How would you like the team to play, just curious
Arthur
- Thread starter Jair Ventura
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How would you like the team to play, just curious
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
I think we've played 4-4-2 in the defensive phase for a couple of years now, since later 2015/16 IMO. It's the perfect way for Messi to defend because he doesn't have to run back, just stay higher up the pitch and press the CB's as part of the 2 forwards. He's surprisingly been very consistent with his defensive work recently, in the past month I've seen him defend much more frequently than I have since Pep's days.
4-3-3 going forward is just better for all, more players between lines and easier passing lanes to transition the ball forward. We played more of a 4-4-2 between mid September-December and at that time our ball movement was very flat and it doesn't really disrupt the opponent's defensive formation at all. Instead it encouraged them to settle into their lines and maintain a rigid defensive structure. A 4-4-2 going forward without emphasizing the wings or playing quick transition football seems redundant. Having a ponderous and slow buildup in that type of shape is just a recipe for low chance creation.
4-3-3 going forward is just better for all, more players between lines and easier passing lanes to transition the ball forward. We played more of a 4-4-2 between mid September-December and at that time our ball movement was very flat and it doesn't really disrupt the opponent's defensive formation at all. Instead it encouraged them to settle into their lines and maintain a rigid defensive structure. A 4-4-2 going forward without emphasizing the wings or playing quick transition football seems redundant. Having a ponderous and slow buildup in that type of shape is just a recipe for low chance creation.
SeloBarca
Senior Member
I think the 4-4-2 has also been a bit out of necessity rather than what Valverde wanted in the begining.
There has been a severex10 lack of creativity and controll in the midfield and Messi has has to play as our CM for 3+ years now.
With a better midfield Messi shouldnt be forced to shoulder all the midfield duties aswell as scoring all the goals.
We can hope Coutinho will be able to do something about that but we could also use a regista like Arthur who is also very good in defence.
Busquetes is not getting any younger either, and Arthur can play both CM and DM.
There has been a severex10 lack of creativity and controll in the midfield and Messi has has to play as our CM for 3+ years now.
With a better midfield Messi shouldnt be forced to shoulder all the midfield duties aswell as scoring all the goals.
We can hope Coutinho will be able to do something about that but we could also use a regista like Arthur who is also very good in defence.
Busquetes is not getting any younger either, and Arthur can play both CM and DM.
jamrock
Senior Member
Yep the 442 was definitely developed out of pure necessity but it was worked out beautiful, but it can't get all our best players on the bitch at the same time in a balance fashion, so 4-3-3 will have to return or a 4-2-3-1, which will basically be a 4-4-2 when we are defending anyways.
henias
New member
Messi does best when he drops in between the two lines of defence, as a false 9 where he can receive pullbacks and create space for wide players. It's a misconception to think Messi in midfield is holding him back because that's the whole purpose of a false 9. However, there are certain times when he drops way too deep, or in the case of Argentina where hardly anyone can link up with him and he is bascially creating chances alone for 4-5 players upfront who has zero aerial threat or composure in front of goal. Against Ecaudor, he moved up to more advanced position instead of his ultra deep positions against the likes of Venezuela or Peru.
And we do lack abit of width, of course Messi has Alba, but when Valverde uses Roberto as RB, it is definitely heavy work and punishing for the fullbacks. Few times the defence got caught off guard by Espanyol, especially the instance when Roberto tried to create from a deep position and Rakitic tried to move up the flank and support, but Roberto got dispossessed halfway through, allowing them to fully exploit our right flank with Rakitic missing from his position. Messi had to then drop very deep to collect the ball to cover the mistakes by those two.
It's also a misconception that 442 is "safer", especially when u have Rakitic and Roberto to do offensive and defensive work.
I strongly suggest a 433 if Roberto is used as a right back, and Semedo AND Roberto to be used if we are playing a 442. Because it is dangerous creating from deep positions, and the lack of a wide player to transition the ball quickly.
