Ernesto Valverde - V1

[Andrew M]

We probably would have done three in a row if it wasn't for the volcano and Bojan's goal being disallowed.

Indeed that didn't help, but the 2012 season hurts a lot more for me. That Inter team was a mean machine perfectly engineered and calibrated for its purpose. The 2012 Chelsea team was incredibly lucky and we've only got ourselves to blame for not beating them. That season was a profound failure.

 

[henias]

Henias, to say that Pep laid the foundations for Barca from scratch is seriously pushing it. I think a lot of coaches could have done a lot with Xavi, Iniesta and Messi in their prime; not to mention Eto'o, Henry, Puyol, Dani Alves, Zlatan, Pique etc. Pep is the first person who would tell you that the quality of the players is what counts the most.

In fact, the recent 3 CL in a row success of Real Madrid has me feeling that we probably underachieved in the CL. If you look back in history, all the great sides won successive titles and we didn't.

Of course it's you Andrew. So you are just gonna keep harping on the past by saying every coach has to win without Xavi, Iniesta, Messi to prove themselves?

So what's so formidable about the double ( since people are just focusing on the squad)? By that logic, winning Seville in the Copa wasnt that satisfying since we were playing with the likes of Coutinho, Messi, Busquets, Iniesta, Umtiti, Ter Stegen. Is that what you're trying to say?

I'm pushing it? Then try to downplay Pep's achievement isn't? Haha give me a break.

EV wouldnt have done shit or push it to the maximum potential as well because he isnt a coach with Pep's mentality and vision.

 

[Andrew M]

Of course it's you Andrew. So you are just gonna keep harping on the past by saying every coach has to win without Xavi, Iniesta, Messi to prove themselves?

So what's so formidable about the double ( since people are just focusing on the squad)? By that logic, winning Seville in the Copa wasnt that satisfying since we were playing with the likes of Coutinho, Messi, Busquets, Iniesta, Umtiti, Ter Stegen. Is that what you're trying to say?

I'm pushing it? Then try to downplay Pep's achievement isn't? Haha give me a break.

EV wouldnt have done shit or push it to the potential as well because he isnt a coach with Pep's mentality.

Firstly, I think Pep is a better coach than EV. I just wanted to point out that, while Pep is a very good coach, he is no genius nor deity.

He achieves very good to great results with wonderful players.

In my view what Ranieri did with Leicester is more impressive than anything Pep has ever achieved. Simeone winning La Liga in 2014 while also reaching the CL final is also more impressive to me.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

I dont ever think the Roma incident alone or the number of trophies was the main reason for calling out EV. It was simply the tipping point and the mere outcome of his poor planning all year round. People used Roma as an example because everyone was so obssessed with results.

Imagine if EV barely scaped past Roma, you would be focused on the result and say he is a mastermind for getting past the Round of 8. Then what? We face Liverpool or someone else will still be exposed. But people will be giving excuses like we dont have good enough players as compared to Liverpool. But the fact we actually got knocked by Roma was a major wake up call to what EV has been doing the whole time. No vision, no planning, crumbling under pressure and not even able to make a sub until theres literally 5 mins left. So you telling me by this he is a great manager? He's been bringing on late subs every match and I dont buy the excuse this is just a "one time incident". And of course, Roma will seem like a one time incident, u lose and u're out.

It's useless to bring up whether Bilbao is struggling or not since he's managing a big club now. What he does with Bilbao isnt applicable here.

Again, it's honestly pointless to bring in Pep and say EV's not a fraud because Pep's failed in CL. These 2 are mutually exclusive since they are managing entirely different clubs at the moment and in their careers. But for you to downplay Pep's achievements by because saying he had Xavi, Iniesta and Messi it's the most fcking ridiculous shit I have heard all year round. It's as good as saying EV wouldnt win the double without Messi, Iniesta, or Coutinho. Nobody is "forced" to play a 442 here, in a 442 you have to cover as much or more distance while attacking and maintaining defensive shape at the same time. Messi has been like that more or less since forever, pointless to keep saying players or coaches are forced.

You are the one judging him based on one debacle and bringing in Pep as comparison. (Utterly useless) "He will deliver big time", you're already expecting something that hasnt even happen. Yet you are already bringing Pep in and try to put them next to each other.

