Barca Transfers and Rumors

[Jombi]

Vidal is certainly no "youngster". The guy is 27 years old. Arda is pushing 30.

Its not about age, its about quality. Several people here also wanted the donkey Mario Gomez.

26 year old world class players play for rich clubs already and are unavailable. Available players are players younger than 25 who have yet to make their move to the top 10 richest clubs in the world, generally speaking. So that means players like Umtiti, Fabinho, Boufal, Sidibe, Ricardo Pereira, Tolisso, Jesus, Dembele etc. Some of those players have already moved.

 

[khaled_a_d]

1-We don't know who we are buying for RB,and player like Lichtsteiner are done. Roberto has proved many times that he is a guy that the media would never know what is in his mind
My prediction? Vidal will stay and used from time to time till end of the year then situation will be evaluated.
But I don't make judgement based on predictions


2-I said it many times that you need balance in the squad,same words you used btw
We can't keep using short term options,we can't keep using 25-26 players as our only signings (like Vidal) and yes we can't only use 23 years old players as our signing
But more important than signings is the players we have,those who dictates your needs in the market. We had old and thin squad and we needed to regain that balance,that is what Roberto has done and that why his approach no matter what should be appreciated,we will see have he executed the approach right or wrong.


3-We overpaid? No we didn't.people who think that aren't aware of the market. don't want to do like Jombi and say players are cost insane amounts etc but the truth is the prices today are inflated than it was 4 years ago
People compare players with the best bargains and then judge prices which is stupid to say at least. There won't be many Rakitic deals or Alba deals
If we buy a good back up for a team that want to win CL then 15-25M is the price. A starter won't cost less than 35M .there will be some cases of overpaying and others of bargains but that is the range of our market now.
I don't think we overpaid for Digne,otherwise we would have gone for the "unproven" players you dislike.
Paco?I doubt we bought him to be Suarez heir though we might think he may make it happen. but he is a highly rated striker in a bad team that we took risk after most players in the market shut us down,if Valencia wasn't such a mess he probably would have never wanted to come either.


4-Denis case was that simple,in today market he is worth at least 20M. Look I've been his biggest critic but the guy has proven me wrong plenty of time so while I am still convinced I don't want to bet against him anymore. but if this kid was completly owned by Villarreal he would have been probably sold for 30M+
The case was really that simple,if we didn't exercise his contract then we have given up on a player we paid 3M for free. if we exercise the option then we get a player who is worth way more than we paid.
Man City add ons are 800k for every 10 games with maximum 8M. if he played 50 games here in the next couple of years then he already worth more than what we paid.
Again no way a sane sporting director would have passed on the opportunity.

 

[Jombi]

We definitely overpaid for Digne considering we needed a LB who could also play RB. Players like Sidibe, Ricardo Pereira and Bruno Peres would have done the job and wouldnt have cost more than Digne. Instead we are stuck with Vidal as the solution whenever Roberto is out. That is unacceptable.

Rakitic and Alba had a year left on their contract and that halves the price, roughly speaking. To not take contract duration into account when assessing prices is not constructive. Thats why Gundogan cost 25m as well.

 

[gasgas]

[MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION], I know, Masch and Mathieu are old and almost finished.
But what annoys me is this:
You can buy these type of players for more or less any position:
1. 18-19 years old, high potential, unproven, huge risk, like Halilovic, Jesus etc
2. 22 years old like Denis, Digne etc. Still a lot of risk, but they have potentially a nice resell value
3. proven players at their prime, aged 25-26, who can still play on a top level easily 4-5-6 years. They cost more than 22 years, but they bring much less risk and they can add an immediate impact to a team right now
4. players aged 28, who aren't a (too huge) risk, since they are proven already. A con is that they can play "only" 3-4-5 years and that they cost more
5. short term replacements, aged 30, 31, 32, 33 who can jump in and play awesome for 1-2-3 seasons (Larsson, even Mathieu etc)

Now, in my eyes, a player is a player, no matter if he is aged 18, 22, 25, 28 or 32.
If we need a RB right now, to win La liga and compete for a CL while we have Messi and MSN, I am not interested in Cancelo and guys who are yet to learn how to play as a RB, and who are yet to have some world class performances and similar and who could be potentially good in 2021'.
A youngster may seem like a nice longterm future (he will be our player for the next 10 years, as people here like to dream), but a 28 or 32 year old guy will offer a right-now, short-term fix and can be a decisive factor right now in winning some title.