And we do lack abit of width, of course Messi has Alba, but when Valverde uses Roberto as RB, it is definitely heavy work and punishing for the fullbacks. Few times the defence got caught off guard by Espanyol, especially the instance when Roberto tried to create from a deep position and Rakitic tried to move up the flank and support, but Roberto got dispossessed halfway through, allowing them to fully exploit our right flank with Rakitic missing from his position. Messi had to then drop very deep to collect the ball to cover the mistakes by those two.
It's also a misconception that 442 is "safer", especially when u have Rakitic and Roberto to do offensive and defensive work.
I strongly suggest a 433 if Roberto is used as a right back, and Semedo AND Roberto to be used if we are playing a 442. Because it is dangerous creating from deep positions, and the lack of a wide player to transition the ball quickly.
M
MessiCam
Guest
Yeah, there seems to be this misconception that a 4-4-2 is automatically a safer defensive bet but it is not. I’d wager that a 4-3-3 would result in less defending due to ball retention being better. I’d be ok with a 4-2-3-1 but my problem with it is that it entails the use of only 2 CM’s of which 1 is of the defensive kind. To make it work we’re a midfielder of Arthur’s ilk short. Of course Iniesta could be tried in said role but that would mean Rakitic would lose out and his form is great at this stage but he lacks the necessary playmaking capabilities.Messi does best when he drops in between the two lines of defence, as a false 9 where he can receive pullbacks and create space for wide players. It's a misconception to think Messi in midfield is holding him back because that's the whole purpose of a false 9. However, there are certain times when he drops way too deep, or in the case of Argentina where hardly anyone can link up with him and he is bascially creating chances alone for 4-5 players upfront who has zero aerial threat or composure in front of goal. Against Ecaudor, he moved up to more advanced position instead of his ultra deep positions against the likes of Venezuela or Peru.
And we do lack abit of width, of course Messi has Alba, but when Valverde uses Roberto as RB, it is definitely heavy work and punishing for the fullbacks. Few times the defence got caught off guard by Espanyol, especially the instance when Roberto tried to create from a deep position and Rakitic tried to move up the flank and support, but Roberto got dispossessed halfway through, allowing them to fully exploit our right flank with Rakitic missing from his position. Messi had to then drop very deep to collect the ball to cover the mistakes by those two.
It's also a misconception that 442 is "safer", especially when u have Rakitic and Roberto to do offensive and defensive work.
I strongly suggest a 433 if Roberto is used as a right back, and Semedo AND Roberto to be used if we are playing a 442. Because it is dangerous creating from deep positions, and the lack of a wide player to transition the ball quickly.
I still think the 4-3-3 is our best bet with a fit Dembele but we’ll see how it plays out. I just can’t see us playing anything other than a 4-3-3 False 9 with Coutinho available.
xXKonan
Senior Member
The plan going by the rumors is to buy him and lend him back to Gremio for 6-12 months on loan. Part of it is to make the deal sweeter to Gremio and the other is our non eu spots since all three are currently taken up.
In Spain not Europe, to save 1 year till he gets the Spanish passport
We should not be stupid like we did with Marlon
xXKonan
Senior Member
Gremio's sporting director confirms there was talks but right now it's mostly starting.
https://globoesporte.globo.com/rs/f...celona-para-abrir-negociacao-por-arthur.ghtml
He mentions Arthur won't leave now (Obviously) according to Globo Gremio wants 30 million which is 60% of his rights and if he were to come it will likely be after the World Cup. another meeting should take place on Monday.
https://globoesporte.globo.com/rs/f...celona-para-abrir-negociacao-por-arthur.ghtml
He mentions Arthur won't leave now (Obviously) according to Globo Gremio wants 30 million which is 60% of his rights and if he were to come it will likely be after the World Cup. another meeting should take place on Monday.
ebieymjunior
Senior Member
If Arthur does come, which of Rakitic or Paulinho will leave?
Seeing there's already Busquets, Roberto, Coutinho, Iniesta and most likely Samper and Aleña in midfield.
Seeing there's already Busquets, Roberto, Coutinho, Iniesta and most likely Samper and Aleña in midfield.
God Serena
New member
Well, unless Yerry Mina turns out to be the flop I suspect he'll be, Paulinho has got to be the one to go regardless, considering he's a massive waste of a non-EU spot.
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