Pep had prime Xavi , Iniesta , Messi . It's a fact that no one can deny . He didn't laid the foundation for anything , he was just a part of it . To say that Ev is a fraud because he failed in his first attempt in Cl is like saying Pep is fraud because he hasn't won a cl without Messi , xavi etc . You are not even understanding the point . At one intance you were saying that Pep is an all time great and then you don't have a proper reason why he has been shitting in Cl getting clobbered by a midfield that had henderson , Miilner and a defense with Lovren as Cb . Sorry no justification for that . If Ev is fraud , then Pep is a big bald fraud who got exposed without goat players in his side . Tbh we won La liga by the time coutinho arrived , so he wasn't the reason why Ev won la liga . Ev had Messi , But not the prime Messi who used to cover 9km s per game . Again you got it completely wrong by saying that Messi has been like that all his career . Messi was so much mobile in his prime and even covered 9.2 kms in Rome when we won Cl . So stop posting Bullshits without any facts .. Ev didn't had any option in midfield to ploy 433 with Busi who isn't that Mobile , Iniesta barely plays 60 minutes and Rakitic isn't the creative output you are looking for . So basically Ev won the fucking league by a huge margin with Gomes , Paulinho , Paco , Vidal , Denis among our squad players . Compare that to the squad Madrid clubs are having . Had we played 433 , we would have lost league by a landslide margin . I am grateful for that

 

[henias]

Firstly, I think Pep is a better coach than EV. I just wanted to point out that, while Pep is a very good coach, he is no genius nor deity.

He achieves very good to great results with wonderful players.

In my view what Ranieri did with Leicester is more impressive than anything Pep has ever achieved. Simeone winning La Liga in 2014 while also reaching the CL final is also more impressive to me.

Yeah sounds nice and all but you said I'm the one pushing it while the other said Pep's achievement is nothing because he had a certain set of players. Barcelona was struggling before Pep as well.

When did I say he is a genius?

Again never rated what kind of performance with different manager is the best so it's irrelevant what you're trying to bring across.

Pep had prime Xavi , Iniesta , Messi . It's a fact that no one can deny . He didn't laid the foundation for anything , he was just a part of it . To say that Ev is a fraud because he failed in his first attempt in Cl is like saying Pep is fraud because he hasn't won a cl without Messi , xavi etc . You are not even understanding the point . At one intance you were saying that Pep is an all time great and then you don't have a proper reason why he has been shitting in Cl getting clobbered by a midfield that had henderson , Miilner and a defense with Lovren as Cb . Sorry no justification for that . If Ev is fraud , then Pep is a big bald fraud who got exposed without goat players in his side . Tbh we won La liga by the time coutinho arrived , so he wasn't the reason why Ev won la liga . Ev had Messi , But not the prime Messi who used to cover 9km s per game . Again you got it completely wrong by saying that Messi has been like that all his career . Messi was so much mobile in his prime and even covered 9.2 kms in Rome when we won Cl . So stop posting Bullshits without any facts .. Ev didn't had any option in midfield to ploy 433 with Busi who isn't that Mobile , Iniesta barely plays 60 minutes and Rakitic isn't the creative output you are looking for . So basically Ev won the fucking league by a huge margin with Gomes , Paulinho , Paco , Vidal , Denis among our squad players . Compare that to the squad Madrid clubs are having . Had we played 433 , we would have lost league by a landslide margin . I am grateful for that

So if Barcelona fail next season, whats your excuse? Old players or no "holy trinity of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta"? Board fail to give him resources and he is "forced" to a 442.

Roma seemed like a pretty god like team then.

I didnt use the word fraud in this case maybe you got carried away by the other user. A painfully average manager would seemed more appropriate.

 

[RMU ReBorn]

So if Barcelona fail next season, whats your excuse? Old players or no "holy trinity of Messi, Xavi and Iniesta"? Board fail to give him resources and he is "forced" to a 442.

Roma seemed like a pretty god like team then.

I didnt use the word fraud in this case maybe you got carried away by the other user. A painfully average manager would seemed more appropriate.

" So if he failes this season " I guess i already answered that before . I believe he will deliver . If not i will agree with your assumption that he is painfully average. Till then let me trust the manager who won my club a domestic double by a fair margin .

