Ernesto Valverde - V1

[RMU ReBorn]

where did i say anything about Pep?

EV is out of his depth and that will be exposed in la liga aswell this season with a stronger Atleti.

Atleti was stronger last season as well and all the La liga teams was so much better with new tv deals and all . Just mentioned Pep , since you called Ev a fraud . I would like to hear your view on Pep who is considered as a elite manager by majority of this forum .

 

[Joan]

fraud of a manager who has a Europa leage final to his Cv managing Espanyol ,meanwhile there is Pep who hasn't been part of a CL final without Messi Xavi and Iniesta

Come on, mate, Pep is a WC manager. No point in downplaying him in order to praise Valverde.

I do think Valverde gets lots of unnecessary shit. He's a fine mamager, there are things to work on, but I have faith.

 

[Givenchy]

Atleti was stronger last season as well and all the La liga teams was so much better with new tv deals and all . Just mentioned Pep , since you called Ev a fraud . I would like to hear your view on Pep who is considered as a elite manager by majority of this forum .

Pep is a worldclass manager who has proven it at 3 clubs now. EV is a midtable manager who has reduced arguably one of the most exciting teams in the world to playing Mourinho style football. you cant even use the 'well we won ugly but atleast we won'... we are crashing out the CL to Roma ffs. la liga last season was poor, Atleti were crap and Madrid put all their eggs in the CL basket.

if reports are to be believed, EV has decided we buy a 72million squad player when Thiago, Pjanic etc could be available to bolster our starting 11. heck even Martial would be money better spent. the guy is a freaking amatuer who last season was saved due to Messi's brilliance which sadly didn't turn up vs Roma

I had faith in the guy but that was killed during the end of our CL campaign

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Come on, mate, Pep is a WC manager. No point in downplaying him in order to praise Valverde.

I do think Valverde gets lots of unnecessary shit. He's a fine mamager, there are things to work on, but I have faith.

This is legit . BTW I know Pep is world class , Ev should get his share of credit as well .

Pep is a worldclass manager who has proven it at 3 clubs now. EV is a midtable manager who has reduced arguably one of the most exciting teams in the world to playing Mourinho style football. you cant even use the 'well we won ugly but atleast we won'... we are crashing out the CL to Roma ffs. la liga last season was poor, Atleti were crap and Madrid put all their eggs in the CL basket.

if reports are to be believed, EV has decided we buy a 72million squad player when Thiago, Pjanic etc could be available to bolster our starting 11. heck even Martial would be money better spent. the guy is a freaking amatuer who last season was saved due to Messi's brilliance which sadly didn't turn up vs Roma

I had faith in the guy but that was killed during the end of our CL campaign

Proven in three clubs ? No he hasn't. Winning Bundes liga means fuck all . Has spend More than anyone in England to win the premier league and got owned by Klopp by conceding 4 . Hasn't done anything in europe without holy trinity of Messi -Xavi -Don . Ev hasn't downplayed or restored to negative football . we won classico 3-0 , chelsea 3-0 , Juve 3-0 and has beaten teams fair and square . No need to beat the shit out of midtable opponents with 6-2,5-2 margins at the cost of losing defensive shape after a turmoil season under Lucho .Not to forget we lost Neymar as well . What we saw in CDR final was sign of good things to come .

 

[henias]

Proven in three clubs ? No he hasn't. Winning Bundes liga means fuck all . Has spend More than anyone in England to win the premier league and got owned by Klopp by conceding 4 . Hasn't done anything in europe without holy trinity of Messi -Xavi -Don . Ev hasn't downplayed or restored to negative football . we won classico 3-0 , chelsea 3-0 , Juve 3-0 and has beaten teams fair and square . No need to beat the shit out of midtable opponents with 6-2,5-2 margins at the cost of losing defensive shape after a turmoil season under Lucho .Not to forget we lost Neymar as well . What we saw in CDR final was sign of good things to come .

Your logic is somewhat twisted. You only listed the losses of Pep throughout his career and then compare it with a few selective good performances. EV doesnt have a huge sample size to begin with. It's as good as saying Salah is better than Messi. Without Pep, there wouldn't even be this golden foundation he has built. You'd think EV would have see something in young Xavi, Iniesta, even Pedro or Villa?

