Claudio Bravo

[God Serena]

Well, I think having the best players in each position makes it more likely to win a competition. But I'm sorry if that sounds stupid to you. Maybe we should bench Messi and put a promising 17 year old on.

So I suppose in this analogy Bravo is Messi and Mats is the promising 17 year old? Well, if that 17 year old was somehow on a similar level to Messi with limited minutes and we'd have to make that decision, we'd choose the 17 year old. This is pretending you can only have one outfield player at a time, of course.

Actually, Bravo won alot more than 2 leagues with Barça as a starting player. But I'm not surprised you're once again mistaken.

The only competition Bravo starts is La Liga. All those other trophies aren't competitions. When Real Madrid only wins a SuperCup or CWC and fails to win anything else they're still considered to be trophyless.

 

[Yannik]

You just cannot blame MAtS because Bravo gets sold, seriously. Ter Stegen simply wants a permanent role at Barca, which is a completely natural ambition for every young player and telling the club about that is just a plain normal consequence. Of course it has been always been in one way or another an A) or B) dilemma and if one gets dropped, the other profits but that's just how it is. Both goalkeepers have treated this mutual rivalry with absolute professionalism and they never fell out with each other.

Its the decision of the club to include MAtS and not Bravo in their plans for a futuristic barca squad. In order to keep those plans intact it just so happens to be necessary that Bravo is getting sold, but putting the blame on the player here just because of ambitions or even just indicating that he was in any way "blackmailing" Barca is ludicrious. That's like saying I'd blackmail my company by negotisting over wages when I also have external offers on my table.
God forbid that football players are actual humans with plans for their careers.

 

[Mandrake]

How do you make them compete? Both of them think they deserve to be starter and one still wants to leave. It solves nothing by just saying 'compete'. Both will think they have been competing for past two years and have shown what they have.

Why does Bravo not stay and compete?

Club telling Bravo has was only starting CDR doesnt prove you right on anything. Other than Bravo was unhappy and like Ter Stegen forced club into choosing.

At least you have backed down on the 'black mailing' nonsense.

I've backed down from nothing. Bravo is leaving because the club caved under the MATS threats. Since he couldnt win the number 1 spot on the pitch, he had to force the club to make him number one by selling his competition. They preferred keeping the german to the chilean only because of his age - not because he has shown to be the better keeper.

And of course it proves alot if Bravo says he was told only to be starting in CDR - it shows he lost the number 1 competition against a player who hasnt performed as well as he has. And he has to leave.

 

[Flavia]

Can't compare Bravo to Messi. Really nonsensical to do that. Messi is the GOAT, the ultimate Barcelona legend. But if he asked to leave, he'd also be allowed to.

 

[Flavia]

I've backed down from nothing. Bravo is leaving because the club caved under the MATS threats. Since he couldnt win the number 1 spot on the pitch, he had to force the club to make him number one by selling his competition. They preferred keeping the german to the chilean only because of his age - not because he has shown to be the better keeper.

And of course it proves alot if Bravo says he was told only to be starting in CDR - it shows he lost the number 1 competition against a player who hasnt performed as well as he has. And he has to leave.

That's absolute rubbish. The club didn't cave, MAtS didn't force anything. Bravo is leaving because he doesn't want to share minutes anymore, as he had to the past 2 seasons. It's that simple. He saw he wasn't going to be playing CL and Liga, and decided what's best for himself. This club isn't some minor club to cave to any player threats. Not even Messi does that. This club is also not run by amateurs. If they thought Bravo was really much superior, they'd keep him, let mats go and find another gk. He'd never be kept for only being younger.

 

[JamDav1982]

I've backed down from nothing. Bravo is leaving because the club caved under the MATS threats. Since he couldnt win the number 1 spot on the pitch, he had to force the club to make him number one by selling his competition. They preferred keeping the german to the chilean only because of his age - not because he has shown to be the better keeper.

And of course it proves alot if Bravo says he was told only to be starting in CDR - it shows he lost the number 1 competition against a player who hasnt performed as well as he has. And he has to leave.

Why do the club have to bow to Ter Stegens threats when as you say there is a better keeper and they could get more for Ter Stegen?

There is no 'blackmail' or 'forcing club to pick him as No.1' when there is the option to keep Bravo.

Makes no sense at all no matter how many times you repeat it.

It is not 'only down to age' it is to do with age, current ability and what they think is better option for future of club.

So Bravo doesnt have to live by these rules of 'compete'? Only Ter Stegen has to live by that?

 

[oneirophobos]

Well, I think having the best players in each position makes it more likely to win a competition. But I'm sorry if that sounds stupid to you. Maybe we should bench Messi and put a promising 17 year old on.

Actually, Bravo won alot more than 2 leagues with Barça as a starting player. But I'm not surprised you're once again mistaken.

What an insane jump to make ... Newsflash, Mandrake: Claudio isn't Messi level in terms of football. He isn't even DDG or Neuer level, much less Buffon for that matter. He's a quality player with 2-5 years left on the clock and while ter Stegen in neither of those players either, it's plain laughable to compare him to Claudio in terms of a "Lionel Messi : random 17-year-old" paradigm. Laughable and quite sad because I know you meant that for real. You specifically talked about trebles. Must be hard to keep track of your own arguments when they're non-existent in the first place .. but you do you.

 

[God Serena]

I've backed down from nothing. Bravo is leaving because the club caved under the MATS threats. Since he couldnt win the number 1 spot on the pitch, he had to force the club to make him number one by selling his competition. They preferred keeping the german to the chilean only because of his age - not because he has shown to be the better keeper.

