Barça's Transfers and Rumors

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Messi983

Senior Member
I like your posts they are very thought-through :) What you are saying is right, but I will add something: Players for our 'long-term-future' doesn't have to sit on our bench. If we began making more deals like Vallejo in Zaragoza or Kranevitter in River Plate or someone like that, that would be very healthy. We have done that in midfield with Suarez and Halilovic, but needs to follow this strategy even more - and actually in most other areas of the field as well. If this happens, a 29-year old Nolito or a Gameiro would not be the end of the world, but without such supplementary signings we have too few options in the future.

Thanks. :) Maybe you missed it but I mentioned in some of my previous posts here that I'd continue to do what we've done with Denis and Alen and continue to bring in younger players to let them develop in Barça B before loaning them out for a season or two. I would concentrate on smaller La Liga clubs because there is a lot of unpolished talent there and they all have buyout clauses, some of them are probably also pretty low or their clubs have to sell because they need money (this could change in 3 or 4 years with new TV money so we should probably be quick with that). Second option I think we should research is try to "steal back" La Liga talents that EPL and maybe some other clubs have poached over the last years and are somehow forgotten or overlooked in their academies. I guess there are other players like Denis who are maybe considering returning home to Spain if they feel they won't make it to their current club first team soon. We could offer them some more time to develop. Yes, we'd probably need to be lucky to get another player like Denis (at least what he seems to be, he still needs to prove himself here) but it's worth at least to think about that.

And last but not least. Continue to scout all other European non-top 5 leagues, South America, Africa and other continents for every possible talent we could find. I don't believe our scouting is really as bad as general perception here is. It's just that over the last 10-15 years we had a luxury to enjoy the best generation of La Masia we ever had. Times have changed and now we need a bit more of outside help but we should still continue to get as much talent of all ages to and through La Masia. We'll probably never get new Messi or Xavi but we could get a lot of players like Pique, Roberto, Rafinha,.. who could save us a lot of money and continue to bring success. Just have some faith. I can respect different opinions but I'm always sad when I read that some people are already giving up on Rafinha and Suarez (yes, he's not exactly La Masia product but I still consider him as one of ours) and think they'll never be good enough to be starters here.

Munir out on loan is a good idea, but only getting Gameiro is not - Sandro also played earlier this year, so we will need more bodies there, preferable a young CF as well. Of course if Lucho uses D.Suarez/Rafinha/Turan as wingers we just might have enough players there. It is just dangerous to think that we will go through next season with as few injuries as this and last year - other teams don't have our luck in that respect, and we should cover ourselves better if it changes.

Yes, I think we are good enough covered at both wingers positions with players you mentioned and Vidal could also play RW sometimes if we keep Alves. Lucho loves Rafinha and he'll find a way to get him on the field just like he did with Roberto. I think he'll like Denis too. As I already mentioned a couple of times with the way MSN is working (and with Lucho obviously being affraid to sub either of them, especially Ney and Messi) I don't believe investing a big money into a young forward and then let him root on the bench for the next few years would be a smart decision.

I know some people here would be elated if we'd buy 3 or 4 18-19 years old wonderkids but what would that help us short term (if Lucho wouldn't trust them to play in important games if needed) and longterm (if their development would be stalled because they wouldn't play regularly)? Yes, we'd be a younger team on paper but not necessary better. This is real life, not FM. And yes, I like to buy all the possible talents I could get there as well, I just try to be more realistic in real life. :)

That's why I understand our interest in Gameiro. Of course we could maybe find someone cheaper and/or younger but based on our past experience with Sevilla players I think he would turn out to be another good, if not great transfer. Would anyone still complain if we get him and he helps us to win another 2 CL titles over the next 4 years? Most likely, because we are Barça fans and always have to complain about something :) but personally I would be perfectly happy with him. And I believe he's the kind of player that could help us getting trophies.


1 new CB is not enough either - for Wednesdays game we will use Bartra, our 5th option in CB-spot. If both him and Vermaelen goes we need two new CB's. Both young, but a teenager as 5th option would be all right and good long-term thinking (CB's rarely steps right into a team and perform right away so getting young ones in to acclimatize to the squad/club would be good IMO).