Since we have no idea what we will do with a RB in a future, since:
1. Roberto may turn awesome
2. Roberto may turn as not good enough after we see him play 50+ matches as a RB
3. we may turn to Bellerin
4. we may turn to god knows who

Since our board has zero ideas what will happen with a RB spot in the next 2-3 years, isn't it better to buy Srna (or even Lichtsteiner, even though people say that he is not good enough, so ok) than Cancelo or some similar guy?
Imagine a CL semis and Roberto is injured again.
Would you be happier with Srna/Licht against Bayern, or against Cancelo who will probably end as a new Vidal, a winger who will try to learn defending eventually.
So, would you rather have a NT player who played for 15 years on NT level as a RB, or a guy who will try to learn some basics of defending in the next few Months?

This is just one example.
We don't need to suddenly buy 10 players aged 22.
Players aged 25 are good also.
Players aged 28 are good also.
Players aged 30-32 can help also.

About our current signings, I know that it is way too early.
Umtiti looks like a potential starter.
Gomes has a potential to end as an awesome midfielder, but he will need to work and learn a lot till then.
I gave up personally on Denis long time ago (as a future starter material).
Paco, if he'll improve he can be a squad player. He doesn't look as Barca's next Suarez at all. (We need world class Cfs always. Nothing less is good enough for us).
Digne, a good squad player, overpaid a lot.
Cillessen, it seems that he won't play too much at all.

So, not all Robert's transfers are bad.
But he is overpaying a lot for young squad players who are ONLY squad players and don't bring too much to a team currently (except Lucho's rotation which isn't working at all currently).

Further, about youngsters having a good resell value, look at Vidal.
Bought for 25-30 M (right?), failed here, and now we will sell him for probably 4-8 Millions.
His resell value is gone.
We will lose 15-20 Millions on him.
That way, we could have easily bought a 29 years old proven, world class RB, had him for 2-3-4 season, paid 10 Millions for him (transfer fee) and lose 10 Millions on him (resell value).
At least we would get some product and some impact on a field.
If we can buy an oldie for 5-10 Millions and if he will offer an impact an improvement to our team for 2-3 seasons, then that money is not a lost money, and it is imo worth more than 18M for Digne, 30M for Vidal and similar.

About Denis, and about 3M transfer, isn't his transfer in the end more like 12-15 M (money paid to Manc City, then money paid after 2 loans and after Villareal-Sevilal switch, plus additional money which will be paid to Manc City for each 10-20 matches played)?
So, if Denis will be a 12-15M guy, then his transfer also isn't such a straightforward and simple win-win deal (if he ends as a squad player and get shipped in 2 years).

For my taste, Robert is buying too many squad players for a lot of money (since they are young and they cost a lot) and we have too less actual impact on a field currently.
If he'll now buy a young RB Cancelo for a lot of money, then 2 young expensive (and unproven/risky) Cbs, well, we'll see how his reign will end in the end.

** I know that it is way too early, but some questions can already be asked, imo.

10 M for a worldclass, proven 29 year old RB?

Dreamland? That should cost minimum 35 m
And will most likely leave on a free trans

We definitely overpaid for Digne considering we needed a LB who could also play RB. Players like Sidibe, Ricardo Pereira and Bruno Peres would have done the job and wouldnt have cost more than Digne. Instead we are stuck with Vidal as the solution whenever Roberto is out. That is unacceptable.

Rakitic and Alba had a year left on their contract and that halves the price, roughly speaking. To not take contract duration into account when assessing prices is not constructive. Thats why Gundogan cost 25m as well.

We needed at RB that can play LB or vice versa is a myth

When the transfer window started it was established that we have two RBs Sergi and Vidal.
Many here even thought that Vidal would be the starter, so we didn't have the need for a RB until when Vidal started showing his true colors. The club was counting on him to improve and show his worth, and it's okay based on his past performances at Sevilla it was expected that he would come good just like how Arda did
When he started performing that's when the need arises, and you don't go ballistic trying to fix a RB problem when there's a huge lack of quality in the market

 

[Jombi]

We needed at RB that can play LB or vice versa is a myth

A myth that our LB signing should have been able to play RB? Thats absurd. It was painfully obvious. Not only would a LB that could play RB get more playing time and be more content (how long will Digne stay?), but it would also give us more backup at RB for Roberto. It was very obvious and a no-brainer. There is not "huge lack of quality in the market". Thats just ignorance, plain and simple.

 

[gasgas]

A myth? Thats absurd. It was painfully obvious. Not only would a LB that could play RB get more playing time and be more content (how long will Digne stay?), but it would also give us more backup at RB for Roberto. It was very obvious. There is not "huge lack of quality in the market". Thats just ignorance, plain and simple.