It's crazy how fans downplay Pep's past achievements where he laid the foundation for Barcelona from scratch. "Pep is a fraud, EV is a genius", honestly the most ridiculous thing I've heard. I've recognised EV's efforts at the start of the season but towards the end of the season he was clueless and was in shambles. 0-3 Roma, 4-5 Levante, I could say the same.

Keep believing mate. Actually the only positive football they played was against Juventus 3-0, where Messi played a false 9, where EV havent quite forced his rigid gameplan with little to no flexibility.

Next season is no more a transition period, so no point harping the club is in "chaos", in "turmoil", "crumbling", just because one player left. Get over it. CL KO and he's out.

 

[Cule4life]

The mental gymnastics of Fraudverde apologists One season of mou style boring ass football coupled with luck and he's already better than Pep

 

[Barcaman]

Don't think anyone claimed he is better manager than pep.

 

[henias]

Don't think anyone claimed he is better manager than pep.

Indirectly, yes, or for that matter of fact, can even be put in a level close to Pep. My opinion? Not even close.

It's still equally pointless to bring Pep into this equation and saying he's as much as a fraud who hasnt done anything in Europe without the trio of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi. "Look Pep failed in CL despite being an "elite manager", so EV cant be that bad right?"

It's plain stupid to even put them side by side and say look Pep is a failure and can be used as a benchmark for EV. People like to look at solely results, but other than that, Pep is 10x the manager/coach/teacher than EV ever will be. I would love to see how EV manage other top clubs first and win the CL/league to be even drawn comparison with.

I suggest some should wait for next season and see how EV can get away with his some of his poor decisions and gameplan, since so many have faith in him. It's not that hard to see what kind of traits, mindset, tactics and that mentality he possess in big clubs. Just don't think it suits Barcelona. But we will see.

 

[jamrock]

How do you add to ignore list on a mobile phone

Because the forum is just getting filled with craziness these days

 

[pepi]

How do you add to ignore list on a mobile phone

Because the forum is just getting filled with craziness these days

http://www.barcaforum.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

 

[RMU ReBorn]

Your logic is somewhat twisted. You only listed the losses of Pep throughout his career and then compare it with a few selective good performances. EV doesnt have a huge sample size to begin with. It's as good as saying Salah is better than Messi. Without Pep, there wouldn't even be this golden foundation he has built. You'd think EV would have see something in young Xavi, Iniesta, even Pedro or Villa?

It's crazy how fans downplay Pep's past achievements where he laid the foundation for Barcelona from scratch. "Pep is a fraud, EV is a genius", honestly the most ridiculous thing I've heard. I've recognised EV's efforts at the start of the season but towards the end of the season he was clueless and was in shambles. 0-3 Roma, 4-5 Levante, I could say the same.

Keep believing mate. Actually the only positive football they played was against Juventus 3-0, where Messi played a false 9, where EV havent quite forced his rigid gameplan with little to no flexibility.

Next season is no more a transition period, so no point harping the club is in "chaos", in "turmoil", "crumbling", just because one player left. Get over it. CL KO and he's out.

I wonder whether you read my post properly or not . No were i mentioned that Pep is a fraud and Ev is a genius . I was questioning logic of those who are questioning his credentials based on Roma debacle . So just pointed out that , Pep has done fuck all in europe without Messi -Xavi -Don . By that logic Pep is also a fraud . Never did i said , Ev should stay if he flops again this season . Transition period was over and he will deliver and we will get to witness the brand of football that Barca displayed in CDR final .


Tbh , Pep didn't devoloped Xavi ,iniesta or Messi . Xavi was voted as Euro player of the tourny in 2008 and Iniesta was also a sensation in that Euro's . Messi was twice the player Mbappe is now , so was the hype around him . I credit him for bringing in Busquets but it's not as If Ev has won everything with bought talents . What he did with Basque talents in Bilbao is one of their all time success storys . Ended their 15 year trophy drought with academy products and never dropped out of top 7 in La liga . You can see how Bilbao is struggling without him . Messi, xavi , Iniesta was at the peak of their prowess back in Pep days , so it was a smooth transition for him to display the brand of football which we saw . Messi used to run 9 km 's per match and now it's 7-7.5 km per match . So Ev is forced to play 442 with Busquets getting older. Or else board should be competent enough to bring in Midfielders like kante which they are not . That leaves him with options like willian, to compensate the lack of distance that Messi covers . Stop judging him based on one debacle . He will deliver big time in Cl with Cou and Dembele getting well settled .

