Claudio Bravo

[oneirophobos]

It's ideal when discussing any topic to address what the other part is saying. I know it can be difficult when one is mistaken, but if not done then it's a discussion going in a circle.

1. I've quoted the interviews. I've shown MATS has been a lot less than "diplomatic". If you want to insist with the point, even though the evidence is staring right at you, I can do nothing about it.
2. We have no idea what the club offered Claudio. What has appeared in the media is that he was offered to start in CDR. We do know the club talked to both players and we know MATS said in an interview "if things dont change, we need to talk".
I would leave too if I outperformed another much younger player who will regardless be getting to play alot more.
3. Your objectively speaking isnt objective at all. I think many on this thread feel Bravo is the better keeper. There is no agreement on that point.

1. More like if you continue (rather unsuccessfully, if I may say) putting your own spin on interviews. If ter Stegen considered his options near the end of 2015 season, that's all right by me. Clearly a lot of players do and that includes plenty of FCB ones from starters like Alves and Masche to Bartra and clearly Claudio as well or he wouldn't be leaving in this window.

2. Then it's a moot point. The club talked to both players but we don't know anything past that except assumptions that vary from one Spanish outlet to another. And then we got that ter Stegen quote that you're working hard in this thread over and over to make it seem somehow incriminating and failing. You said it yourself, we have no idea what FCB offered Claudio OR ter Stegen. "If things don't change, we need to talk." is vague and could mean any number of things - from a new agreement between the goalies and staff that would bring the playing minutes closer to a fairer 50/50 division, to the German agreeing to a loan .. or anything in-between really. Yet here you are, trying to sell that quote as him flat-out threatening to leave unless Lucho sells the victim Bravo. That's not what happened, not the reality of things.

3. Bravo didn't outperform ter Stegen. I don't believe the other way happened either but, again, as you said "It's ideal when discussing any topic to address what the other part is saying." My point focused on what's objectively the best solution on the part of the CLUB to goalie problem, not which of the two is the best player. If you don't believe choosing the player who can spend the next 10 years at the club and hasn't even reached his full potential yet over a comparable player with most likely less than half of that left and at his full potential isn't objectively the best solution .. then I'm happy to disagree.

 

[God Serena]

Saying he doesn't want to continue in a setup is not threatening? Or else what? He leaves. That's a threat.

I think you're right. MATS had offers on the table, which made it easier for him to blackmail the club. Either I start in La Liga and CL or I leave. The club chose the younger player over the one whose been the better keeper.

You're reply to this will likely be your 100th post, so congratulations! Even if it's been two years (Suspiciously the moment Bravo signed here but I'm not trying to insinuate anything), that's an incredible accomplishment for posting mainly in one thread.

Even if Mats did threaten to leave, if the club really saw Bravo as being the superior keeper you think he is, and felt he could play for us as long as you think he can, and felt letting him leave would hurt the club as you think it will, why don't they just sell Mats?

You've got to be wrong here somewhere.

 

[JamDav1982]

Saying he doesn't want to continue in a setup is not threatening? Or else what? He leaves. That's a threat.

I think you're right. MATS had offers on the table, which made it easier for him to blackmail the club. Either I start in La Liga and CL or I leave. The club chose the younger player over the one whose been the better keeper.

No it is not 'threatening' any more than Bravo saying he is unhappy or Bravos wife saying he doesnt want to be benched at this age.

'Blackmailing the club'...what an absolute load of shit. He is giving his opinion on his career and where it is heading.

The club could choose to sell him and for more money than Bravo.

If it comes out the Bravo was not happy sharing duties and told club will you admit you are wrong?

How would you handle the situation?

 

[Mandrake]

1. More like if you continue (rather unsuccessfully, if I may say) putting your own spin on interviews. If ter Stegen considered his options near the end of 2015 season, that's all right by me. Clearly a lot of players do and that includes plenty of FCB ones from clear starters like Alves and Masche to Bartra and clearly Claudio as well or he wouldn't be leaving in this window.
2. Then it's a moot point. The club talked to both players but we don't know anything past that except assumptions that vary from one Spanish outlet to another. And then we got that ter Stegen quote that you're working hard in this thread over and over to make it seem somehow incriminating and failing. You said it yourself, we have no idea what FCB offered Claudio OR ter Stegen. "If things don't change, we need to talk." is vague and could mean any number of things - from a new agreement between the goalies and staff that would bring the playing minutes closer to a fairer 50/50 division, to the German agreeing to a loan .. or anything in-between really. Yet here you are, trying to sell that quote as him flat-out threatening to leave unless Lucho sells the victim Bravo. That's not what happened, not the reality of things.
3. Bravo didn't outperform ter Stegen. I don't believe the other way happened either but, again, as you said "It's ideal when discussing any topic to address what the other part is saying." My point focused on what's objectively the best solution on the part of the CLUB to goalie problem, not which of the two is the best player. If you don't believe choosing the player who can spend the next 10 years at the club and hasn't even reached his full potential yet over a comparable player with most likely less than half of that left and at his full potential isn't objectively the best solution .. then I'm happy to disagree.

