Arthur

[khaled_a_d]

I would like to see FDJ as a base to start with and see how we can figure out from there. But sadly current Lockerroom politics from certain characters will prevent from that happening.

Vey good post
I think the very first thing needed is to decide what is FDJ position and what we need beside him.
Is he a DM? a CM? or a 2nd DM?
What do we need beside him? a Kante type of midfielder? a Vidal esque? or a playmaker? And can Arthur coexist with him?

 

[xXKonan]

Vey good post
I think the very first thing needed is to decide what is FDJ position and what we need beside him.
Is he a DM? a CM? or a 2nd DM?
What do we need beside him? a Kante type of midfielder? a Vidal esque? or a playmaker? And can Arthur coexist with him?

There's a prevailing argument that FDJ as a single pivot wouldn't work because he isn't Busi in some regards enough for it to work.

But to be fair do we really need a exact 1:1 Busi replacement? in that lone Pivot role. Honestly, I would be happy with someone like FDJ there. Someone who is not only good on the ball but also very athletic on and off the ball and I have no doubt if FDJ did get a run in that role he would improve dramatically there.

I'm one of those guys now that this team doesn't need exact clones of certain players, but ones who are still really gifted enough to replace the likes of Alves, Iniesta,Xavi, Messi, Busi etc and are willing to work hard to do so. Mascherano despite the growing pains from transitioning from DM to CB, did a really good job filling the gap Puyol left behind for the years he's been here.

 

[serghei]

The question is if Arthur can further evolve and put his issues behind him.

While there are concerns with Arthur, there's also concerns with FDJ, on how badly we are misusing him as well. The amount of money we spent on him only to be used as a water carrier further up so Busi has to play is all sorts of fucked up on our part. I don't think we can properly build a Midfield until other issues can be solved.

I would like to see FDJ as a base to start with and see how we can figure out from there. But sadly current Lockerroom politics from certain characters will prevent from that happening.

Instead of changing our ways and fixing our team issues, we are thinking about selling players who could be great assets under a better working system in the future.

We will never improve with this mindset, no matter who we sign. Sure, we'll continue to fight for the title in La Liga because the technical level of our players is very high (probably the highest in Spain), but in Europe we will not be among the favorites for the CL.

Vey good post
I think the very first thing needed is to decide what is FDJ position and what we need beside him.
Is he a DM? a CM? or a 2nd DM?
What do we need beside him? a Kante type of midfielder? a Vidal esque? or a playmaker? And can Arthur coexist with him?

A Vidal-esque player. Arthur can coexist with De Jong. You need 2/3 players in midfield to be very good technically with passing. Our problems is with movement in attack not in midfield. If you have very low movement in attack and static, old players, it's impossible for the midfield to work well, because there are very few options in build-up. It's one of the staples of efficient possession football. To have proper ball circulation in midfield you need attackers who move off the ball.

 

[vuji_31]

Good sentence. Poor moving in attack.

Messi does not run, Suarez also. Then you have Griezmann who comes in midfield.

Probably buying Werner could be good option for some hybrid LW/no.9.

 

[serghei]

Good sentence. Poor moving in attack.

Messi does not run, Suarez also. Then you have Griezmann who comes in midfield.

Probably buying Werner could be good option for some hybrid LW/no.9.

Yeah. That's exactly what is missing. The amount of time our midfielders have to do safety passes because nobody is moving up front is crazy. Contrary to what people believe, in top football, when a player receives the ball he has 3-4 seconds at most to pass, otherwise he loses the ball mostly. Basically, if in these 3-4 seconds the forwards aren't alert and willing to attack spaces, nothing will happen.

Griezmann has the right attitude and hunger, but the issue with him is that he really is not a great fit for a 4-3-3 system. He is a 2nd striker basically.

 

[vuji_31]

True.

Maybe with double CDM pairing with Busqets and De Jong we can put Messi or Griezmann on CAM and at least get Griezmann on position between RW and No.9.

 

[serghei]

True.

Maybe with double CDM pairing with Busqets and De Jong we can put Messi or Griezmann on CAM and at least get Griezmann on position between RW and No.9.

But that's only a very short term solution. Our game is played around the 4-3-3. The big success this club had historically is tied to that system. The brand of football we play is why most are fans of this club.

Other clubs can change how they play around the players or the managers they have at some point, in order to maximize their chances of winning. That's not how we do it. We make sure we can play the football we want to play.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah. That's exactly what is missing. The amount of time our midfielders have to do safety passes because nobody is moving up front is crazy. Contrary to what people believe, in top football, when a player receives the ball he has 3-4 seconds at most to pass, otherwise he loses the ball mostly. Basically, if in these 3-4 seconds the forwards aren't alert and willing to attack spaces, nothing will happen.

