Arturo Vidal

[Joan]

Even then. Many patterns are at play.

At least you're admitting there are patterns. Can live with that.

 

[KingMessi]

At least you're admitting there are patterns. Can live with that.

if you noticed, the only reason I pointed at EV's "lack of character" is because I wanted to say it isn't as simple as the squad lacking character.

If the squad lacks character, then we should also blame EV for his demonstrated errors in judgement and decision making. Or something along those lines.

 

[Luftstalag14]

This comment got a lot of likes from a Bayern forum:

Barca lost the best midfielder of the last 15 years and got the Ferrari crusher who will fuck everything up when it matters the most.

We have been warned.

 

[KingMessi]

That sounds a bit bitter.

Probably still mad about Vidal screwing Bayern against Madrid in 2017.

 

[ThwiX]

This comment got a lot of likes from a Bayern forum:



We have been warned.

Xavi has been gone for a while already, tho.

 

[KingMessi]

Xavi has been gone for a while already, tho.

Obviously talking about Goatinho. Come on now.

 

[Joan]

Reality check:
Busquets is the best static no6 passer in the world, i will give you that. But, unless complemented with the right kind of players to support him, his weaknesses can get heavily exposed.
Arthur was just signed. He has never played in Europe. Great potential, but listing him already as part of the 'best midfield' is at least delusional..
Roberto has played competitively only as a RB the last two years. He was not trusted to play in the md by several coaches.
Coutinho is going to play out wide on the left cutting in. Don't count him as a md, unless you are implying a different argument.
Rakitic is in steady decline since 2016. In what other top team's md Rakitic would start? Would he start at City's, Liverpool's, Chelsea's, Utd's, Bayern's, RM's, Juve's?? Let me answer it for you: NO, he wouldn't. I bet he wouldn't even start at Tottenham ahead of Dier-Alli-Eriksen
Vidal is 31 and is being bought because he is coming cheap to do what Paulinho did last year. Certain traits are wanted, he is not even going to be a starter.

How from the above picture you make that EV has no excuses now is beyond me..
'No excuses' would have been buying Pogba and Thiago for EV to fill in the holes of md, not even failing to get De Jong and then disguising that with Vidal..
Let alone the lack of depth upfront and the questionable quality at the back. It seems to me that if Vidal is the last signing of this summer, EV will have to become an alchemist again to find 'combinations' that can masquerade the lack of quality in certain departments of the squad.

Sorry, no. That's a great midfield right there. We can moan our midfield is not good enough all we want, but it's up to the coach to set it up to properly and make it work. One could argue we don't lose battles against allegedly the best midfield in the world in Clasicos. My point: it's not really the midfield not being good enough, it's making the most of it. Structure of the team. Gameplan.

Bit about the players.

Busquets: world class. Nothing to add.

Rakitić: world class. One of the best in the world, as shown this World Cup. Would start in most teams you mentioned. Better than Fernandinho, pretty much all Liverpool's midfielders, heck, Chelsea, Cesc is a starter there, Bakayoko played most of the games, Juve's midfield is nonexisting etc.

Coutinho: world class, will play as a midfielder.

Roberto: knows the team well, versatile, great rotational option

Arthur: great potential there, it's on Valverde to make use of him

Vidal: impact player, physical beast Valverde wants, b2b etc.

That's a very good squad. Valverde has to deliver. By deliver I don't mean win a treble, but mustn't exit the CL the way we're used to lately.

 

[Joan]

if you noticed, the only reason I pointed at EV's "lack of character" is because I wanted to say it isn't as simple as the squad lacking character.

If the squad lacks character, then we should also blame EV for his demonstrated errors in judgement and decision making. Or something along those lines.

Of course. Valverde lacks character (meaning we're using this evening). I, on the other hand, wanted to point out it's not only about the coach. Or something similar.

 

[soul24rage]

Knowing EV as I know him, I really do see him playing this formation in a CL knockout match with Vidal playing in the same role as Paulinho did vs Chelsea 1st leg and subbing Dembele and Malcolm in to add pace in the 2nd half.

------Back four
Vidal--Busi--Raki--Cou
--------Messi
---------Suarez

 

[Devils]

Decline and fitness is not character though. You're backing up my point.

The best team on paper is not the one that wins always. There are tactics in sports. Teams plan to neutralize opponents strengths and enhanced theirs. Good guidance and management is required.



This is not a Barca thing.

Firstly Barca lose 3-2 to Atletico in 16. Not a collapse.
Secondly, they lost to Juve 3-0 agg. in 17, after coming back 6-1 vs PSG. Collapse? Juve lost final 4-1 to RM, did they collapse as well? Bayern lost 6-3 agg. to RM same year. Collapse?
This season, Barca shit the bed vs Roma, but Liverpool beat City 5-1, collapse? Liverpool lost 3-1 final vs RM, collapse?

