Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[DonAndres]

Vital to his team in what, exactly? He was cl top scorer, but failed to win a title. Not even the cdr. I don't think he's done enough to win the bdor.

Just saw this on twitter, on why Messi should win it again. I agree 100% with it.

CL top scorer, scored in almost all huge games for RM vs. the biggest teams, scored in the CDR final and was 2nd topscorer of the tournament, 2nd top scorer of la liga last season and 1st so far this season in both La Liga and CL. As an individual, Ronaldo has been unrivaled this year. A player doesn't win team trophies by himself, and Ronaldo did not fail to do his part in trying to get Madrid to win trophies. Ribery and Lahm are great players, but Ronaldo has been wayyy above their level, even if it is only his goalscoring feats, that is a big enough part of the game to say that he's been stellar this year.

Messi is excused for this year because of his injuries, but you can't use his excuse as something to boost his credentials. Saying that he "won the PSG game on one leg" doesn't somehow make his feat more amazing. Being injured is a handicap to his performances, not some sort of justification to add more weight and significance to what he did in whatever time he played.

 

[Flavia]

CL top scorer, scored in almost all huge games for RM vs. the biggest teams, scored in the CDR final and was 2nd topscorer of the tournament, 2nd top scorer of la liga last season and 1st so far this season in both La Liga and CL. As an individual, Ronaldo has been unrivaled this year. A player doesn't win team trophies by himself, and Ronaldo did not fail to do his part in trying to get Madrid to win trophies. Ribery and Lahm are great players, but Ronaldo has been wayyy above their level, even if it is only his goalscoring feats, that is a big enough part of the game to say that he's been stellar this year.

Messi is excused for this year because of his injuries, but you can't use his excuse as something to boost his credentials. Saying that he "won the PSG game on one leg" doesn't somehow make his feat more amazing. Being injured is a handicap to his performances, not some sort of justification to add more weight and significance to what he did in whatever time he played.

We have to agree to disagree, then. Because to me cr hasn't done enough for the bdor. This here "Messi has been playing on one leg since late January and he still has similar stats to Cristiano, who has been incredible all year" is why to me cr doesn't deserve to win it. But neither of the 3 has been on top of the others, it's quite even. No clear favorite.

 

[footyfan]

Flavia, what did Messi win in 2012?

 

[pEllee]

Vital to his team in what, exactly? He was cl top scorer, but failed to win a title. Not even the cdr. I don't think he's done enough to win the bdor.

Just saw this on twitter, on why Messi should win it again. I agree 100% with it.

Really?

I don't know, in the scoring department perhaps? Look, there are tons of things involved when it comes to winning a title. Some players are obviously more important than others but one single player is never the sole reason if a title is indeed won. So suggesting that his goals were useless because they didn't win anything is a useless argument. He did his best, somewhere along the line the team failed elsewhere when it mattered.

 

[Flavia]

Flavia, what did Messi win in 2012?

The 12-13 lliga and the pichichi... ended in may this year, is it already forgotten?

Really?

I don't know, in the scoring department perhaps? Look, there are tons of things involved when it comes to winning a title. Some players are obviously more important than others but one single player is never the sole reason if a title is indeed won. So suggesting that his goals were useless because they didn't win anything is a useless argument. He did his best, somewhere along the line the team failed elsewhere when it mattered.

There's more to being the best player then scoring, imho. I didn't say his goal were useless, just that he hasn't done enough to be considered favorite for the bdor.

 

[pEllee]

The 12-13 lliga and the pichichi... ended in may this year, is it already forgotten?



There's more to being the best player then scoring, imho.

Well duh. But he's not exactly scoring around 20-30 goals a season which is common for most poachers. When you reach 40-60 goals a season you're already contributing so much. You don't need to be particularly good in the build-up then. The goals are more than enough.

 

[suckabov]

More like hes saying f**k you to FIFA, for which I cannon blame him. -> http://www.marca.com/2013/11/14/en/football/real_madrid/1384453909.html

Because FIFA did what exactly to him? That text issue is subjective; I don't find anything "scorning" in it. And his nice little story about FIFA manipulating the Ballon d'Or is of course bollocks. The only way FIFA could do it is to blackmail the voters (including players like Ibra, Gerrard, Casillas etc) into voting against Ronaldo, or to plot with everyone against him.

Messi's a better player, but Ronaldo's played better. Messi has struggled with injuries and form this year and that has immense influence on whether or not he deserves the Ballon D'or. The award is given based off of the player with the best year-round performance, not the player with the most ability.

There are no criteria for picking the winner whatsoever. The shortlist is based on the players' year-round performance, but that's about it. Everyone can vote for whom they chose. And looking at the large margin Messi has always won in the past years, you can conclude that at least a group of voters always go by whom they perceive as the best player. This for example shows in the difference between captains' and journalists' votes, as the journalists in some years have voted Messi for 2nd or even 4th place. Of course what you describe was the original idea of the award, but I doubt it is like that any longer. One has to say, though, that Messi played a large part in why the award changed - there has never been anyone like him (at least not since the existence of the award) and he's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. Of course giving it to anyone else but him might feel wrong for some people.

Personally, I don't see why Ronaldo "has played better" - in the games Messi played, he was superb. Not worse than Ronaldo. Ronaldo played more, and the games he played that Messi missed were all on a great level, that is for sure. But better than Messi, I don't know. Based on what?

