Claudio Bravo

[DonAK]

Both will be under pressure.

Bravo will have the English media after him for replacing their darling Joe.

 

[hardyboy]

What should that be a worry? Every player wants to play more, and a lot of players throughout the years have made comments about wanting to play more. That shows a competitive spirit. Have the comments by Bravo and tear Stegen made our team worse the last year or so? No. Worrying about players being vocal about their playing time should be the last thing on a fan's mind.

What should be the focus is the lack of acknowledgement to the fact that MAtS has proven himself in the CL, Copa and a select league matches. People in the chat and other places act like Bravo is better by a good margin, which isn't true. Bravo is a little better than MAtS at shot stopping, though MAtS is a little better at distribution. They have both made mistakes like every keeper does. And they have saved us. MAtS is so much younger and has potential to grow even more. If given more playing time which is what they seem to want. That's the deal breaker. If the margin between them was significant and they were at the same age, I'd be fine with keeper Bravo. But given the small margin and the age factor, it makes sense to keep tear Stegen.

Lol Bravo is twice the player Ter Stegen is, and that is a fact. Ter Stegen last season was as poor as Lord Pinto. He infact made more brainfarts than Lord Pinto..

 

[Total-Football]

I made popcorn for this sub thread

 

[Mandrake]

What should that be a worry? Every player wants to play more, and a lot of players throughout the years have made comments about wanting to play more. That shows a competitive spirit. Have the comments by Bravo and tear Stegen made our team worse the last year or so? No. Worrying about players being vocal about their playing time should be the last thing on a fan's mind.

What should be the focus is the lack of acknowledgement to the fact that MAtS has proven himself in the CL, Copa and a select league matches. People in the chat and other places act like Bravo is better by a good margin, which isn't true. Bravo is a little better than MAtS at shot stopping, though MAtS is a little better at distribution. They have both made mistakes like every keeper does. And they have saved us. MAtS is so much younger and has potential to grow even more. If given more playing time which is what they seem to want. That's the deal breaker. If the margin between them was significant and they were at the same age, I'd be fine with keeper Bravo. But given the small margin and the age factor, it makes sense to keep tear Stegen.

You're right. Players should want more playing time. And it's fine if they're vocal about it. But saying "if things dont change we have to talk", and "things can change very quickly", sounds threatening to me. He should convince Luis Enrique and the club he should be the number one keeper performing on the field and not through the media.

The "they have both made mistakes" sounds like they're made an equal amount of blunders, when the truth is if Bravo has made X mistakes, MATS has made 4X. And thats probably the reason why he hasnt started in La Liga: he's been outperformed.

 

[God Serena]

Lol Bravo is twice the player Ter Stegen is, and that is a fact.

Nah.

Ter Stegen last season was as poor as Lord Pinto.

Nah.

He infact made more brainfarts than Lord Pinto..

Pinto's problem was general lack of ability, especially towards the end. That isn't a problem Mats has.

 

[Wick]

Lol Bravo is twice the player Ter Stegen is, and that is a fact. Ter Stegen last season was as poor as Lord Pinto. He infact made more brainfarts than Lord Pinto..

Quit belly-aching.

 

[KingMessi]

Lol Bravo is twice the player Ter Stegen is, and that is a fact. Ter Stegen last season was as poor as Lord Pinto. He infact made more brainfarts than Lord Pinto..

I like this guy. He funny.

 

[Aryagorn]

Lol Bravo is twice the player Ter Stegen is, and that is a fact. Ter Stegen last season was as poor as Lord Pinto. He infact made more brainfarts than Lord Pinto..

Yo shadyBoy..... You do realize that calling Pinto a lord is not exactly very bright of you? The guy won a zamora playing for Celta of all! To give you a perspective, only 2 others have ever managed to do that!!

 

[oneirophobos]

Lets get the facts straight then. According to the interviews mentioned, MATS did imply leaving the club if things didnt change. Bravo did not. There is a difference between both in their interviews, unless you can find one where Bravo says something similar. So we've established one player publicly threatened and the other did not, just like I said.

What is naive is thinking that the threat of MATS to the club is not considered, him being the younger goalie. But I can understand that after you thought Bravo was a bad signing, having criticized him constantly and defended the german for the last 2 years, you would only want to make it as Bravo is "wanting" to leave. It looks like he's being forced out if he wants to play regularly.