And of course it proves alot if Bravo says he was told only to be starting in CDR - it shows he lost the number 1 competition against a player who hasnt performed as well as he has. And he has to leave.

If age was the only motivating factor why are they sticking with Mats? Why not get Jose Suarez from the B team? Why not keep Bravo, sell Mats for the greater payout, and just bring up Inaki Pena when he's ready? Why is everything the club does directly contrary to the notion that Mats is only favored due to his age? Are you seriously trying to argue that the club is willing to shoot themselves in the foot and sell a superior keeper because the inferior one is making threats, purely because of age?

 

[JamDav1982]

The only thing Ter Stegen AND Bravo have 'forced' the club to do is make a choice.

 

[Mandrake]

So I suppose in this analogy Bravo is Messi and Mats is the promising 17 year old? Well, if that 17 year old was somehow on a similar level to Messi with limited minutes and we'd have to make that decision, we'd choose the 17 year old. This is pretending you can only have one outfield player at a time, of course.



The only competition Bravo starts is La Liga. All those other trophies aren't competitions. When Real Madrid only wins a SuperCup or CWC and fails to win anything else they're still considered to be trophyless.

Sorry, I didnt know only CDR, league and CL are competitions. Nice that you decided it so. Bravo won two Copa Americas with Chile too. Are they considered competitions? Or not under your criteria?

Good. So you've taken a bow off the ridiculous "the stats show MATS is a better keeper". Now they're on a similar level. Soon you'll be admitting Bravo has performed better at Barça.

 

[bismp]

To my understanding,BOTH players aren't content with the current setup(Bravo->Liga/Mats->CL and CDR).

BOTH of them made their disappointment and desire public.Whether you want to call this blackmail or just informing the people and the board is up to you.So, both players more or less threatened to leave if they wouldn't become the #1 goalkeeper in both the Liga AND the CL.(I am not saying it is wrong.Both are professionals and have to care for themselves).At this point,the board could do the following:

A)Choose either of them and inform the other one that he either has to settle with CDR and occasional matches in La Liga and CL when the #1 is injured or leave.This is the most honest thing to do.
B)Make both of them settle with the current setup(or a variation of it,possibly the exact opposite),which frankly is really hard to do,as not one,but both of them want more.
C)Deceive the one of them into thinking that he would be #1 and have him on the bench.This would make a huge fuss and would most probably result into the player leaving ASAP.

The club chose option (A).MAtS and Bravo are at a similar level.Even assuming that Bravo is better than MAtS,the difference isn't that big.However,MAtS is almost 10 years younger,which means that it is far more likely that he is the one who has more to offer in the long run.

This IMO was the right choice.Ofc you can never accurately predict what the future holds.MAtS can either live to the hype and become one of the best GKs in the world or suddenly lose even his current ability and become a mediocre keeper.Bravo can play at this level until his 40s or have an injury or two and retire.BUT,the most likely thing is that MAtS will at least keep this level of performance for many years,while Bravo will sooner or later deteriorate.

 

[God Serena]

Sorry, I didnt know only CDR, league and CL are competitions. Nice that you decided it so. Bravo won two Copa Americas with Chile too. Are they considered competitions? Or not under your criteria?

Good. So you've taken a bow off the ridiculous "the stats show MATS is a better keeper". Now they're on a similar level. Soon you'll be admitting Bravo has performed better at Barça.

You literally said, and I quote:

Actually, Bravo won alot more than 2 leagues with Barça as a starting player. But I'm not surprised you're once again mistaken.

Now I dunno about you but I don't remember Barca winning the Copa America, and certainly not twice, and I'm not sure what connection the club has with Chile.

And I admit Bravo has performed better, but I still say they're on a similar level. But I've always had that position, I'm not sure when I said Mats is statistically better.

 

[JamDav1982]

Sorry, I didnt know only CDR, league and CL are competitions. Nice that you decided it so. Bravo won two Copa Americas with Chile too. Are they considered competitions? Or not under your criteria?

Good. So you've taken a bow off the ridiculous "the stats show MATS is a better keeper". Now they're on a similar level. Soon you'll be admitting Bravo has performed better at Barça.

You haven offered any idea for how club should have dealt with the issue bar saying 'tell them to compete'.

Which in fact means tell Ter Stegen he is no.2 and has to over take Bravo.

Can you tell me one club that has kept two top keepers for longer than Barca managed by just telling them to 'compete'?

You wont be able to as doesnt happen and in reality the club had to make a choice.

 

[oneirophobos]

Sorry, I didnt know only CDR, league and CL are competitions. Nice that you decided it so. Bravo won two Copa Americas with Chile too. Are they considered competitions? Or not under your criteria?

Good. So you've taken a bow off the ridiculous "the stats show MATS is a better keeper". Now they're on a similar level. Soon you'll be admitting Bravo has performed better at Barça.

 

[Mandrake]

That's absolute rubbish. The club didn't cave, MAtS didn't force anything. Bravo is leaving because he doesn't want to share minutes anymore, as he had to the past 2 seasons. It's that simple. He saw he wasn't going to be playing CL and Liga, and decided what's best for himself. This club isn't some minor club to cave to any player threats. Not even Messi does that. This club is also not run by amateurs. If they thought Bravo was really much superior, they'd keep him, let mats go and find another gk. He'd never be kept for only being younger.

Good, looks like we agree. It's apparent the club told him he wasnt playing Liga or CL. Yes, of course Bravo is free to stay while playing CDR. He's also free to stay playing one friendly a year, or as a gardener. The things is if he wants regularly playing time, he's been told he's not going to get it. Nos even a decent chance at competing for the number one spot.