 

[henias]

I wonder whether you read my post properly or not . There in no were i mentioned that Pep is a fraud and Ev is a genius . I was questioning logic of those who are questioning his credentials based on Roma debacle . So just pointed out that , Pep has done fuck all in europe without Messi -Xavi -Don . By that logic Pep is also a fraud . Never did i said that Ev should stay if he flops again this season . I said the transition period was over and he will deliver and we will get to witness the brand of football that Barca displayed in CDR final .


Tbh , Pep didn't devoloped Xavi ,iniesta or Messi . Xavi was voted as Euro player of the tourny and Iniesta was a sensation in that Euro's . Messi was twice the playet Mbappe is now , so was the hype around him . I credit him for bringing in Busquets but it's not as If Ev has won everything with bought talents . What he did with Basque talents in Bilbao is one of their all time success storys . Ended their 15 year trophy drought with academy products and never dropped out of top 7 in La loga . You can see how Bilbao is struggling now without him . Messi, xavi , Iniesta was at the peak of their prowess back in Pe days , so it was a smooth transition for him to display the brand of football which we saw . Messi used to run 9 km 's per match and now it's 7-7.5 km per match . So Ev is forced to play 442 with Busquets getting older. Or else board should he competent enough to bring in Midfielder like kante which they are not . Again he is forced to bring in workhorses like willian to cover the lack of distance that Messi covers . Stop judging him based on one debacle . He will deliver big time in Cl with Cou and Dembele getting well settled .

I dont ever think the Roma incident alone or the number of trophies was the main reason for calling out EV. It was simply the tipping point and the mere outcome of his poor planning all year round. People used Roma as an example because everyone was so obssessed with results.

Imagine if EV barely scaped past Roma, you would be focused on the result and say he is a mastermind for getting past the Round of 8. Then what? We face Liverpool or someone else will still be exposed. But people will be giving excuses like we dont have good enough players as compared to Liverpool. But the fact we actually got knocked by Roma was a major wake up call to what EV has been doing the whole time. No vision, no planning, crumbling under pressure and not even able to make a sub until theres literally 5 mins left. So you telling me by this he is a great manager? He's been bringing on late subs every match and I dont buy the excuse this is just a "one time incident". And of course, Roma will seem like a one time incident, u lose and u're out.

It's useless to bring up whether Bilbao is struggling or not since he's managing a big club now. What he does with Bilbao isnt applicable here.

Again, it's honestly pointless to bring in Pep and say EV's not a fraud because Pep's failed in CL. These 2 are mutually exclusive since they are managing entirely different clubs at the moment and in their careers. But for you to downplay Pep's achievements by because saying he had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi it's the most fcking ridiculous shit I have heard all year round. It's as good as saying EV wouldnt win the double without Messi, Iniesta, or Coutinho. Nobody is "forced" to play a 442 here, in a 442 you have to cover as much or more distance while attacking and maintaining defensive shape at the same time. Messi has been like that more or less since forever, pointless to keep saying players or coaches are forced.

You are the one judging him based on one debacle and bringing in Pep as comparison. (Utterly useless) "He will deliver big time", you're already expecting something that hasnt even happen. Yet you are already bringing Pep in and try to put them next to each other.

 

[Andrew M]

Henias, to say that Pep laid the foundations for Barca from scratch is seriously pushing it. I think a lot of coaches could have done a lot with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in their prime; not to mention Eto'o, Henry, Puyol, Dani Alves, Zlatan, Pique etc. Pep is the first person who would tell you that the quality of the players is what counts the most.

In fact, the recent 3 CL in a row success of Real Madrid has me feeling that we probably underachieved in the CL. If you look back in history, all the great sides won successive titles and we didn't.

 

[KingMessi]

We probably would have done three in a row if it wasn't for the volcano and Bojan's goal being disallowed.

 

[Morten]

Henias, to say that Pep laid the foundations for Barca from scratch is seriously pushing it. I think a lot of coaches could have done a lot with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in their prime; not to mention Eto'o, Henry, Puyol, Dani Alves, Zlatan, Pique etc. Pep is the first person who would tell you that the quality of the players is what counts the most.

In fact, the recent 3 CL in a row success of Real Madrid has me feeling that we probably underachieved in the CL. If you look back in history, all the great sides won successive titles and we didn't.

Yeah, especially since the Barca players just had proven themselves on the world stage, under Aragones.
Pep didnt discover Xaviesta, many people forget that.