I'd be ok with Tarin or another Barça B player (Borja Lopez trained with first team yesterday, so maybe Lucho likes him) as our 5th CB. Similar to what I said about young forwards I think our 5th CB wouldn't get anywhere near the minutes he needs to develop. Adapting to the club and training alongside some of the best players in the world is great, but at the end of the day I believe you can improve the most if you play every week, even at smaller club. So I prefer to either use one of the current B team players or buy young CB for Barça B and let him train with first team occasionaly and get him a chance to play if needed. Another option is to buy a LB/RB like Jony Castro who could also play as CB.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm against buying a "developing" CB. In contrast, I totally support that idea and have already mentioned Jorge Mere who could be interesting (there are of course more players like him out there). But in his case I prefer to loan him back to Sporting if they stay in Primera or to another La Liga team to let him develop. He'd get around 6-8 times more minutes there as a starter than here as our 5th CB option.


I like this idea very much: Carefully assessing the market and getting what we need in midfield next summer, in a less overheated environment.
But if this window is the "Pogba or death"-window, where he leaves Juve, it is a bit unlucky timing for us (and yes I've fallen into the trap - I don't think anyone as good will be available out there for the next years).

I like Pogba but I just don't think we can afford another 200M+ investment (transfer fee+salary) at this time. It's better to try and find "a new" Pogba who's cheaper and more available. Maybe someone like Bazoer?
 

Messi983

Senior Member
So a midfield that is jsut as bad as it is now :/

A new young CB (dont spend whole transfer window tryign to get Marquinhos)
A rotation LB
A playmaking CM (Suarez not better than Turan, Turan not good enough, Rakitic dissapears in big games and can only run 45 minutes, all AMs)
A rotation FW.

Our midfield is not bad, it's just gased, because we didn't have a lot of rotation options for half of the season. Rafinha and Arda didn't played for 6 months and Denis didn't even played his first game for our first team yet and it seems you are already giving up on him. Just give them time and have some faith please. :)
 

oggmar

New member
Our midfield is not bad, it's just gased, because we didn't have a lot of rotation options for half of the season. Rafinha and Arda didn't played for 6 months and Denis didn't even played his first game for our first team yet and it seems you are already giving up on him. Just give them time and have some faith please. :)

I think our midfield lacks creativity and is just old but thats just me
 

BarçaBarça

New member
I mentioned in some of my previous posts here that I'd continue to do what we've done with Denis and Alen and continue to bring in younger players to let them develop in Barça B before loaning them out for a season or two.

Great, then we agree :)

I don't believe investing a big money into a young forward and then let him root on the bench for the next few years would be a smart decision.

Possible not, but we have to be covered better in case of injuries. No big money should be spend here for sure, but we need at least 2 real backups for MSN and then the wingers. We can't risk Suarez supended + Neymar slight discomfort = No attackers on the bench! That said it seems like Pique is our MSN-backup when things are not working, with him in the box the last 15 minutes, when we press desperately to score. So I don't think it will happen anyway - 1 backup will be bought, and of course I hope D.Suarez/Vidal/Arda/Rafinha proves that nothing more is needed and stay fit.

So I prefer to either use one of the current B team players or buy young CB for Barça B and let him train with first team occasionaly and get him a chance to play if needed. Another option is to buy a LB/RB like Jony Castro who could also play as CB.

We still disagree here, because I don't see Mascherano staying with us as long as people might think. He has said that he wants to go back to Argentina when he can still make a difference. We need to think about that, but also that Mathieu, who has been quite all right as a CB-sub, maybe will not be after his forced, risky surgery + he is quite old in the first place. That means 1 CB with potential to take Mascherano's spot is not enough.

I prefer to loan him back to Sporting if they stay in Primera or to another La Liga team to let him develop. He'd get around 6-8 times more minutes there as a starter than here as our 5th CB option.

If we get a LB who can play CB as second position we can make it through at least next season, but IMO we still need to buy a younger CB and then maybe loan him out. That way we still get a new CB for long term future, who still get playing time. I would agree that this scenario would be ideal, but maybe also too near-perfect transfer-strategic planning for this board to manage.

I like Pogba but I just don't think we can afford another 200M+ investment (transfer fee+salary) at this time. It's better to try and find "a new" Pogba who's cheaper and more available. Maybe someone like Bazoer?