 

[EdmondDantes]

I think Ernesto will try going for a 4-2-3-1 this season rather than the dreaded 4-4-2 or the 4-3-3 we all seem to want.


Didn't Arthur say 'the boss spoke to him about playing in a double pivot beside Busquets'?

 

[El Gato]

I think Ernesto will try going for a 4-2-3-1 this season rather than the dreaded 4-4-2 or the 4-3-3 we all seem to want.

Didn't Arthur say 'the boss spoke to him about playing in a double pivot beside Busquets'?

In a defensive transition Messi near always drops into the centre anyway from the SS/RW position he likes, so it effectively becomes a 4-2-3-1 fluidly. Still Barca will probably defend with two lines of 4. There'd be no point playing Coutinho as RM beyond the Roma game if the tactic wasn't going to stay.

Defensive setup usually ends up being the realistic interpretation, because it's the only time people pay attention to the system, when they actually get to see the lines and organisation behind the ball. Can't see it being anything other than a 4-4-2. You don't have a natural #10 to occupy the middle spot. Only Messi to drop in on occasion on the counter to send it wide for a rapid winger.

 

[PhilS]

Valverde is on the short list for FIFA manager of the year. Congrats. This is a much more accurate ranking for him than all the severe criticism he gets on this forum.

He'll look smarter if the depth on this year's squad proves they deserve more playing time than the bench deserved last year. I think this year's squad is already significantly deeper, Barca is a pretty good bet for the treble and Valverde for this upcoming season's FIFA manager of the year.

 

[soul24rage]

All I'm hoping from EV this season is to only play the kids/fringe players for the Copa del rey. We didn't play them much last season so just as well give them the Copa games to build experience. Plus our core players will need all the rest they can get. We have to win the CL this season no matter what.

 

[Andrew M]

Yeah I don't care about the Copa anymore. Just play youth/backups until the semis.

 

[vlad]

We probably would have done three in a row if it wasn't for the volcano and Bojan's goal being disallowed.

Also, barca could easily go out 2009 vs chelsea, only due to luck they were through, and 2012 you can only blame players and the coach, since they lost vs chelsea with player more, overall pep barca wasnt so dominant in CL like some of you want to think, against strong defensive side they struggled, they wouldnt do much better against simeone atletico also, most dominant year was 2011, where they didnt faced strong defensive team, vs real they were even until pepe got red card, and messi had magical performance
, also that year that comeback vs arsenal where messi scored 4 goals. In final ferguson's united would have much more chance if they played on counters

That pep barca could do much more in CL with such generation, looking how real won 3 in a row, but pep just refused to change approach sometimes when that was needed, he is doing same mistakes still in CL

Overall, barca didnt have enough weapon to defend CL title

 

[vlad]

That huge fail vs roma, cant be only EV fail, players also take part of the blame, they didnt even try.


With new players in that team, thats not enough, changing teams mentality is most important, getting rid of alba and pique would be also nice, but they will probably retire here


Edit: i honestly liked valverde's more conservative approach, that la liga unbeaten run was great, and i seriously zhought that would be good enough for CL, he will be under more pressure now, but i hope he doesnt go in full attacking mode with to much offensive players, thats good enough for la liga, but in CL every serious team would expose barca's lack of defensive effort

 

[MagIX]

4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or wahtever is not decisive...

What deciseve is: team spirit, work as unit, run and bleed and help in the defensive phase: fight as warriors and proud to wear barca shirt.

 

[Barcaman]

4-3-3 or 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 or wahtever is not decisive...

What deciseve is: team spirit, work as unit, run and bleed and help in the defensive phase: fight as warriors and proud to wear barca shirt.

Pretty much. We have abundance of quality. It's not about having best or nearly best in every position. You need hunger, cohesion, players fighting for each other and the club. Inspiring coach that players look up to and respect. (Think Lucho was close to all of that and I wouldn't mind having him back one day.)

My country used to play slow football with not much running and did fairly well considering but this World Cup really opened my eyes when I saw them transformed into hard-working inspired unit. And it's not like we were some side filled with kids looking to prove themselves. Those players won a lot in their clubs.

It can be done here in Barca too. We just need the right man in charge. Don't think Valverde has the balls or mandate to do that eventhough he is a solid coach.