serghei
Senior Member
I suggest you save some time and do a reverse checklist. But in this case you'd never post it to begin with since nothing changes with this moron.
I suggest you save some time and do a reverse checklist. But in this case you'd never post it to begin with since nothing changes with this moron.
Messigician
Senior Member
3 days rest for a home game is more than enough....
Felipetonelo
New member
When I wrote yesterday, I was really angry at him. Of course I don't want us to lose to Lyon and have an early exit, but man, this team became impossible to watch under Valverde. I'm watching Bolonha vs Cagliari right now, and besides the quality of the players, it's ten times more entertaining to watch this Bolonha team than Barca at the moment.
They can connect 10 passes going forward with players moving around the player who has the ball, offering passing lanes. They can make 1-touch pass without even looking to the guy they're passing, only by knowing their teammates is going to be there. That's the minimum possible that I would like to see at Barca, and yet we can't do that even tough we have several WC players.
Valverde made us a bunch of WC players playing by themselves, but not as a team together. That's the thing I'm most angry at, we simply don't have a system. If Arthur can deal with pressure and turn and start a new attack, is because he can do it by himself, not because other players moved to help him. If Semedo, who has a great speed, moves forward and have 0 options to pass at the wing, it's a system fail. Another example, we have several reasons to blame Coutinho for his lack of motivation, lack of energy, but he keeps getting wasted at LW and a blind person would see that. But Valverde can't see it.
Right now, our "system" is based on: individual stuff by Messi, individual stuff by Dembele, a poor connection between Arthur and the others in attack-midfield, good combination Messi-Alba but very predictable. I think it's that. That's really really poor considering that you have a team worth 1 billion and is named FC Barcelona. If the system is not working who's the one responsible to make it work? the manager. If we have just a few plays, who's the one in charge to think about new plays and to create the training workouts? the manager. Who's responsible for making rotations and using all of the squad? the manager.
It's impossible to not see that the majority of things that could be better in this team, it's Valverde fault.
They can connect 10 passes going forward with players moving around the player who has the ball, offering passing lanes. They can make 1-touch pass without even looking to the guy they're passing, only by knowing their teammates is going to be there. That's the minimum possible that I would like to see at Barca, and yet we can't do that even tough we have several WC players.
Valverde made us a bunch of WC players playing by themselves, but not as a team together. That's the thing I'm most angry at, we simply don't have a system. If Arthur can deal with pressure and turn and start a new attack, is because he can do it by himself, not because other players moved to help him. If Semedo, who has a great speed, moves forward and have 0 options to pass at the wing, it's a system fail. Another example, we have several reasons to blame Coutinho for his lack of motivation, lack of energy, but he keeps getting wasted at LW and a blind person would see that. But Valverde can't see it.
Right now, our "system" is based on: individual stuff by Messi, individual stuff by Dembele, a poor connection between Arthur and the others in attack-midfield, good combination Messi-Alba but very predictable. I think it's that. That's really really poor considering that you have a team worth 1 billion and is named FC Barcelona. If the system is not working who's the one responsible to make it work? the manager. If we have just a few plays, who's the one in charge to think about new plays and to create the training workouts? the manager. Who's responsible for making rotations and using all of the squad? the manager.
It's impossible to not see that the majority of things that could be better in this team, it's Valverde fault.
Valverde needs to deliver, the manager has a big role to play.
After all, he's the one who chooses the players/substitutes for the match. He made a mistake by not giving Malcom more time(which was quite easily doable). Malcom was specifically bought for these kind of situations, if the manager can't make use of him(despite him not that bad compared to playtime he gets), that's manager's fault.
Malcom should've been up and running by now, the XI against Rayo was overkill, he should've rested the main players.
If we go out against Lyon, Valverde should be the one responsible. This squad is world-class, its shameful if we don't go through.
After all, he's the one who chooses the players/substitutes for the match. He made a mistake by not giving Malcom more time(which was quite easily doable). Malcom was specifically bought for these kind of situations, if the manager can't make use of him(despite him not that bad compared to playtime he gets), that's manager's fault.
Malcom should've been up and running by now, the XI against Rayo was overkill, he should've rested the main players.
If we go out against Lyon, Valverde should be the one responsible. This squad is world-class, its shameful if we don't go through.
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Since when did you become a pro-Valverde
?3 days rest is ok, not enough, and unacceptable when its a crucial CL game which could possibly make or break season. You had a bottom table team, you didn't need to start most of main players (who are 30+ btw, not young, hence need more time to recover). Even CR7, who is fit af, knows rest is necessary. Suarez himself admitted they burnt out early last year.