No, we can't afford him - and I am a little disappointed if he really demands a huge salary, we really should not get him if he won't accept that he can't earn as much as our key-players right from the start. But replacing Iniesta in 2 years time will be incredibly hard, and I have a hard time imagining that we can find someone ½ as good among now-young players. Pogba seems like a safe bet (although expensive) and not many like that are available. If he stays this summer, maybe we have a shot next summer-window? I'm not quite sure he is worth it - we shouldn't sacrifice our CB-plans and so on because of him - but it could also cost a lot of money to trial-and-error among upcomming midfielders/other available CMs as Iniesta-replacements.
 

Aryagorn

Improvin' Perfection!!
I think our midfield lacks creativity and is just old but thats just me
We just need to bring Denis Suarez back and we have Rafinha.... Together they can solve all our mid field issues. Hope Rafinha finds his form again and Denis actually clicks for us(He probably would too, considering he did well for both Sevilla, who sort of play direct football, and Villarreal who try to play free-flow lower-tempo passing football)

And going by the rumors that we are actually looking for a RB to replace Alves, seems like Lucho counts Sergi Roberto as a CM and Lucho has played the duo of Busi and Sergi before using Sergi as a box-to-box player.

We are actually stacked in mid field man. Only, even the peak of this stacked mid field is no where near the level of the mid field from our glory days when we had prime Xaviiesta. But it would probably remain so for a very long time! After all prime Xaviesta was a once in a lifetime duo!!
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Thanks. :) Maybe you missed it but I mentioned in some of my previous posts here that I'd continue to do what we've done with Denis and Alen and continue to bring in younger players to let them develop in Barça B before loaning them out for a season or two. I would concentrate on smaller La Liga clubs because there is a lot of unpolished talent there and they all have buyout clauses, some of them are probably also pretty low or their clubs have to sell because they need money (this could change in 3 or 4 years with new TV money so we should probably be quick with that). Second option I think we should research is try to "steal back" La Liga talents that EPL and maybe some other clubs have poached over the last years and are somehow forgotten or overlooked in their academies. I guess there are other players like Denis who are maybe considering returning home to Spain if they feel they won't make it to their current club first team soon. We could offer them some more time to develop. Yes, we'd probably need to be lucky to get another player like Denis (at least what he seems to be, he still needs to prove himself here) but it's worth at least to think about that.

And last but not least. Continue to scout all other European non-top 5 leagues, South America, Africa and other continents for every possible talent we could find. I don't believe our scouting is really as bad as general perception here is. It's just that over the last 10-15 years we had a luxury to enjoy the best generation of La Masia we ever had. Times have changed and now we need a bit more of outside help but we should still continue to get as much talent of all ages to and through La Masia. We'll probably never get new Messi or Xavi but we could get a lot of players like Pique, Roberto, Rafinha,.. who could save us a lot of money and continue to bring success. Just have some faith. I can respect different opinions but I'm always sad when I read that some people are already giving up on Rafinha and Suarez (yes, he's not exactly La Masia product but I still consider him as one of ours) and think they'll never be good enough to be starters here.



Yes, I think we are good enough covered at both wingers positions with players you mentioned and Vidal could also play RW sometimes if we keep Alves. Lucho loves Rafinha and he'll find a way to get him on the field just like he did with Roberto. I think he'll like Denis too. As I already mentioned a couple of times with the way MSN is working (and with Lucho obviously being affraid to sub either of them, especially Ney and Messi) I don't believe investing a big money into a young forward and then let him root on the bench for the next few years would be a smart decision.

I know some people here would be elated if we'd buy 3 or 4 18-19 years old wonderkids but what would that help us short term (if Lucho wouldn't trust them to play in important games if needed) and longterm (if their development would be stalled because they wouldn't play regularly)? Yes, we'd be a younger team on paper but not necessary better. This is real life, not FM. And yes, I like to buy all the possible talents I could get there as well, I just try to be more realistic in real life. :)

That's why I understand our interest in Gameiro. Of course we could maybe find someone cheaper and/or younger but based on our past experience with Sevilla players I think he would turn out to be another good, if not great transfer. Would anyone still complain if we get him and he helps us to win another 2 CL titles over the next 4 years? Most likely, because we are Barça fans and always have to complain about something :) but personally I would be perfectly happy with him. And I believe he's the kind of player that could help us getting trophies.




