Arthur

[BBZ8800]

Ok

If we play 4231 with Frenkie and Arthur, fine.

What about other 70% of matches during a season when Arthur will be injured, tired, sad or partying in Paris?

When we play 433, we have several options for each position and we aren't changing a formation if someone gets injured.

For 4231, we have only 2 suitable pivots, FDJ and Arthur.
And since it is inevitable that Arthur will miss majority of a season, then we would either:
1) play 4231 with Frenkie-Busi/Rakitic which is too defensive and horrible
2) or we would switch between 433 and 4231 all the time based on whether Arthur is training or not

For 4231, we would need to relearn a lot of things and buy at least one pivot.
Also, if Griezmann is a CAM, then you need 2-3 more attackers besides Messi, Suarez, too young Ansu and unreliable Dembele.

A lot of ifs and too many trsnsfers needed for something which raises concerns even when discussed on a paper.

 

[mc_lovin]

Arthur-Frenkie in a double pivot looks shit on paper. No need to discuss that. And Messi as a 10 has no future, thinking about it we shouldnt use a classic 10 either way, its outdated. No to Griezmann in that role as well - just get rid of him before trying to accommodate him somehow.

Frenkie-Tonali (not that I believe we will buy him) would make more sense if you want to go that route with a deep 10 (Arthur, Puig, Pedri?) and the defensive midfielders moving wide (Ajax system with Frenkie).

My preference would still be to just stick to our classic 4-3-3 and buy fitting players, but thats probably too much to ask for with this board.

 

[BBZ8800]

Frenkie-Tonali (not that I believe we will buy him) would make more sense if you want to go that route with a deep 10 (Arthur, Puig, Pedri?)

Why would anyone sane put Arthur anywhere near the opposition goal?

Under a premise that you want to win matches, of course.

 

[mc_lovin]

Why would anyone sane put Arthur anywhere near the opposition goal?

Under a premise that you want to win matches, of course.

Hes small, mobile and technically strong. But stats and shit, right?

 

[vuji_31]

Arthur and Frenkie at CDM is shit.

Frenkie plus box to box player would be good

 

[Luftstalag14]

Are we trying to sell everybody so we can have the money to buy Neymar and Lautaro?

Pathetic.

 

[Arnaez]

I wouldn't mind if they replaced him with someone like Thomas, Aouar or Bruno Guimaraes, never impressed me that much.

 

[Messigician]

Are we trying to sell everybody so we can have the money to buy Neymar and Lautaro?

Pathetic.

Hopefully. Just keep the most important players and sell the easily replaced ones.

 

[DonAndres]

Ok

If we play 4231 with Frenkie and Arthur, fine.

What about other 70% of matches during a season when Arthur will be injured, tired, sad or partying in Paris?

When we play 433, we have several options for each position and we aren't changing a formation if someone gets injured.

For 4231, we have only 2 suitable pivots, FDJ and Arthur.
And since it is inevitable that Arthur will miss majority of a season, then we would either:
1) play 4231 with Frenkie-Busi/Rakitic which is too defensive and horrible
2) or we would switch between 433 and 4231 all the time based on whether Arthur is training or not

For 4231, we would need to relearn a lot of things and buy at least one pivot.
Also, if Griezmann is a CAM, then you need 2-3 more attackers besides Messi, Suarez, too young Ansu and unreliable Dembele.

A lot of ifs and too many trsnsfers needed for something which raises concerns even when discussed on a paper.

As of now, I said Vidal was better suited to the double pivot next to FDJ instead of Arthur. High defensive workrate, covers a lot of ground, and is a good runner to link with FDJ/Messi/Griezmann.

As for the other concerns, they exist no matter what. Even under the current 4-3-3, most people are calling for 2 attacking transfers and binning Griezmann. In a 4-3-3 we would have to buy another midfielder in the next year or two anyway.

A 4-2-3-1 with double pivot is not just believed but KNOWN to be the best setup for Griezmann, FDJ, and possibly Vidal. We have 2 players we bought last season who when used at their best in their careers were FIFA XI material and both made the Balon shortlist, with Griezmann making the podium. And yet we insist on using them horribly, and then in the case of Griezmann just selling him as another hugely wasted investment.

So how is my solution "a lot of ifs and new transfers" and all this, when the current 4-3-3 would require just as many transfers according to everyone here. At least my solution proposes getting return on investment from 120m in Griezmann, who is a very talented player if we bothered to unchain him. So if anything, this method is cheaper and better for maximizing performances.

Suarez and Messi get to keep the same role, nothing changes for them so they don't have anything wild to "adapt to". Ansu or Dembele is our go-to LW given we have absolutely no one else but yeah we would need a new LW no matter the circumstances. The only thing a 4-2-3-1 changes is the midfield. Instead of catering to the needs of Busquets and building our midfield entirely around him, we instead focus on getting the most out of FDJ and Griezmann.