 

[Flavia]

Well duh. But he's not exactly scoring around 20-30 goals a season which is common for most poachers. When you reach 40-60 goals a season you're already contributing so much. You don't need to be particularly good in the build-up then. The goals are more than enough.

Sure, he contributed enough to be in the top 3. But not the 1st. There are specific awards for the top scorers.

Personally, I don't see why Ronaldo "has played better" - in the games Messi played, he was superb. Not worse than Ronaldo. Ronaldo played more, and the games he played that Messi missed were all on a great level, that is for sure. But better than Messi, I don't know. Based on what?

Based on personal opinion, I guess. cr hasn't done anything really out of this world, to me.

 

[footyfan]

The 12-13 lliga and the pichichi... ended in may this year, is it already forgotten?

What? The 12/13 La Liga was won in 2013, not in 2012. Messi only won the Copa Del Rey in 2012, and in that competition he only scored 3 goals.

 

[Flavia]

What? The 12/13 La Liga was won in 2013, not in 2012. Messi only won the Copa Del Rey in 2012, and in that competition he only scored 3 goals.

Misunderstood you at first. But Messi had an unreal year in 2012, vaporizing a lot of records. You can't really say cr is doing the same, can you?

 

[DonAndres]

There are no criteria for picking the winner whatsoever. The shortlist is based on the players' year-round performance, but that's about it. Everyone can vote for whom they chose. And looking at the large margin Messi has always won in the past years, you can conclude that at least a group of voters always go by whom they perceive as the best player. This for example shows in the difference between captains' and journalists' votes, as the journalists in some years have voted Messi for 2nd or even 4th place. Of course what you describe was the original idea of the award, but I doubt it is like that any longer. One has to say, though, that Messi played a large part in why the award changed - there has never been anyone like him (at least not since the existence of the award) and he's a once-in-a-lifetime talent. Of course giving it to anyone else but him might feel wrong for some people.

Personally, I don't see why Ronaldo "has played better" - in the games Messi played, he was superb. Not worse than Ronaldo. Ronaldo played more, and the games he played that Messi missed were all on a great level, that is for sure. But better than Messi, I don't know. Based on what?

Yes, selectively in games Messi has played he was great. However, how often has he really played? He's barely had the chance to show his best vs elite teams or have a consistent run because of his injuries. He hasn't been playing enough CL football to challenge Ronaldo's recent performances in there, his la liga games have been scattered because of his layoffs, and he hasn't played much in CDR either. His injuries are a handicap to his Ballon D'or credentials, not an excuse to give a handicap-advantage and add inflated weight/significance to whatever he has been able to do in the past year.

 

[footyfan]

Misunderstood you at first. But Messi had an unreal year in 2012, vaporizing a lot of records. You can't really say cr is doing the same, can you?

Ronaldo doesn't have to match what Messi did in 2012 to win the award, he just has to be better than everyone else in 2013. Ronaldo has the most UCL goals in a calendar year ever, that's a pretty good record. This season, he will probably break the UCL goals record per season, he might even score more than 50 in the Liga. Hard to say.

Messi had a goals/game ratio of 1.3 in 2012, Ronaldo has 1.26. Hardly that different, and Ronaldo can even further improve that ratio.

 

[suckabov]

Yes, selectively in games Messi has played he was great. However, how often has he really played? He's barely had the chance to show his best vs elite teams or have a consistent run because of his injuries. He hasn't been playing enough CL football to challenge Ronaldo's recent performances in there, his la liga games have been scattered because of his layoffs, and he hasn't played much in CDR either. His injuries are a handicap to his Ballon D'or credentials, not an excuse to give a handicap-advantage and add inflated weight/significance to whatever he has been able to do in the past year.

Well, I don't see the logic behind using a quantitative argument to rate quality. I'm referring to the statement "Ronaldo has played better", which I do not see. He has played more consistently and has played more. But he hasn't played better at all. In fact, Messi had more moments that truly impressed me this season than Ronaldo. In fact, especially at the beginning of the season, there were a few games where Ronaldo seemed a little off (and had a similar "goal drought" to Messi's recent one).

What? The 12/13 La Liga was won in 2013, not in 2012. Messi only won the Copa Del Rey in 2012, and in that competition he only scored 3 goals.

I've said this before somewhere, but Messi broke Müller's all-time scoring reord for one calendar year, among 4-5 others. CR hasn't come close this year. Of course CR doesn't have to do the same as Messi did last year to win it, but he has to do something really amazing to make up for his trophy drought. Which I'm not sure he has done.

 

[footyfan]

And I was replying to Flavia, who kept pointing out that Ronaldo's goals didn't help win anything. I just reminded her that it was the same case with Messi last year.

What has Messi done this year vs big teams anyway that is better than Ronaldo? You don't even watch Real Madrid, of course Messi's going to have more moments that impressed you.

 

[Flavia]

And I was replying to Flavia, who kept pointing out that Ronaldo's goals didn't help win anything. I just reminded her that it was the same case with Messi last year.

How does it matter whether CR is close or not? It's the Ballon D'Or for 2013, not 2012.

I pointed in my posts cr didn't even win the cdr, as Messi did in 2012. It's a minor title, but it is one. I just don't think cr has done enough to win the bdor this year(as he did in 2008, undisputed winner there to me). No one really has, it was a weird year. Collective game shined more than individuals.