Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

[mark1nhu]

Rivaldo was part of a Barca team that slipped down league yet he is given credit when he helps avoid relegation or make CL.

Rivaldo was a phenomenal player but as good as Ronaldo for Real? Not even close.

There is not one thing Rivaldo compares favourably on in terms of impact.

That's exactly the difference between them: we can clearly point Rivaldo's impact on winning titles in the first two seasons and then on saving us in the last ones.

You just can't share it.

Ronaldo, on the other hand... not only we can share, but also argue he is the one taking advantage of the situation.

 

[JamDav1982]

That's exactly the difference between them: we can clearly point Rivaldo's impact on winning titles in the first two seasons and then on saving us in the last ones.

You just can't share it.

Ronaldo, on the other hand... not only we can share, but also argue he is the one taking advantage of the situation.

I like how you have tried to use Rivaldo being part of a team that fell to CL or avoiding relegation as being a positive. The trouble for you is he was part of those teams that fell that far. He didnt just appear at end of season to 'save the day'.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Jamdav if cristiano is so influential and a cornerstone of real's (few)achievements then why is he invisible with portugal?
People were saying that for messi and messi shut them up by leading argentina to 2 back to back finals.

And don't forget that while in later years portugal doesn't have that many world class players, when cristiano was younger portugal was one of the most star studded teams out there with figo, nuno gomez, tiago who's still playing at high level in atletico, carvalho and ferreira who both went to chelsea, jorge andrande from that insane deportivo team, the legends rui costa and deco and a bunch of other very decent players like maniche, simao, pauleta, costinha, ricardo.

I don't think cristiano is unique at all, if real had aguero or suarez instead of him they would have won the exact same trophies.

 

[JamDav1982]

Jamdav if cristiano is so influential and a cornerstone of real's (few)achievements then why is he invisible with portugal?
People were saying that for messi and messi shut them up by leading argentina to 2 back to back finals.

And don't forget that while in later years portugal doesn't have that many world class players, when cristiano was younger portugal was one of the most star studded teams out there with figo, nuno gomez, tiago who's still playing at high level in atletico, carvalho and ferreira who both went to chelsea, jorge andrande from that insane deportivo team, the legends rui costa and deco and a bunch of other very decent players like maniche, simao, pauleta, costinha, ricardo.

I don't think cristiano is unique at all, if real had aguero or suarez instead of him they would have won the exact same trophies.

Why is Messi not as influential with Argentina?

Poorer teams but both have played important roles in their teams getting to finals and semi finals and both have scored a lot of goals.

Intl football has been dominated by countries that have a core of players playing for same club and a system in place. Had Messi or Ronaldo been Spanish they would be smashing it at intl level.

Spain, Germany and for a time Italy with Juve players have had a big advantage.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Why is Messi not as influential with Argentina?

Poorer teams but both have played important roles in their teams getting to finals and semi finals and both have scored a lot of goals.

Intl football has been dominated by countries that have a core of players playing for same club and a system in place. Had Messi or Ronaldo been Spanish they would be smashing it at intl level.

Spain, Germany and for a time Italy with Juve players have had a big advantage.

Yeah but you didn't get that last sentence of mine.
Cristiano can't make the difference, he's not of that high quality, he's a model poacher and that's it. He relies on service and his team to be in a good day in order to score.
As I said, put aguero in his place and history would not change, because cristiano's influence is minimal.

 

[JamDav1982]

Yeah but you didn't get that last sentence of mine.
Cristiano can't make the difference, he's not of that high quality, he's a model poacher and that's it. He relies on service and his team to be in a good day in order to score.
As I said, put aguero in his place and history would not change, because cristiano's influence is minimal.

I got your last line and dont agree he cant make a difference. He hasnt got the team around him with Portugal to put him in a position to do that. Neither has Messi with Argentina.

He is not a 'poacher' he gets his goals from unbelievable movement often late runs into the box. He is a far superior player to Aguero and has been over last 7/8 years.

You must really wonder why he has won three balon dors, why he would be one of most sought after players in world football for even now a world record fee at almost 31 if he is a poacher with minimal influence.