I would've thought you of all people would be up for a midfield with more running/pressing/energy and not shackled by Busquets.

 

[Messigician]

Well since we put Arthur on the market I guess the board see the same flaws BBZ saw in Arthur from day 1

 

[Andresito]

I've said this before, 4-2-3-1 requires carefulness and high workrate. At Barca the risk is enormous that it ends up being a 4-2-4 leaving Frenkie and the other CM all alone in defence.

The best solution to Messi and 4-3-3 would be a CM/RM/RW hybrid, a Bernardo Silva type who starts off at CM with Messi as RW and drifts wide when Messi centers. A Di Maria but with higher quality.
Otherwise 4-4-2 is the only way. Griezmann is familiar as a RM, but he won't be as effective as we'd expect him to.

Still, I think we should aim for 4-3-3. It's the best formation to build from the back and easily transitions into a 3-4-3 with the DM dropping down and LB/RB pushing up.

 

[i_bleed_blaugrana]

http://https://twitter.com/barcacentre/status/1255044055135916033?s=21

Even getting de Ligt somehow, someway wouldn?t make this worth it. Especially for a player exchange

Anyways, been watching a lot of old footy and I rewatched the knockouts of 05-06 in particular. I mention this because Rijkaard basically played a 4231. The biggest thing I noticed tactically from his setup then was:

A) Ronnie & Messi/Giuly’s starting positions being VERY wide
B) Deco & Eto’o tactical & positional flexibility
C) AERIAL. (general theme across Europe at this time, say what you want about Becks but you can see he definitely was influential). Not spamming Square like Liverpool but more in delivering direct balls into forwards from the MF over the top. There was a general willingness from all 11 to risk more turnovers for penetration but crucially there was pace in behind to get to the balls and execution from the player supplying the ball.

All of this while still being able to slow the pace down, triangulate and find spaces from positional interchanges. Bottom line: There is a lot there that is viable tactically in this climate...

And I’m just skeptical of it being the right way forward, short of an overhaul, fire sale. de Jong would be great in this formation but he’s about it for me, outside of maybe Messi. I?m 50/50 on shifting Messi to a 10 and my biggest concern is how much of an imbalance that causes in the center. Love him to death, but I haven’t seen him be willing to do enough off the ball to make that work consistently. It’s better to have him do this naturally as a forward and have a player/players accommodate that movement and that?s a lot easier in a 433.

With Greiz as a 10, its just the classic Barca move to buy an expensive toy and play him out of position because m e s q u e u n c l u b.

I‘m just not a fan of ideas like this, honestly if we are going to do that, sell Griezmann and recall Coutinho, because it?s his more natural position than Griezmann. It?s the same logic with Messi, Greiz playing as a 10 just wouldnt significantly boost the squad to overcome the MF imbalance. As Im sure BBZ will point out, anchoring Rijkaard’s system was Edmilson, Motta and Van Bommel and you really need two shutdown defensive MFs, who can cover ground while also being technically sound on the ball. Right now, only Frenkie really checks all of those boxes and Vidal comes close, but is most likely gone this summer. Again, we?d need several players (anchoring MF to support Frenkie, a real attacking MF who could actually cover ground and create, 9, LW) to make this work.

I think itll be better to stick to 433 long-term and short-term. It takes less of an overhaul and is easier for youth to integrate into in the future. Specifically why we shouldnt be letting Arthur go because he will help that formation work, now and potentially in the future. We simply need to bench Busi for Frenkie, the time has come and let Busi come on as an impact sun to shut games down with possession. Think of how Lucho used Xavi and that?s how I think we should be using Busi moving forward. Then, two key MFs play in their preferred roles and all we have to work out is the LCM, which for me, should be a battle between Alena/Pedri/Puig at least for a year or two.

I really don’t think the market is all that great, outside of the two big ones we all know about. The only other players I’d really want (somewhat realistically) is de Ligt and/or Fabian, otherwise, it?d be nice for once to see what our youth can do now that the squad is finally starting to open up for them.

 

[vuji_31]

Well I think no.10 for Griezmann in 4231 would be great because he can run like horse. He is as attacker doing sliding tackles and also his best move is finding space as second striker.
Because of his H/H work rate in attack and defense I think that would be great position for him.

 

[serghei]

I don't like the 4-2-3-1 for us. I prefer the 4-3-3, except we need to find a way to make the forwards defend a bit. All of them, not just Griezmann.

If we add a young physical midfielder, and a more hard working forward instead of Suarez, the improvement in terms of work-rate, speed and intensity will be evident very fast.

I don't believe we need that many changes tbh. 2 changes are enough for now.

 

[vuji_31]

Player in every line, but not 29 years old, max 25 years old .