Much better. What MATS said, is you're right, vague. Thats the purpose. He cant say if you dont bench Claudio I leave, so he elegantly says something vague. I think we both understand what he meant.

What I believe is that Barça should have the best possible keeper playing today. If he's 20 or 33 I dont care. MATS may become an awesome keeper or he may not. Bravo may continue to perform until he's 39 or he may not. We dont know what injuries they may suffer or how they may perform years for now. We do know how they performed last week and that should be enough for the best team in the world. Do we want to win the treble 2017 with Messi, Iniesta and the rest? Or do we want to maybe try to win the treble in 2022 with MATS and who knows who else?

 

[JamDav1982]

Much better. What MATS said, is you're right, vague. Thats the purpose. He cant say if you dont bench Claudio I leave, so he elegantly says something vague. I think we both understand what he meant.

What I believe is that Barça should have the best possible keeper playing today. If he's 20 or 33 I dont care. MATS may become an awesome keeper or he may not. Bravo may continue to perform until he's 39 or he may not. We dont know what injuries they may suffer or how they may perform years for now. We do know how they performed last week and that should be enough for the best team in the world. Do we want to win the treble 2017 with Messi, Iniesta and the rest? Or do we want to maybe try to win the treble in 2022 with MATS and who knows who else?

What you are saying makes no sense.

If Ter Stegen is the inferior keeper worth a lot more in the transfer market in what way he is blackmailing them to sell Bravo?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

If that was case Ter Stegen is far from blackmailing the club he is leaving them with an easy decision on who is the No.1. While making a lot of money.

 

[Mandrake]

What you are saying makes no sense.

If Ter Stegen is the inferior keeper worth a lot more in the transfer market in what way he is blackmailing them to sell Bravo?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

If that was case Ter Stegen is far from blackmailing the club he is leaving them with an easy decision on who is the No.1. While making a lot of money.

Both keepers were bought for a very similar price 2 years ago. One was 31, the other 22. We all know that age is very important for the price of any player. So if both players were the same price, and one was 9 years younger, who is the more expensive (or higher valued player market wise)?

That's the last reference we have of their price. Barça today prefers having a younger keeper, that may or may not develop, than a mature keeper that is performing at a higher level.

 

[JamDav1982]

Both keepers were bought for a very similar price 2 years ago. One was 31, the other 22. We all know that age is very important for the price of any player. So if both players were the same price, and one was 9 years younger, who is the more expensive (or higher valued player market wise)?

That's the last reference we have of their price. Barça today prefers having a younger keeper, that may or may not develop, than a mature keeper that is performing at a higher level.

I agree Ter Stegen is worth more. Hence why it makes more sense to sell him if as inferior as you make out.

Again. Your cry of 'black mail' is fantasy.

For you Bravo is the better keeper and worth less.

By those rules how is Ter Stegen in any position to 'blackmail' the club?

Does not make sense at all.

 

[Mandrake]

You're reply to this will likely be your 100th post, so congratulations! Even if it's been two years (Suspiciously the moment Bravo signed here but I'm not trying to insinuate anything), that's an incredible accomplishment for posting mainly in one thread.

Even if Mats did threaten to leave, if the club really saw Bravo as being the superior keeper you think he is, and felt he could play for us as long as you think he can, and felt letting him leave would hurt the club as you think it will, why don't they just sell Mats?

You've got to be wrong here somewhere.

Thanks! I really appreciate how worried you are about when I joined, where I post and how much I post. Considering you joined in August 2015, have 1857 posts, or 154 posts a month, really shows how much time you have on your hands to spend on the forum. Maybe you should watch, read or play more football - it may help your football knowledge!

I think the club is making a mistake selling, that's the whole point. They've caved under the MATS pressure and feel it's the better decision. I disagree. It's not that hard to understand.

 

[JamDav1982]

Thanks! I really appreciate how worried you are about when I joined, where I post and how much I post. Considering you joined in August 2015, have 1857 posts, or 154 posts a month, really shows how much time you have on your hands to spend on the forum. Maybe you should watch, read or play more football - it may help your football knowledge!

I think the club is making a mistake selling, that's the whole point. They've caved under the MATS pressure and feel it's the better decision. I disagree. It's not that hard to understand.

How would you have handled both keepers wanting to play more?

If it comes out in next few days that Bravo made it clear he was not happy sharing the starting spot this season has he blackmailed the club?

 

[Mandrake]

How would you have handled both keepers wanting to play more?

If it comes out in next few days that Bravo made it clear he was not happy sharing the starting spot this season has he blackmailed the club?

