Camp Nou

[footyfan]

Principles first, money second. We won the sextuple mostly with our former cantera players, when the other teams we're speding the big bucks buying players. The Camp Nou looks fine to me, not all stadiums have to be mall-arenas.

What principles? Barca used to buy as much as Madrid in previous years. Just because they struck gold with one generation....

 

[Flavia]

Principles first, money second. We won the sextuple mostly with our former cantera players, when the other teams we're speding the big bucks buying players. The Camp Nou looks fine to me, not all stadiums have to be mall-arenas.

That's a romatic, and not at all practical, view. The Camp Nou is outdated. And if the club want to increase revenue, the stadium needs more VIP seats.
Also, players like Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, etc, won't come out of la masia every year.

 

[serghei]

What principles? Barca used to buy as much as Madrid in previous years. Just because they struck gold with one generation....

Not like Madrid.

 

[JamDav1982]

Not like Madrid.

Barcelona pay the biggest wages in world football and I would guess spend as much if not more than any club in the world on the youth players/b team structure.

As for Camp Nou it is out dated and the club are making a lot less on match days than other top teams despite getting massive crowds every week.

From the plans they are making the needed improvements and keeping the character of it.

 

[DennyCrane]

No chance will the Qatar sponsorship will fail due to them not being able to pay and if they did it would probably work in the clubs favour as they would most likely be able to negotiate a better deal elsewhere.

You say you are not against sponsorship so what kind would you feel comfortable with? As all would come into the criteria you point out.

Do you think the stadium should be left the way it is?

I'm not against modernizing/refacing the Camp Nou, but 600 million euros and the plan to finance it is madness.

And I'm not entirely sure whether Javier Faus is still thinking straight: After proudly announcing that the debt has been reduced to 200 mil EUR, he told the press that we'll take a loan.... over 200 mil EUR. And another 200 mil EUR will come from "internal sources".

His idea of financing the 200 mil from "internal sources" however is pretty... lets call it innovative.

We have to continue to reduce the debt and continue to generate the 30 million a year we have been doing [...] this is a new Camp Nou, which is sustainable and won’t put our sporting excellence at risk

So basically according to Faus, if the economic situation stays the same for the club, the country and the periphery like banks etc for the next 10 years, everything is secure.
What he fails to tell, is that the necessity to turn a 30 mil profit will come at the expense of other departments. You can call this what you want, but you can't call it sustainable. And we're still talking about only a 1/3 of the whole thing.

So that leaves us with 200 mil of the sponsor (the "internal source will effectively be sponsor money) while we carry the insolvency risk (likely or not) and 200 million based on a loan (rate+interest will also be sponsor money), while Faus pointed out how important debt reduction is. Another 150 mil we will gain from "title rights", as Faus put it - a term so vague it could be anything from distraining ticket revenue to giving away naming rights for certain blocks or the whole stadium. I don't even know what to say about this.


So all things considered, I would feel comfortable if it were on a smaller scale and wouldn't put the entire club at risk.

 

[Flavia]

 

[JamDav1982]

I'm not against modernizing/refacing the Camp Nou, but 600 million euros and the plan to finance it is madness.

And I'm not entirely sure whether Javier Faus is still thinking straight: After proudly announcing that the debt has been reduced to 200 mil EUR, he told the press that we'll take a loan.... over 200 mil EUR. And another 200 mil EUR will come from "internal sources".

His idea of financing the 200 mil from "internal sources" however is pretty... lets call it innovative.



So basically according to Faus, if the economic situation stays the same for the club, the country and the periphery like banks etc for the next 10 years, everything is secure.
What he fails to tell, is that the necessity to turn a 30 mil profit will come at the expense of other departments. You can call this what you want, but you can't call it sustainable. And we're still talking about only a 1/3 of the whole thing.

So that leaves us with 200 mil of the sponsor (the "internal source will effectively be sponsor money) while we carry the insolvency risk (likely or not) and 200 million based on a loan (rate+interest will also be sponsor money), while Faus pointed out how important debt reduction is. Another 150 mil we will gain from "title rights", as Faus put it - a term so vague it could be anything from distraining ticket revenue to giving away naming rights for certain blocks or the whole stadium. I don't even know what to say about this.


So all things considered, I would feel comfortable if it were on a smaller scale and wouldn't put the entire club at risk.

They are not putting the entire club at risk at all and if they are going to improve the stadium do it properly now. It is needed.


You are massively over reacting - I would guess coming from a decision that you don't like the board.

 

[coura]

Stop being romantic and naive. This is a new world. Show me the money. They should even rename the stadium. I dont care. I dont see any arsenal or bayern fan gatting annoyed by the millions of Allianz or Emirates. The oil clubs and Madrid are getting stronger. Money is needed.

The 90M for a 12000 pavillion is too much. The usual attendance as the Palau is 2000? 3000?

 

[Galning]

I've been to Camp Nou a bazillion times and it's not outdated at all. You guys make it sound like it can collapse any minute. The only reason why they'd want to renew it is because, as Flavia said, because of the VIP and other modern facilities that a club nowadays need. For the 90.000+ "regular" football fans who come to Camp Nou everything looks fine to me.