Think you're being too dramatic with the squad. We've all seen the issue with player signings and bad coaching coming. We don't need to go looking for extra mythical reasons when we've got tangible ones in hand.

I don't think you understand what a systematic collapse is...

-In the second leg Atletico won 2-0 and Barca were lost for pretty much the entire match
-Bayern came back after the first leg to push the tie to overtime...went down fighting
-Liverpool went up 3-0 on City before halftime and then City fought back and were the better team in the second...went down fighting
-Karius making two blunders is not systematic collapse of Liverpool and yes Juve collapsed but I was more so referring to CL elimination ties not one match finals.

I'm not talking just about the final scoreline, I'm talking about the way the team played the entire match.

I have no problem if we go against Bayern in a CL tie and lose 5-0 if our team shows fight in that match, creates chances, presses the opposition, makes offensive plays but fails to convert chances.

We. Don't. Do. That.

When we go down goals in CL ties, the match becomes chaos...Barca loses its entire shape, the team panics, everyone looks hopeless, timid and creates nothing.

We didn't do that in the second leg vs Atletico
We didn't do that in the first leg of Paris
We didn't do that against Juve
We didn't do that in Rome

There is something wrong when we are under different managers but the same thing keeps happening to or players on the pitch. Yes Tata was a completely clueless manager and you'd expect it to happen under him, but Lucho and Valverde, definitely not.

You can think as you like, but at the end of the day, Barca shouldn't be losing these matches the way that they do. It's fine to lose, happens to everyone, but the way that it is happening in recent years is unacceptable.

 

[Barcaman]

This comment got a lot of likes from a Bayern forum:



We have been warned.

Sure. We never signed Coutinho and Arthur.

 

[Sumlit]

I don't think you understand what a systematic collapse is...

-In the second leg Atletico won 2-0 and Barca were lost for pretty much the entire match
-Bayern came back after the first leg to push the tie to overtime...went down fighting
-Liverpool went up 3-0 on City before halftime and then City fought back and were the better team in the second...went down fighting
-Karius making two blunders is not systematic collapse of Liverpool and yes Juve collapsed but I was more so referring to CL elimination ties not finals.

I'm not talking just about the final scoreline, I'm talking about the way the team played the entire match.

I have no problem if we go against Bayern in a CL and lose 5-0 if our team shows fight in that match, creates chances, presses the opposition, makes offensive plays but fails to convert chances.

We. Don't. Do. That.

When we go down goals in CL ties, the match becomes chaos...Barca loses its entire shape, the team panics, everyone looks hopeless and creates nothing.

We didn't do that in the second leg vs Atletico
We didn't do that in the first leg of Paris
We didn't do that against Juve
We didn't do that in Rome

There is something wrong when we are under different managers but the same thing keeps happening to or players on the pitch.

You can think as you like, but at the end of the day, Barca shouldn't be losing these matches the way that they do. It's fine to lose, happens to everyone, but the way that it is happening in recent years is unacceptable.

And the reason for all this, according to you is not a team that's lacking talent and guidance, but a team that lacks character. Is not that they're losing, but they way in which they are losing. If the team had more character, they'd lose, but go down fighting like Liverpool, City and Bayern.

Sorry but this is not how you build consistent success. You do it with proper management, a proper plan, good player renewal, good coaching and yes, talented players.

A team can lose in any which manner, after all, chance and circumstances play important parts in the outcome of games, and character is not defined by difficult loses.

 

[xXKonan]

In the 2015/16 season we were bit in the ass by the Fifa Ban and Vidal and Arda not exactly working out like it did.

there was a time our bench early in the season was like this.

Bench Barcelona: Ter Stegen, Douglas, Vermaelen, Mathieu, Adriano, Gumbau, Munir #fcblive

XI was alright but the bench? oh boy.

 

[Barcilliant]

Is this confirmed?

 

[Devils]

And the reason for all this, according to you is not a team that's lacking talent and guidance, but a team that lacks character. Is not that they're losing, but they way in which they are losing. If the team had more character, they'd lose, but go down fighting like Liverpool, City and Bayern.

Sorry but this is not how you build consistent success. You do it with proper management, a proper plan, good player renewal, good coaching and yes, talented players.

A team can lose in any which manner, after all, chance and circumstances play important parts in the outcome of games, and character is not defined by difficult loses.

I never said the team wasn't lacking in talent or guidance. I said the team was lacking character, which can fall into those categories you mentioned like proper team management and recruiting talent.

I'm saying that Barca lacks the talent that comes with characteristics that of which the likes of Vidal brings to the team on the pitch. Talent as in aggressive, hardworking physical and fighting playing style and characteristics such as commanding, vocal, confrontational, intimidating towards the opposition and not afraid to act thuggish.

That is outside of the typical Barcelona player we've seen over the last few years and imo the type we miss in those CL ties.