together.

Again, I have said that Dembele will fail here after 1 or 2 matches here and that he is a horrible fit and a weird player on every aspect.

Some people need 2 matches, some need 4 years to see some patterns.

You also said Coutinho will be a legend here. What's up about that prediction ? Could you make an update ?
You also implied FDJ is overrated and we should get guys like Rabiot first.

You say a lot of things, you talk a lot. Maybe you've been right sometimes, fair play. But since I'm on this forum, I saw majority of your predictions and wishes being completely smashed by reality. Maybe you should say less stuff in the future, but it's up to you.

 

[Potroh]

Some people need 2 matches, some need 4 years to see some patterns.

Oh my Lord...
BBZ as someone who only needs 2 matches to recognize talents and different qualities in footballers????
The best weekend joke in the continent...

 

[Arizona Scott]

Rakitic may very well be our best attacking midfielder. Not because he great at it-it is a matter of alternatives (and we didn't try to get ndombele, Bruno F, Havertz, or Eriksen who might have been an upgrade there). Where I disagree with BBZ in the midfield is on Arthur, I do think he is a sure fire regular based on how he has done in his 1st year in europe and copa play. BBZ is correct IMO Arthur has flaws, and isn't the best nor most complete young midfield prospect on his own team, but that other guy sure looks extra special and I am bullish on Arthur being a long term and effective mainstay next two him. I think they are smart enough and talented enough to compliment on another, read each other's games.

So to me the question is focused on how to best compliment FDJ and Arthur. Right now I think it split job with Rakitic/Vidal. I think they are simply better players in those roles as attacking midfielders than Bob or Alena. Busi is as good as they are (Raki/Vidal)--he has his own + and -, but I don't think we are best suited to an even more defensive rooted central midfield behind FDJ & Arther, at least not until we already have a lead and just want to kill them with 1000 cuts and not worry about having as potent offensive team. I see Busi/Vidal/Rakitic as all situational and the BS part is when one is tried to be portrayed as the singular killing problem to the team.

 

[Jcar]

The guy says he is a Barça fan, but hates the tiki-taka more than anything in the world.

For him is all about fast, tall and strong guys who will deliver solid defense and fast paced attacks.

He is going to say: Its not like that at all, i like this or that and blablabla... But its not gonna look like anything he has been posting in the last months lol