Champions League
- Thread starter El Flaco
- Start date
Barcilliant
Senior Member
There's a thing called winning mentality that ZZ has more of compared to any top manager.
You wouldn't know though. It can't be captured by xG.
Exactly!
There is also Real Madrids history with the competition. They pretty much always step up their game in CL. They also know how to deal with pressure when under the pump.
Barcelona still haven't come to terms with this competition. To win it we need to play very well and have a great team. Madrid know how to scrape through and win the big moments.
No way Madrid beats Bayern in a two-legged encounter, but in a final? I can see them eking out a win. Teams like Madrid and Bar?a rarely let it slip once they get to the final.
Also, Militao finally justified the ridiculous amount of money RM paid for him. His future depended on this game tbh.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Lately I have been thinking about Barca vs Real La Liga/CL phenomenon.
And the thing which you are talking about.
And imo, some things could be explained.
A lot of peope often say that Real sucks because we are better in La liga.
But, imo: in La liga we have 3 big clubs, 1-2 so so clubs and 15 Mickey Mouse teams.
Titles are not won in battles against big teams but in consistency vs small teams.
So, to win league tournaments, it is more important to figure out ways how to consistently win against small teams than finding way how to beat teams as strong as you.
While the CL KO matches are not matches against Getafe/Levante but tight 50:50 matches.
The 2nd element is: no pressure/no KO/no sudden death matches in La liga.
In league, you always know that if you lose, it is not the end and you have 20 more matches to turn the season around, unlike in CL KO matches.
So, it is possible to build a team of mentally soft players who will rule the league with their technique, but who will crumble every season in a CL under the slightest pressure.
Barca has this problem.
And again, Pep's City also.
His players are a good choir boy KDB, nice guys Bernardo, Sterling, Foden, Jesus.
Very technical players who will keep possession and usually win against weaker teams over 38 matches.
But in a CL they are always scared, often bullied and they easily crumble under pressure or lose confidence at 0:1.
On the other hand, teams like Real are not as good as Barca over 38 matches against smaller teams (Getafe/Levante type).
But they have a better recipe in 50:50 matches.
They play simpler, faster, more direct, less technical.
Their defense is better and less naive.
They have better mental strength and they don't lose head after 0:1.
And they have more true leaders and a few extremely driven, combative or even aggressive guys (Ramos, Casemiro).
My point:
1) for league: Barca's/Pep's style is the way to go over 38 rounds against weaker teams.
Nothing beats technique, possession and attacking against Getafe/Levante
2) yet for Europe, both Pep and Barca would need to pair: Barca's style + better defending + more mental strength + leaders, captains + a few combative players (Ramos + Casemiro type) + probably a simpler/faster/more direct gameplan at times.
Anyway, as time goes by, RM's CL success is not just luck.
They have figured out a good combo for a CL.
And a reply: they suck in La liga, doesn't mean too much in Europe.
Iirc, from the last 7 CL wins in 1998, 2000, 2002, 2014, 2016, 2017, 2018 = they were league champions only once in those 7 years.
League tournaments are = about winning against weaker teams
CL is about = playing 50:50 tight, high pressure, dirty matches all the time (with a sudden death lurking around a corner)
Stats:
Since Real started to win CL again from 1998'
League titles:
12 Barcelona
7 Real
CL titles:
7 Real
4 Barcelona
Since 1998, Real has won an equal number of La Ligas and CLs...
And if, for example, they win CL this season (and if Barca/Atletico win La Liga), Real would actually have more CLs than La Ligas since 98, lol.
You can be lucky once or twice, but not 7 or 8 times.
Even Liverpool: a horrible, horrible team for EPL, because they were not consistent against small teams.
On the other hand, Man Utd and Arsenal used to have "the answer" for small EPL teams, but sucked in Europe.