I'd be ok with Tarin or another Barça B player (Borja Lopez trained with first team yesterday, so maybe Lucho likes him) as our 5th CB. Similar to what I said about young forwards I think our 5th CB wouldn't get anywhere near the minutes he needs to develop. Adapting to the club and training alongside some of the best players in the world is great, but at the end of the day I believe you can improve the most if you play every week, even at smaller club. So I prefer to either use one of the current B team players or buy young CB for Barça B and let him train with first team occasionaly and get him a chance to play if needed. Another option is to buy a LB/RB like Jony Castro who could also play as CB.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm against buying a "developing" CB. In contrast, I totally support that idea and have already mentioned Jorge Mere who could be interesting (there are of course more players like him out there). But in his case I prefer to loan him back to Sporting if they stay in Primera or to another La Liga team to let him develop. He'd get around 6-8 times more minutes there as a starter than here as our 5th CB option.




I like Pogba but I just don't think we can afford another 200M+ investment (transfer fee+salary) at this time. It's better to try and find "a new" Pogba who's cheaper and more available. Maybe someone like Bazoer?

I agree with most of the points you raise but have Couple of notes :
1-We need to work on keeping our La Masia product better .that is essential
Imagine if our 4th attacker was 23 years old Icardi , with Sanabria & Keita Baldé instead of Munir &Sandro .Bellerin instead of Vidal & Thiago instead of Arda .!! would anyone have complained about the decline of La Masia?
I understand that you always gotta lose some ,and that some of them could have developed less in a more talented with extra pressure Barca 1st team .but the fact remain is that we are losing our best talents .
In 2003 & 2004 we lost Cesc & Pique .after that Laporta and Txiki was vocal about keeping our own talents . since then the best players we lost until 2011 was the likes of Fran Mérida & Dani Pacheco .in 2011 alone we lost Icardi,Bellerin & Keita. something has changed .and it has to be fixed .

2-As for Gamiero ,I like him as a player and really rate him highly ,but 2 of MSn are 1987 born (i.e will be 29 next season) and Gamiero is just as old .those are 3 players out of our 4 main rotation attacker 29 . It won't look gr8

3-I talked about Denis at his thread ,his fit is a bit worrisome to me .he has been a winger this year and to some extent last year and it seem he is more comfortable there .thing is he is more of a RM/LM than a RWF/LWF .just like Arda
Him ,Arda & Rafinh all seem capable of being a serviceable in midfield or wings .but non are really good at it . Non seem to play in their natural positionhere and I think Denis will be the same case .It is a question of fit not only about how good they are

4-Borja Lopez trained with 1st team because he is suspended ,there is an unwritten role that when a Barca B player get suspended train with 1st team to get some experience there
 

Messi983

Senior Member
We still disagree here, because I don't see Mascherano staying with us as long as people might think. He has said that he wants to go back to Argentina when he can still make a difference. We need to think about that, but also that Mathieu, who has been quite all right as a CB-sub, maybe will not be after his forced, risky surgery + he is quite old in the first place. That means 1 CB with potential to take Mascherano's spot is not enough.

If we get a LB who can play CB as second position we can make it through at least next season, but IMO we still need to buy a younger CB and then maybe loan him out. That way we still get a new CB for long term future, who still get playing time. I would agree that this scenario would be ideal, but maybe also too near-perfect transfer-strategic planning for this board to manage.

1. I think Masche will stay for at least 2 more seasons. We'll get his longterm replacement this season. So next season we'll have Pique, Masche, new CB (whichever of Marquinhos, Laporte, Stones, Bailly and other 100 names that are rumoured,...), Mathieu. If we also buy a developing CB he can replace Mathieu in 2017/18 as 4th CB (but to be fair I believe Mathieu will also be here for two more seasons if Lucho stays) and if he performs well could even challenge Masche to be our 3rd option. So we'll have at least 2 years to find that 4th CB. How many teams have a great 4th CB though?

2. I'll give Robert a benefit of the doubt.

1-We need to work on keeping our La Masia product better .that is essential
Imagine if our 4th attacker was 23 years old Icardi , with Sanabria & Keita Baldé instead of Munir &Sandro .Bellerin instead of Vidal & Thiago instead of Arda .!! would anyone have complained about the decline of La Masia?