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

I got your last line and dont agree he cant make a difference. He hasnt got the team around him with Portugal to put him in a position to do that. Neither has Messi with Argentina.

He is not a 'poacher' he gets his goals from unbelievable movement often late runs into the box. He is a far superior player to Aguero and has been over last 7/8 years.

You must really wonder why he has won three balon dors, why he would be one of most sought after players in world football for even now a world record fee at almost 31 if he is a poacher with minimal influence.

Well, 2 of those ballons were stolen from messi so that's not a great argument.
As for teams chasing him that's explained if you take into account that he's one of the most marketable athletes in the world today.

A man who relies on service is not as influential as someone who creates something out of nothing.

 

[JamDav1982]

Well, 2 of those ballons were stolen from messi so that's not a great argument.
As for teams chasing him that's explained if you take into account that he's one of the most marketable athletes in the world today.

A man who relies on service is not as influential as someone who creates something out of nothing.

Two of them were not 'stolen from Messi'

The second one was left open late which is questionable but even then Ronaldo was probably the best player in world in 2007 so maybe deserved one then.

If we are going down the route of who deserved what then Messi was fortunate to win in 2010 when Xavi, Iniesta or Sniejder probably should have won.

Dont know how many times to say this but Messi is clearly the better player and Ronaldo has been the second best player on average in last 7/8 years.

Ronaldo wont open a defence with a clever pass all that often although did get only two less assists than Messi last season so he does have an impact.

Ronaldo does create something out of nothing though in terms of getting into goal scoring positions than no one else can do. He can make a poor cross into a goal or open a defence through movement.

Can you answer this - why do you think Ronaldo gets so many goals? What sets him apart from other 'poachers'?

 

[6 Ballons for Messi]

Can you answer this - why do you think Ronaldo gets so many goals? What sets him apart from other 'poachers'?

Two things I think make him such a great scorer.
His positioning is incredible.
Second, he doesn't lose confidence at all. You have probably seen the stats about how many failed shots cristiano takes in order to score, his conversion rate is very low, yet he doesn't get discouraged, he keeps shooting and hogging the ball and it pays out eventually. Many players with more talent can't score that much because they lose confidence after a couple of failed chances.

 

[Horatio]

Many players with more talent can't score that much because they lose confidence after a couple of failed chances.

Or give other players a chance to take the shot. [insert appropriate emoticon here]

 

[Trickykid]

I'm guessing RM will offload him after this season to cash in on him while they still can. Both PSG and Man Utd would take him in a heartbeat, we all know that.

Thing is, how much will he go for? Let's assume that he carries his rather mediocre form for the remainder of the season - playing poorly but still raking up a decent amount of goals. He'll turn 32 halfway through next season and shouldn't be able to command any crazy fees in a potential transfer, but Cronaldo being Cronaldo, he will - despite clearly declining. He'd definitely be a huge boost in term of marketing and perception in world football for whoever buys him, but they've got to know he's no longer the same Ronaldo who used to contend for the Balon d'or. So how much are they going to splash on him? 50-70M or even more? Absolutely unheard of fees for a player turning 32.

No matter what, this will most likely be a fee that just doesn't correlate logically with ordinary transfer dealings in football.

 

[dakt]

Madrid would have zero trophies in this era without Ronaldo. I don't think that's even debatable.

I reckon it's very debatable. You could say that for just about any other quality player in RM like Marcelo, Ramos, DiMaria in his prime, Benzema, etc.

 

[Horatio]

footyfan: Madrid would have zero trophies in this era without Ronaldo. I don't think that's even debatable.

That kind of reasoning is very tricky. Madrid might have had a player that didn't score as much but migt have scored in important games. Also possibly a more evenly distribution of goals across attacking players.

 

[Ritchie]

That kind of reasoning is very tricky. Madrid might have had a player that didn't score as much but migt have scored in important games. Also possibly a more evenly distribution of goals across attacking players.

Plus they'd have been more of a team.

 

[Horatio]

Plus they'd have been more of a team.

Yes possibly. My latter sentence was kind of infering that.