For example, since establishing EPL in 1993:
EPL titles:
13 Man Utd + 2 CL + 2 finals
1 Liverpool + 2 CLs + 2 finals
4 City = can't get past QF in a CL
5 Chelsea + 1 CL + 1 final
3 Arsenal + 1 CL final
For example:
Man utd, City, Arsenal, Chelsea combined = 25 EPL titles and 3 CLs
While Liverpool has 1 EPL and 2 CLs.
Or: Man Utd 13 EPLs and 2 CLs.
While Liverpool has 1 EPL and 2 CLs.
Some teams/coaches have figured out ways how to rule the league competition and how to consistently beat smaller domestic teams.
While others are masters of KO matches.
Further, imo, if a CL would have been played in a round-robin system (league competition) with 34 or 38 matches, I would again put my money on Pep and City.
But when a system changes to a KO matches, the story is way different.
The same is with NT teams.
If World cups would have been played in round robin, Spain would be the champion all the time.
Can you imagine Italy winning a World cup in 38 matches round-robin format? No way.
On the other hand, put Spain and Italy in a KO tournament and sudddenly the chances are 50:50 or in Italy's favor.
Very technical teams usually thrive in league competition.
But in KO system, the story is way more complicated.
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KingLeo10
Senior Member
Your theory falls apart quite a bit because Barcelona and United generally dominated their biggest rivals H2H as well in the league. Us v RM and especially AM while United v Arsenal and Chelsea. Though between 04 and 06, Chelsea dominated United (and Chelsea won the league those times).
JamDav1982
Senior Member
'Ive been thinking lately'....in reality it is the same theory peddled year after year although not heard it the past couple seasons when Real were out before Barca funnily enough.
Theory also falls apart when realise Barca won 3 of the 4 CLs with their most technical teams from 2009-2015 and really should have won more if not for small margins and dropping level at wrong time.
Cant beat AM time after time in the league and then lose to them in CL and claim it is because not set up to beat them.
While BBZ often argues that Rijkaard football was the norm and some peak to look back to when won 1 CL in a team that didnt hold at top for long.
The standard response will be 'but Barca had Messi'.. same Messi BBZ slates when it suits and same Messi who epitomizes the 'small technical' style.
Theory also falls apart when realise Barca won 3 of the 4 CLs with their most technical teams from 2009-2015 and really should have won more if not for small margins and dropping level at wrong time.
Cant beat AM time after time in the league and then lose to them in CL and claim it is because not set up to beat them.
While BBZ often argues that Rijkaard football was the norm and some peak to look back to when won 1 CL in a team that didnt hold at top for long.
The standard response will be 'but Barca had Messi'.. same Messi BBZ slates when it suits and same Messi who epitomizes the 'small technical' style.
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
Enjoyed Lpool getting schooled today, what a dislikable team.
Vilarrubi
New member
It’s that same tedious disappearing act on threads until a certain result happens... then a new essay appears. Getting boring now and no point even responding.
Also Pep’s “choirboys” knocked Madrid out of CL last year
but that’s conveniently left out.
jairzinho
Senior Member
Especially TAA. Guy thinks he's prime Dani Alves.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
A team with a strong mentality, strong defense and physicality will usually do well in cl.
BarcaOG
Banned
It’s that same tedious disappearing act on threads until a certain result happens... then a new essay appears. Getting boring now and no point even responding.
Also Pep’s “choirboys” knocked Madrid out of CL last year
good point!!
Horatio
You're welcome
It?s that same tedious disappearing act on threads until a certain result happens... then a new essay appears. Getting boring now and no point even responding.
Also Pep?s ?choirboys? knocked Madrid out of CL last year
But that's why we all love BBZ. Barcaforum would never be the same without having to scroll through those essays to get to the posts we do read.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
Quality of CL football has declined markedly in the last two to three years.
I don't think I've ever seen a weaker era in cl. Our Van Gaal teams would probably win this years edition.
I don't think I've ever seen a weaker era in cl. Our Van Gaal teams would probably win this years edition.
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