Griezmann has the right attitude and hunger, but the issue with him is that he really is not a great fit for a 4-3-3 system. He is a 2nd striker basically.

Arthur and to an extent FDJ are also very guilty of taking the overly safe pass on when there are chances to open the game up and they turn it down.

Both are issues and if FDJ is to replace Busquets eventually he does not need to take riskier passes all that often but if you pair him with Arthur one of them needs to and that includes if they have another more offensive midfielder with them.

 

[El Gato]

Of that and much more. We need to get this board out as soon as possible.

Mostly that in this case IMO, professionalism issues are nearly always the result of crap group attitude. If captains pulled their weight and actually were able to sort him out, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[JamDav1982]

True.

Maybe with double CDM pairing with Busqets and De Jong we can put Messi or Griezmann on CAM and at least get Griezmann on position between RW and No.9.

Midfield would get killed and outworked if you have Messi as one of the three.

It also leads to everyone passing to him to often and he is not a playmaker that dictates tempo but plays more like a second striker that takes risks.

In 433 Barca wont get their midfield back unless Messi stays on RW more but will never happen.

 

[serghei]

Arthur and to an extent FDJ are also very guilty of taking the overly safe pass on when there are chances to open the game up and they turn it down.

Both are issues and if FDJ is to replace Busquets eventually he does not need to take riskier passes all that often but if you pair him with Arthur one of them needs to and that includes if they have another more offensive midfielder with them.

Very rarely so. Mostly, the forward department is very slow and lazy. Good luck trying to find midfielders to play passes to static players surrounded by 3-4 opponents.

The no10 role has nearly disappeared form the game in influence precisely because of this. As teams start to crowd the middle more, service became more and more dependent on movement and less on the quality of the execution. You of all people should know this, considering Liverpool have progression even when they play with technically average players like Milner, or Henderson. Why? Because of the constant movement happening up front.

 

[JamDav1982]

Very rarely so. Mostly, the forward department is very slow and lazy. Good luck trying to find midfielders to play passes to static players surrounded by 3-4 opponents.

It does happen a lot. Can be infuriating at times to watch Arthur and FDL keep it overly safe when better options on.

Rakitic does it all the time as well although he has better range of passing and can zing a ball if given time.

It is one of the main gripes folk have with Rakitic and it wouldnt be if he was not turning down passes to try and advance the game.

For example see it a lot that Griezmann in behind is on and players dont try it and turn way and he looks pissed off.

 

[serghei]

It does happen a lot. Can be infuriating at times to watch Arthur and FDL keep it overly safe when better options on.

Rakitic does it all the time as well although he has better range of passing and can zing a ball if given time.

It is one of the main gripes folk have with Rakitic and it wouldnt be if he was not turning down passes to try and advance the game.

For example see it a lot that Griezmann in behind is on and players dont try it and turn way and he looks pissed off.

Yea, well, here is where we disagree. I did analysis on games under Valverde before, and I found out it is happening very rarely for attackers to move in good positions and for midfielders to refuse the pass to them. The problem is almost all the time the very poor movement and work-rate of the old attack - Messi and Suarez.

If we play with both Messi and Suarez, and we sell Arthur, you will maybe see the same when the player we bring will do a lot of side and back passing. You already should be thinking about why was De Jong named the best midfielder in CL while at Ajax, and now suddenly he has problem with passing? Could it be because Ajax was a hard working, young, energetic and hungry team, while Barcelona are old, slow, and poorly prepared physically? Making it harder for midfielders to find options to pass? I'd say it's very probable the answer is yes.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yea, well, here is where we disagree. I did analysis on games under Valverde before, and I found out it is happening very rarely for attackers to move in good positions and for midfielders to refuse the pass to them. The problem is almost all the time the very poor movement and work-rate of the old attack - Messi and Suarez.

If we play with both Messi and Suarez, and we sell Arthur, you will maybe see the same when the player we bring will do a lot of side and back passing.

You dont agree that Rakitic is overly safe on the ball but it is down to the attackers?

The attacking players lack pace and movement but that still the midfield are overly safe too often and pass ball about for sake of it and turn down riskier options which the top midfielders take more often.

 

[serghei]

You dont agree that Rakitic is overly safe on the ball but it is down to the attackers?

The attacking players lack pace and movement but that still the midfield are overly safe too often and pass ball about for sake of it and turn down riskier options which the top midfielders take more often.

Rakitic, yes, Arthur and De Jong, and even Busi? No.

Other midfielders have teams who are better on transition. When Barcelona losses the ball, it's not the same as if Liverpool or Atletico loses it. Our pressing and intensity levels are low.