4-Borja Lopez trained with 1st team because he is suspended ,there is an unwritten role that when a Barca B player get suspended train with 1st team to get some experience there

1. I'm not talking about the decline of La Masia, just that's unlikely we'll ever have as good home-grown generation at the same time as we had over the past decade. Players you mentioned had developed good in other clubs but for me they are more like Pedro, Alba or maybe even Pique (so good consistent players that made their career here) but not absolute top tier players like Messi or Xaviesta.

If I remember correctly Icardi had a lot of discipline problems and that's why we let him go. And Sanabria wanted to leave. Yes, he's currently playing good at Sporting but we'll still have to see if he can perform at Roma (if he returns there) or another better club before saying we made a mistake for choosing Munir over him. I still believe in Munir's future at the club.

As I already said a week or two ago Thiago wanted to leave so I don't care about him anymore and personally I don't really rate Bellerin that high.

2. Didn't know that about Borja. He could still be an option though. He was considered a good talent some years ago when Monaco bought him. He's only 22 and maybe could still turn out to be a solid player.
 

frog-fcb

Senior Member
More to the point what is the upcoming la masia players like for the next few seasons. Perhaps they are the reason the club is currently looking for players around the 28-29 year old region as to keep the door open for the youth coming through. Perhaps they plan for the likes of alena/kaptoum etc to make the grade within the next few seasons to replace the likes of arda and co
 

SeloBarca

Senior Member
We are actually stacked in mid field man. Only, even the peak of this stacked mid field is no where near the level of the mid field from our glory days when we had prime Xaviiesta. But it would probably remain so for a very long time! After all prime Xaviesta was a once in a lifetime duo!!

Our midfield is stacked with all the wrong midfielders that arent on Barcelona level.
Rafinha, Suarez, Arda and maybe even Rakitic arent at needed level. Rafinha and Suarez are midtable players. Turan doesnt fit our style. Rakitic is a backup to Iniesta.
There are better players available that wont cost to much.

I think our midfield lacks creativity and is just old but thats just me

Agreed, none of our midfielders are of the creative type.
 

xXKonan

Senior Member
According to GLOBO.

We are are scouting Corinthians right back Fagner,as a replacement for Alves.
 
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Utopia:

1. first team - best players, world class, play most of the matches
2. second team - high quality players that adequatly replace those from first team that need rest, are injured, have ban or just should be rotated
3. third team - La Masia youngsters, that would get some minutes or entire matches against 3. league opponents in CDR so they are tested to prove their abbilitys, feel the pitch and get use to play in first squad

Our reality:

1. first team - best players, world class, play most games
2. second team - mix of mediocre old and unproven youngster MFlders, R/LBs, CBs.

We must brake our record in spending this summer and buy World Class, relatively young (24-28), proven players that can make an impact immediately and great young talents for the future. Let's spend big this summer and be out of market for 2 years, building the team and saving money for next potential emergency like this.

Buying expensive Suki and Neymar paid out great, didn't it?

I wish we had great scouts like Atleti so we can fill all our holes with 40 M - but we just don't have scouts like that. Period.

Others will spend like crazy and make superpowerfull teams... we can't compete with team thin like this... we are not oiler's club-they spend 250 M each year. We will spend big now and who knowss wnen again. But without huge spending I can't see us being decent competitor...
 

Jombi

New member
More to the point what is the upcoming la masia players like for the next few seasons. Perhaps they are the reason the club is currently looking for players around the 28-29 year old region as to keep the door open for the youth coming through. Perhaps they plan for the likes of alena/kaptoum etc to make the grade within the next few seasons to replace the likes of arda and co

No, thats just excuses made. It was the same excuses when we bought assorted garbage in order to "make room for Tello, Dongou, Assulin, Deulofeu, Bartra, Cuenca, Jonathan and Gio dos Santos etc etc." Its not a recent thing.

The reason we are buying older players is that is what Lucho and our other former managers prefer, probably because they are terrified of losing their job and dont want to plan long term. He doesnt really rate La Masia players or young players in other teams. Lucho prefers players like Nolito who he knows from the past. Players he hasnt coached or watched extensively in La Liga over the years, not so much.
 
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