Truth is none of those players who can play RB and LB are good enough for Barca,
They can not play at the level Barca desires

So Yeah just the fact that none of thwm had enough quality is proof that we don't need one for Barca because he doesnt exist

Prove to me that there is no " huge lack of quality in the market"

 

[Jombi]

Truth is none of those players who can play RB and LB are good enough for Barca,
They can not play at the level Barca desires

So Yeah just the fact that none of thwm had enough quality is proof that we don't need one for Barca because he doesnt exist

Prove to me that there is no " huge lack of quality in the market"

You want me to prove to you to rate players you havent watched before? There is no "truth" to what you say. You are confusing your uninformed opinion with "truth".

But it is totally irrelevant. A LB that could play RB was a no brainer. Regardless of whether you think such a player exists or not.

 

[gasgas]

You want me to prove to you to rate players you havent watched before? There is no "truth" to what you say. You are confusing your uninformed opinion with "truth".

But it is totally irrelevant. A LB that could play RB was a no brainer. Regardless of whether you think such a player exists or not.

I'm sure plenty knowledgeable and informed Barca fans are excited at the prospect of Sidika coming to play as backup LB/RB

Quality is very easy to identify

 

[Jombi]

I'm sure plenty knowledgeable and informed Barca fans are excited at the prospect of Sidika coming to play as backup LB/RB

Quality is very easy to identify

I dont care about how "excited" you feel. Just because you havent heard about them and cant even spell the name doesnt mean you are in a position to judge.

 

[gasgas]

I dont care about how "excited" you feel. Just because you havent heard about them and cant even spell the name doesnt mean you are in a position to judge.

If you read my text carefully you would know I am talking about "knowledgeable fans"

You excluded me from the start
So I am talking about the rest of them, who are knowledgeabls

 

[Jombi]

If you read my text carefully you would know I am talking about "knowledgeable fans"

You excluded me from the start
So I am talking about the rest of them, who are knowledgeabls

You are the one who are judging players you cant even spell the name of. Thats what we are talking about.

 

[gasgas]

No that's not what we are talking about

You said i was a fan without knowledge on the player, so i am not allowed to judge.
I assumed you're right and so i asked
What do knowledgeable Barca fans think. Are they excited at the prospect of one of those players playing for us, are they excited that this player is quality enough to play for Barca

What are the expert opinions on these players?

I assumed total ignorance and I am ready to be educated by the experts

 

[Jombi]

No that's not what we are talking about

You said i was a fan without knowledge on the player, so i am not allowed to judge.
I assumed you're right and so i asked
What do knowledgeable Barca fans think. Are they excited at the prospect of one of those players playing for us, are they excited that this player is quality enough to play for Barca

What are the expert opinions on these players?

I assumed total ignorance and I am ready to be educated by the experts

This is just meaningless nonsense. Hard to take this seriously.

 

[gasgas]

This is just meaningless nonsense. Hard to take this seriously.

Then don't
It's a free world
You have a free will
It's your brain, your thinking
etc etc

 

[Messi983]

These directors should look under a word "balance" in a dictionary.
Buy some youngsters, buy some oldies, buy some Brasilians, buy some Arsenal's players, buy some players who don't fit any of these criteria.

No more Arsenal players. I'd rather buy ten 22 yo players than one single Arsenal player.

martin caceres is FA could sign him straight away but noo

Isn't he still injured and that's why he didn't sign with any team yet? He's not good enough for us anyway.

That way, we could have easily bought a 29 years old proven, world class RB, had him for 2-3-4 season, paid 10 Millions for him (transfer fee) and lose 10 Millions on him (resell value).

For my taste, Robert is buying too many squad players for a lot of money (since they are young and they cost a lot) and we have too less actual impact on a field currently.

1. And who would be that 29 years old worldclass RB that we could buy for 10M?

2. It was said that we need to improve our bench after what happened in April last season. We did exactly that with our signings this summer. You are mentioning starters way too much for my liking. It's still very hard for every player to come straight into our best XI, especially in midfield and of course attack. But every team needs to have 18-20 reliable first team players and I think we have that now. Last season we had first XI, MATS, Roberto and Mathieu and that was about it. So in general I think we improved our squad in all lines except GK.

Yes, Umtiti and Gomes are only players that have shown so far they could be future starters but we are only 2 months into the season so others deserve more time to prove themselves. I think Digne, Denis and Paco will also be good squad players and Cillessen (his signing wasn't planed before the summer but we needed to do something after Bravo decided to leave) is clearly a backup for MATS. So let's say we'll get 1-2 potential longterm starters (I strongly believe Umtiti will stay here for a long time and Gomes probably too) and 2-3 good backups. That's really not bad.

About prices, it's just the world we live in. But I think spending around 120M for overall improving of the squad is a lot better than invest almost as much on just one player like Pogba. I think we are better team now than we'd been had we buy Pogba and keep the likes of Vermaelen, Adriano and Sandro as our backups because there wouldn't be enough money to improve other positions.