I find it worrisome that some people on here dont care about us losing our best goalie because of the threats of another player. Its like they dont care about the best interests of Barça.

... jfc. Your comment is devoid of facts and we haven't established anything except the sheer level of delusion on your part. Both players were continuously asked about rotations, both gave diplomatic answers while making it clear they coveted the absolute #1 spot in all competitions. If anything, ter Stegen (who we signed from Gladbach after monitoring him for 2+ years and for what he was made to believe by FCB as first choice keeper) proved that he was willing to stay under much different conditions that he agreed on at the time of transfer completion, accepted the the lesser role in the "Bravo in the league, ter Stegen in (fewer AND of knockout type) cup matches" agreement that didn't favour him and continued working on this uneven ground since 2014. Claudio, on the other hand, was willing to spent how much time in his shoes? You know the answer but it doesn't fit your narrative. Not a bloody second, he got himself and his family the first ticket out of Barcelona the minute the (supposed) goalie role switch was disclosed to the players.

And don't even attempt to twist my words, Claudio is an amazing player and it is indeed his prerogative to pack his bags, leave the club immediately and keep his personal career/gain as ultimate priority - as much as it would be in ter Stegen's case. I don't blame him. It is, though, quite fascinating to watch how the German was villainized for accepting the lesser role and staying here despite multiple and lucrative offers from other clubs he ignored, working against his personal career/gain. How dares he act that way!! And now that Bravo showed he'd never accept what ter Stegen dealt with since 2014 .. Who gets labelled as ungrateful and the villain? Obviously, ter Stegen again. Lel. This comm came so far that whenever a negatively-accepted decision is made by either Lucho, ter Stegen or Bravo .. it's the 24-year-old's fault.

A vast majority of people on here (including myself) is sad, upset even to see Claudio go. Not because of the threats of another player, because of his own volition. It's a situation, however, that was bound to happen when we signed 2 top class goalies at the same and any semi-attentive FCB fan had plenty of time to come to terms with every possible outcome of the said situation. Objectively speaking, Claudio and ter Stegen are more or less on the same level right now so keeping the goalie who has both potential and 10+ years of playing time on his side over the other one is the best solution if we care about the best interest of FCB, not the best interest of individual players. So it's not "like they don't care about the best interests of Barça", it's like YOU don't. Honestly, I never see you anywhere on this forum except permanently camped out in either CB or MAtS thread and it really makes me wonder if you're in it for the club or this 1 player only.

 

[Mandrake]

... jfc. Your comment is devoid of facts and we haven't established anything except the sheer level of delusion on your part. Both players were continuously asked about rotations, both gave diplomatic answers while making it clear they coveted the absolute #1 spot in all competitions. If anything, ter Stegen (who we signed from Gladbach after monitoring him for 2+ years and for what he was made to believe by FCB as first choice keeper) proved that he was willing to stay under much different conditions that he agreed on at the time of transfer completion, accepted the the lesser role in the "Bravo in the league, ter Stegen in (fewer AND of knockout type) cup matches" agreement that didn't favour him and continued working on this uneven ground since 2014. Claudio, on the other hand, was willing to spent how much time in his shoes? You know the answer but it doesn't fit your narrative. Not a bloody second, he got himself and his family the first ticket out of Barcelona the minute the (supposed) goalie role switch was disclosed to the players.

And don't even attempt to twist my words, Claudio is an amazing player and it is indeed his prerogative to pack his bags, leave the club immediately and keep his personal career/gain as ultimate priority - as much as it would be in ter Stegen's case. I don't blame him. It is, though, quite fascinating to watch how the German was villainized for accepting the lesser role and staying here despite multiple and lucrative offers from other clubs he ignored, working against his personal career/gain. How dares he act that way!! And now that Bravo showed he'd never accept what ter Stegen dealt with since 2014 .. Who gets labelled as ungrateful and the villain? Obviously, ter Stegen again. Lel. This comm came so far that whenever a negatively-accepted decision is made by either Lucho, ter Stegen or Bravo .. it's the 24-year-old's fault.