 

[JamDav1982]

I've been to Camp Nou a bazillion times and it's not outdated at all. You guys make it sound like it can collapse any minute. The only reason why they'd want to renew it is because, as Flavia said, because of the VIP and other modern facilities that a club nowadays need. For the 90.000+ "regular" football fans who come to Camp Nou everything looks fine to me.

I have been plenty of times and to other stadiums in England etc and it is dated compared to those.

They could be getting so much more out of the stadium than they do just now.

 

[Kerrybai]

That's sheep mentality, Kerry...Integrity is staying true to your principles, particularly when everyone else has abandoned them...And this is Barcelona, Més que en club

I realize the club had to adapt to modern football and how money is dictating everything (Mirroring the corporate world we live in) but look at the descent...Sponsors on the front of the kit, on the inside of it, now the stadium rights and soon Blaugrana spirit will be packaged and sold like a commodity...I'm originally American and I got tired of how much money was killing professional sports there, ruined many a game, for me...Sadly, I see it happening in football now as well and at some point clubs are going to have to maintain their identity rather than transform into a machine that will be hard to differentiate from one mega corporation or another

I don't feel that putting a sponsor on our jersey or renaming the stadium kills our identity. In fact the extra revenue would allow the club to increase their charity work with groups like Unicef etc.

I see where you are coming from and I too would not like our club to lose it's principles. However we didn't change the game, Chelsea, City, PSG etc did. Both transfer prices and wages have been skewed by the oil clubs. Meanwhile our biggest rival from the capital are rumoured to be selling the naming rights to their stadium.

http://www.abc.es/realmadrid/noticias/20140116/abci-bernabeu-cocacola-201401161430.html

'The Coca-Cola company is considering paying 80 million euros a year at Real Madrid to put his name at the Santiago Bernabeu, according Euromericas Sport Marketing . The offer can be considered dizzying and so far the white set was getting lower proposals that, according to this agency márkentig sports, would be willing to put on the table the brand of soda.

Real Madrid aims to use the amount that kick by 'rename' the stadium to finance renovations that, initially, is expected to begin later this season and stretch out two and a half years, until 2017.

In recent months, there have been many brands that have been associated with Real Madrid. Microsoft also confirmed at the time he was studying the Bernabeu put your name, but ultimately rejected the requests of Real Madrid. But club sources believe the computer brand has not lost interest.'

Not sure how much truth their is to that but if Madrid get a naming deal of that magnitude while we sit back and admire our principles we will gradually lose pace and be left behind.

Is winning at all costs too dear?

 

[jamrock]

i have no problem with the naming rights, i have resigned myself to the fact that we need the money to compete, what i do have a problem with the going inro bed with qatar especially given the fact that i dont think we are getting the money our brand deserves from them. qatar is every where in the club for 35m euros get oute here with that crap. especially after they gave freaking psg crazy money(yes i know they own the club) and especially given the money the likes of man utd and real are getting.

Give us the going rate for adding a "surname" and i am good. 50m per year a the least!!!!

also if rosell uses anything but the foster design(which he wont) i will slap him in the face, So i guess i am going to barcelona at some point.

 

[Kerrybai]

i have no problem with the naming rights, i have resigned myself to the fact that we need the money to compete, what i do have a problem with the going inro bed with qatar especially given the fact that i dont think we are getting the money our brand deserves from them. qatar is every where in the club for 35m euros get oute here with that crap. especially after they gave freaking psg crazy money(yes i know they own the club) and especially given the money the likes of man utd and real are getting.

Give us the going rate for adding a "surname" and i am good. 50m per year a the least!!!!

also if rosell uses anything but the foster design(which he wont) i will slap him in the face, So i guess i am going to barcelona at some point.

I think there will be a new design competition, out of spite rosell will probably won't include that design but perhaps foster will throw in a new design.

 

[Xtroverto]

Allianz Arena (2003) = 340m, 3 years, built from scratch
Foster Project (2007) = 250m, 2-3 years, remodelling

600m? Seems legit


edit: also, average attendance over the last decade. Why exactly do we need extra 10.000 seats?

To sell more season tickets. Right now there is a waiting list to buy a season ticket, in fact, there has been a waiting list the last 30 years. Camp Nou sell out the 85.000 season tickets every year and has done so since Camp Nou was expanded to 120.000 in 1982, until the 1990s, there were ca 100.000 season ticket holders, then it went down to ca 95.000 in 1994 and 90.000 from 1998 and forward. The last few years they have pushed down the number even further to around 85.000.

That list of average attendance for Camp Nou is meaningless, it is much higher, ca 85.000 season tickets + ca 30.000 matchday tickets, well in excess of 115.000 average attendance in sold seats.

 

[Catorce]

To sell more season tickets. Right now there is a waiting list to buy a season ticket, in fact, there has been a waiting list the last 30 years. Camp Nou sell out the 85.000 season tickets every year and has done so since Camp Nou was expanded to 120.000 in 1982, until the 1990s, there were ca 100.000 season ticket holders, then it went down to ca 95.000 in 1994 and 90.000 from 1998 and forward. The last few years they have pushed down the number even further to around 85.000.

That list of average attendance for Camp Nou is meaningless, it is much higher, ca 85.000 season tickets + ca 30.000 matchday tickets, well in excess of 115.000 average attendance in sold seats.

If they would just forbid selling your tickets to others on a frequent basis, we would FINALLY get rid of families having the season tickets in their possession for generations, 'renting' them for quadruple the amount to expats.