I would have made them compete. No player should have a secure place in the starting 11. I think no club should give a player that kind of peace - do you want to play every single competition? Then win it performing better than the other keeper.

Nice hipothetical. Of course I can be wrong. It's unlikely, but possible. And Bravo could also come out saying that the club told him he was only starting CDR, making me right. What would you do then?

 

[oneirophobos]

Much better. What MATS said, is you're right, vague. Thats the purpose. He cant say if you dont bench Claudio I leave, so he elegantly says something vague. I think we both understand what he meant.

Not sure we both do, mate! I'm just tryna enjoy this top-quality Swiss chocolate hidden underneath your fancy hat whilst being a bit worried about how sinister you sound, don't mind me...

What I believe is that Barça should have the best possible keeper playing today. If he's 20 or 33 I dont care. MATS may become an awesome keeper or he may not. Bravo may continue to perform until he's 39 or he may not. We dont know what injuries they may suffer or how they may perform years for now. We do know how they performed last week and that should be enough for the best team in the world. Do we want to win the treble 2017 with Messi, Iniesta and the rest? Or do we want to maybe try to win the treble in 2022 with MATS and who knows who else?

Or, consider this option: we want to win the treble 2017 with Messi, Iniesta and the rest AND the treble in 2022. Oh my god this is such a nonsensical point I don't even know why I bother replying, as if winning any trophy much less a treble is a feat entirely dependant on 1 factor that being the goalie in charge. Not only that, supposedly your "100% or 0% shot at treble" theory had any basis in reality - ter Stegen won us 2 CdR and 1 CLs while Claudio won 2 Ligas. Clearly we can count our lucky stars then that the club chose the German over the Chilean since according to you he clearly won more (and knockout ones, at that!) competitions necessary for the treble to land in our hands. Lel.

 

[God Serena]

Thanks! I really appreciate how worried you are about when I joined, where I post and how much I post. Considering you joined in August 2015, have 1857 posts, or 154 posts a month, really shows how much time you have on your hands to spend on the forum. Maybe you should watch, read or play more football - it may help your football knowledge!

I think the club is making a mistake selling, that's the whole point. They've caved under the MATS pressure and feel it's the better decision. I disagree. It's not that hard to understand.

What you are saying doesn't make sense. If Bravo is the better keeper who will be able to play for longer why is the club bowing to all this alleged pressure from Mats?

And once again, Bravo is the one leaving after making it clear he wants to start the Liga and the CL. Mats could have not said a word to the press and that wouldn't change.

 

[JamDav1982]

I would have made them compete. No player should have a secure place in the starting 11. I think no club should give a player that kind of peace - do you want to play every single competition? Then win it performing better than the other keeper.

Nice hipothetical. Of course I can be wrong. It's unlikely, but possible. And Bravo could also come out saying that the club told him he was only starting CDR, making me right. What would you do then?

How do you make them compete? Both of them think they deserve to be starter and one still wants to leave. It solves nothing by just saying 'compete'. Both will think they have been competing for past two years and have shown what they have.

Why does Bravo not stay and compete?

Club telling Bravo has was only starting CDR doesnt prove you right on anything. Other than Bravo was unhappy and like Ter Stegen forced club into choosing.

At least you have backed down on the 'black mailing' nonsense.

 

[Mandrake]

Not sure we both do, mate! I'm just tryna enjoy this top-quality Swiss chocolate hidden underneath your fancy hat whilst being a bit worried about how sinister you sound, don't mind me...

Or, consider this option: we want to win the treble 2017 with Messi, Iniesta and the rest AND the treble in 2022. Oh my god this is such a nonsensical point I don't even know why I bother replying, as if winning any trophy much less a treble is a feat entirely dependant on 1 factor that being the goalie in charge. Not only that, supposedly your "100% or 0% shot at treble" theory had any basis in reality - ter Stegen won us 2 CdR and 1 CLs while Claudio won 2 Ligas. Clearly we can count our lucky stars then that the club chose the German over the Chilean since according to you he clearly won more (and knockout ones, at that!) competitions necessary for the treble to land in our hands. Lel.

Well, I think having the best players in each position makes it more likely to win a competition. But I'm sorry if that sounds stupid to you. Maybe we should bench Messi and put a promising 17 year old on.

Actually, Bravo won alot more than 2 leagues with Barça as a starting player. But I'm not surprised you're once again mistaken.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well, I think having the best players in each position makes it more likely to win a competition. But I'm sorry if that sounds stupid to you. Maybe we should bench Messi and put a promising 17 year old on.

Actually, Bravo won alot more than 2 leagues with Barça as a starting player. But I'm not surprised you're once again mistaken.

If Bravo is that much better Ter Stegen cant blackmail the club into keeping him when forced to choose.

Cant have it all ways.