A vast majority of people on here (including myself) is sad, upset even to see Claudio go. Not because of the threats of another player, because of his own volition. It's a situation, however, that was bound to happen when we signed 2 top class goalies at the same and any semi-attentive FCB fan had plenty of time to come to terms with every possible outcome of the said situation. Objectively speaking, Claudio and ter Stegen are more or less on the same level right now so keeping the goalie who has both potential and 10+ years of playing time on his side over the other one is the best solution if we care about the best interest of FCB, not the best interest of individual players. So it's not "like they don't care about the best interests of Barça", it's like YOU don't. Honestly, I never see you anywhere on this forum except permanently camped out in either CB or MAtS thread and it really makes me wonder if you're in it for the club or this 1 player only.

It's ideal when discussing any topic to address what the other part is saying. I know it can be difficult when one is mistaken, but if not done then it's a discussion going in a circle.

1. I've quoted the interviews. I've shown MATS has been a lot less than "diplomatic". If you want to insist with the point, even though the evidence is staring right at you, I can do nothing about it.
2. We have no idea what the club offered Claudio. What has appeared in the media is that he was offered to start in CDR. We do know the club talked to both players and we know MATS said in an interview "if things dont change, we need to talk".
I would leave too if I outperformed another much younger player who will regardless be getting to play alot more.
3. Your objectively speaking isnt objective at all. I think many on this thread feel Bravo is the better keeper. There is no agreement on that point.

 

[JamDav1982]

It's ideal when discussing any topic to address what the other part is saying. I know it can be difficult when one is mistaken, but if not done then it's a discussion going in a circle.

1. I've quoted the interviews. I've shown MATS has been a lot less than "diplomatic". If you want to insist with the point, even though the evidence is staring right at you, I can do nothing about it.
2. We have no idea what the club offered Claudio. What has appeared in the media is that he was offered to start in CDR. We do know the club talked to both players and we know MATS said in an interview "if things dont change, we need to talk".
I would leave too if I outperformed another much younger player who will regardless be getting to play alot more.
3. Your objectively speaking isnt objective at all. I think many on this thread feel Bravo is the better keeper. There is no agreement on that point.

You are assuming that Bravo is unhappy that he would be losing his starting place in league to Ter Stegen. When it seems he wasnt to happy with the situation before anyway.

Bravo at this stage in his career will want to play in the biggest competitions and get more money doing it than does at Barca for playing less.

There is nothing wrong at all with either GK wanting a different situation, they are ambitious and need to look after themselves.

Ter Stegen is entitled to ask for more time or if not a change in circumstances but he cant force anyone to make him first choice and sell Bravo. The ages of the keepers and their abilities is what that decision is based on.

 

[Mandrake]

You are assuming that Bravo is unhappy that he would be losing his starting place in league to Ter Stegen. When it seems he wasnt to happy with the situation before anyway.

Bravo at this stage in his career will want to play in the biggest competitions and get more money doing it than does at Barca for playing less.

There is nothing wrong at all with either GK wanting a different situation, they are ambitious and need to look after themselves.

Ter Stegen is entitled to ask for more time or if not a change in circumstances but he cant force anyone to make him first choice and sell Bravo. The ages of the keepers and their abilities is what that decision is based on.

It would be ideal if it was the performance of each keeper and not their age on which the decision is based on. And implying threats of leaving through the press should have nothing to do with the decision of who the number 1 is.

 

[Wick]

You're right. Players should want more playing time. And it's fine if they're vocal about it. But saying "if things dont change we have to talk", and "things can change very quickly", sounds threatening to me. He should convince Luis Enrique and the club he should be the number one keeper performing on the field and not through the media.

The "they have both made mistakes" sounds like they're made an equal amount of blunders, when the truth is if Bravo has made X mistakes, MATS has made 4X. And thats probably the reason why he hasnt started in La Liga: he's been outperformed.

You think he hasn't? I bet they both work hard. My point is we knew this day would come, so why does it matter that they, in their own was, have been vocal about their roles in the press? Sure, Bravo has been more respectful about it, while ter Stegen comes across as a bit of (butt)hurt, but essentially their message is the same: it can't continue. And again, it hasn't caused any kind of implosion at all. In fact, one could argue that their quality and performances are the result of the competitiveness, including the vocal aspect, that's been created by having two such talented keepers.

