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LMessi85
New member
I hope you're right.
ebc_99
Active member
That's what some very stupid people are saying unfortunately. Messi's best is yet to come
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LMessi85
New member
Players are mostly in their prime between 27-30 is what i always heard. I am/was very positive that Messi isn't playing "less" because of his skills. I'm sure it's got to do with motivation as someone mentioned before. So, he'll be back.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
The guys who claim that we don't need a tall striker or any plan B.
2012: we lost to Chelsea on counterattacks with Tiki-Taka
2013: we lost to Bayern on counterattacks with sterile Tiki-Taka
2014: we lost to Atletico on counterattacks with even more sterile Tiki-Taka
Last summer, after a Bayern's defeat, some users mentioned that Tiki-Taka is maybe dead, the others replied: we just need to run/press more, and it will be fine.
One year later, we are even worse than in 2013.
So, the logical question is, to guys who support only Tiki-Taka from 2008, where is the line and what needs to happen that even you agree that we need some changes/adjustments/evolving in our system?
For example:
-- if 2015 will be equally as bad as this Season. Should we continue with Tiki-Taka or we should try some changes?
-- if 2016 will be equally as bad as 2015, should we continue further?
-- and later in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020?
WHAT IF we will see the same scenario against all big teams from now, in our future, where is the line when we should stop and change something?
Ok, if we will win trophies next Season with Tiki-Taka, awesome, then it is not dead.
But again, what IF NOT? And that is a very probable scenario?
How many times we have to lose, for you to give up also from the current Tiki-Taka?
I know, users will reply again: "We don't play Tiki-Taka at all currently" and people blame "bad" coaches and players.
What if we don't play it as good anymore because:
1. strong opponents have learned how to neutralize it and it is not efficient in the attack anymore, no matter how much we press/run/make triangles? (and it will never be as efficient as in 2008')
2. what if Pep's team was the only team of players who could ever make it work perfectly, and what in neither Barca's future team will be able to execute it as good as Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in their prime years and when they were hungry for trophies?
So, ok. Maybe we really do run and press less. But then what if we will never be able to reach that level in the future?
Should we then try to play, the current, weaker version of Tiki-Taka and lose Season after Season, or we should then move to something else, more suitable to our CURRENT players, and not those from 2008?
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LMessi85
New member
You summed it up greatly. As much as i love tiki-taka, we have to have an open mind and seek for more options when we can't get through. Tiki-taka was at its best under PEP. PEP changed tactics during games when needed. Nobody had an answer. Nowadays, without PEP, it's a whole different story. We don't play Tiki-taka as good as we did under PEP. An other thing we did so great under PEP was the pressure thing. You can still see it sometimes but not as we used to do it. Our players would almost jump on the opponent to get the ball back. So yeah.. we need more variation and yes more than one plan.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
You summed it up greatly. As much as i love tiki-taka, we have to have an open mind and seek for more options when we can't get through. Tiki-taka was at its best under PEP. PEP changed tactics during games when needed. Nobody had an answer. Nowadays, without PEP, it's a whole different story. We don't play Tiki-taka as good as we did under PEP. An other thing we did so great under PEP was the pressure thing. You can still see it sometimes but not as we used to do it. Our players would almost jump on the opponent to get the ball back. So yeah.. we need more variation and yes more than one plan.
I also love Tiki-Taka. I also adored Ronaldinho, but one day he was not the good old Ronaldinho anymore, and we needed to change something and move, you probably get my point.
About our famous pressing and triangles, I will repeat 1000s of times:
1. yes, maybe we run/press/play triangles less, it can be fixed with more running and pressing. Even though I don't believe that a problem is there.
2. we run less/play less triangles because our opponents have learned during years how to adjust their formation so that our triangles become ineffective
Also, how to play triangles if Real plays a parked bus? They haven't played a bus in 2008 and we were able to play triangles then.
Today, top teams play in a way to totally neutralize our system from 2008. So, it may look that OUR PLAYERS are guilty, but maybe they don't have enough spaces like in a 2008'
3. The same is with pressing. What if we don't press less, but the opponents have just figured out how to NOT lose the ball against our pressing?
In 2008, we would attack them and press like crazy and they didn't know how to react and they were just losing balls over and over?
What if today they learned tricks, and when our players lose the ball and when we press them (for example Alves loses the ball on the right side and immidiately he, Xavi and Busquets press like in 2008, but today, the opponents have figured out the trick that they just have to wait a few seconds until those 3 players come close to you, and then you should just pass the ball to the opposite side, the left side of our defense in this case, and there will be a huge gap because 3 of our players Xavi, Alves and Busquets are now on the right side of the field and the opponent can create a dangerous 3:3 or 4:3 counterattack)?
Maybe I am just rambling with the example above, but for every formation/tactics, the opponents figure out tricks after 3-4-5 Years.
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Egert
Estonian Culé
Good post man. We won't give up Tiki-Taka but we need to change it alot. I don't know what but we won't start playing like Atletico or Chelsea (counterattacks).
About right apart from Xavi being left footed ...
I
instinct
Guest
We could Martinez for a double pivot. Last year he completely destroyed teams with Schweinsteiger next to him. Imagine what Martinez - Busquets could do 
But first sign a fckn CB.
But first sign a fckn CB.
I
instinct
Guest
Pjanic (Roma): "Barça have great players, their style suits me, like Roma's style now. Wouldn't be bad destination, good climate..." [lmtds]
We got outclassed once against Atletico in the cl and for about 20 mins against real madrid in la liga.
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