I haven't said they've made an equal amount of mistakes, but ter Stegen also haven't made 4x as many mistakes. The context favors Bravo as he gets regular playing time/more matches thus being able to find rhythm and confidence. He has made mistakes despite that advantage. MAtS hear made more mistakes, but not to the degree people on here claim, but has done so without the aforementioned advantage that Bravo has. Point is every keeper makes mistakes, and both our keepers have made mistakes, but the context surrounding those mistakes should not be ignored - which I think it is.

Also, what do we categorize as mistakes? If it's mistakes directly leading to goals, then Bravo made the first big one in his first match (as I recall) - a preseason match against Napoli. It's was a horrible drop, but he was lucky that ter Stegen was out injured for that time. None of us knows how Lucho would have reacted. Did he plan on starting MAtS in the league? Did he plan to start Bravo in the league - and would he still have started after the Napoli match if MAtS wasn't still injured? We do not know. It's pure speculation. What we do know is that Bravo got the opportunity first, and after the Napoli match he showed to be very reliable. Not just reliable - he was great! During all this, what did MAtS think? MAtS maybe (more 'likely') thought he was bought to be the 1st choice, but because Bravo did so well, he never gets his chance in the league. Maybe MAtS thinks he didn't get a fair shake to begin with? Shit, I'd be disappointed too - even though he could probably see Bravo also being quality and deserving of starting. But then ter Stegen shows his quality in the CL and Copa, making big saves against Bayern, City etc. and, I assume, trains hard. He probably wants to continue to prove himself like the competitor he is. He grows more and more impatient and it shows. For me, that's not hard to understand. And now we are here. But I digress (a lot). In terms of obvious leading-to-goal mistakes, then MAtS made ones against Athletic Club and Roma. Those were bad mistakes, and they happened in more important matches that Bravo's first leading-to-goal mistake. That's likely why they were amplified here - I want to believe that rather than believing than people overlook Bravo's mistakes. They've both also made other mistakes leading to goals, but the margin isn't x4. It's not equal either, but certainly not the big margin that some people want it to be in order for it to fit into their narrative. Also, what if mistakes are categorized as simple misplaced passes leading to pressure from opponents? I'm that case, I'd bet Bravo is worse than ter Stegen. Mistakes in passing, although not nearly as severe in terms of consequence, is something that happens more frequently than leading-to-goals mistakes. Bravo isn't that much worse (like MAtS isn't 4x worse in terms of leading-to-goals mistakes), but MAtS is better in this department. That's incredibly valuable in our way of playing. Crucial really. For me, the cumulative effect of Bravo's mistakes is worse than those of ter Stegen's. I can understand why some may disagree, but that's my view on the whole mistake thing.

MAtS has shown to not be far behind Bravo in terms of shot stopping ability despite the latter's advantage in playing time and also despite Bravo's age/experience. That's something that annoys. People (not saying you are one of them) that refuse to acknowledge the context. Anyway, MAtS is younger and thus have a lot of more years to improve on his already high level. Bravo, unless he is Buffon or van der Sar, doesn't. He'll probably be great during the next 2-3 years, but at that point he's more likely to decline. MAtS was bought as and should continue to be the future. This decision is a no-brainer.

 

[JamDav1982]

It would be ideal if it was the performance of each keeper and not their age on which the decision is based on. And implying threats of leaving through the press should have nothing to do with the decision of who the number 1 is.

Give it a break 'implied threats'. He is saying nothing other than doesnt want to continue in this set up.

The club could choose to sell him or keep him.

Bravo was not happy with the situation as it was last season so this idea that Ter Stegen has forced him to leave is just rubbish.

Why do you think that the club have chosen Ter Stegen?

From all the press he was the one City really wanted and were prepared to pay more for.

 

[Mandrake]

Give it a break 'implied threats'. He is saying nothing other than doesnt want to continue in this set up.

The club could choose to sell him or keep him.

Bravo was not happy with the situation as it was last season so this idea that Ter Stegen has forced him to leave is just rubbish.

Why do you think that the club have chosen Ter Stegen?

From all the press he was the one City really wanted and were prepared to pay more for.

Saying he doesn't want to continue in a setup is not threatening? Or else what? He leaves. That's a threat.

I think you're right. MATS had offers on the table, which made it easier for him to blackmail the club. Either I start in La Liga and CL or I leave. The club chose the younger player over the one whose been the better keeper.