You had an opportunity to play the subs to gain momentum, but you wasted. Now that Dembele is unavailable, it seems more evident that Malcom should've played more.
Sergi Roberto is a brilliant squad player, but that's it. He isn't the one who starts as the offensive winger(because we need one against Lyon, else its no different than Roma game), he has his moments, but they are irregular. Malcom is more suited for being Dembele replacement.
Now we will play a slow ass 442, with Roberto as RW. We will pass the ball to Messi, hoping it works out, or waiting Lyon to make a mistake. Mind you, this may work against teams like Lyon, but its not the way a squad like Barca should be playing against top teams.
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serghei
Senior Member
Yea man, that's the type of football you get with managers who like italian style rigid football, very position oriented, sort of stiff football you see at Inter for example, where there is also very very poor movement when in possession. We play like a form of Inter with better players. There's no difference between Spalletti for example and Valverde in terms of offensive expression, other than Spalletti being a slightly better manager arguably.
Idea is some managers just don't like players vacating their positions too much because it involves a degree of risk they're just unwilling to cope with, mainly due to not being brave and good enough to roll with that risk for the good of the team.
Mobile modern football basically involves loosening the meaning of position. It is basically allowed, especially in midfield - which is the motor of a team when in build-up - to slightly vacate your position (in a totally trained and non-chaotic way) and create numerical overload in important areas when the game asks it (usually when you have issues creating progression in the normal way). And this is how triangles, quick 1-2s (those sort of things which we normally associate with Barca football) are created.
It is called ball oriented approach. You modify the team's shape in relation to the ball, so that areas were the ball is unlikely to be played quickly are sacrificed in order to provide numerical advantage in the hot zones - i.e. areas where the ball is likely to be played first. City use this, Liverpool use this in their pressing setups, even PSG under Tuchel use this. Ajax use this, Dortmund use this, Napoli used it under Sarri a lot. Most teams who play entertaining football use it, with various degrees of success based on the level of the players you have.
We don't use it. We keep our positions almost with stubbornness, even when it is obvious that the opponent has it under control. We basically pass the ball in the channels we are allowed to pass, until the ball gets to a player who is trying to create danger on his own. This is obvious by the unusually high amount of passes from the center wide. We simply pass there because those are the areas that are left more open by any decent team who knows a thing or two about defending. There rarely is any vertical progress in possession. We usually have to get attacked to be able to find any way to create danger, which is basically the antithesis of Barcelona football, the type of reactionary stuff you see Atletico playing weekly.
serghei
Senior Member
It is a shame actually, because if next season we field a midfield out of Busi, Arthur and De Jong, each of these players is actually a CM-DM, meaning that you can have a great mobility in this midfield, with each player moving around. You can have instances where maybe if Busi is caught a bit advanced, De Jong could cover, or if De Jong is joining attack a bit, exploiting a bit of space, then Arthur can fill in the blanks and cover the space De Jong vacates. You can have a great mobile midfield which is very hard to block due to being great at passing and moving. You combine passing nous with mobility and that's the winning combo as far as midfield is concerned.
But all of this is useless if you have a manager who just plays these players in a more or less fixed position, not allowing them to do anything but pass the ball to the open player. Let's be honest here. The better the teams you play against, the less dangerous will the open player be. You may find free Messi vs Leganes, but in the CL later stages, free Messi is not happening except once every 40 mins or so. And this is where Valverde's football is a huge failure.
We are unable under him to create progression when one of these cases doesn't occur:
a) Messi does something on his own.
b) The oposing team makes a flagrant mistake
c) We are playing on the break, trying to imitate Simeone's Atletico Madrid.
There is no consistent progression in our positional game without one of these 3 factors. Point a) and point b) are very much influenced in our favor by the non-elite teams we face 90% of the time. Messi is 3 times more likely to decide games vs normal teams, compared to top class teams. And also, normal teams make more errors per 90 mins. than the top 8 teams in CL. So basically we win a lot of games by scoring goals due to point a) or b).
But at the end of the day, the only thing we alone can control as a team, no matter the quality of the opponent, is the c) point. And this basically means that all Ernie is trying to do here is making us a 3x more expensive and weaker version of Simeone's Atletico. Defend well, absorb the pressure, and create chances on the break in the space that is available to us.
Basically, under Valverde, we have no progression, when in possession, against teams who defend well and don't expose themselves by attacking us. This is why we create 2-3 chances per game. Those 2-3 chances is mostly what declined Messi is reduced to creating these days against a serious side playing defensively solid football.
But all of this is useless if you have a manager who just plays these players in a more or less fixed position, not allowing them to do anything but pass the ball to the open player. Let's be honest here. The better the teams you play against, the less dangerous will the open player be. You may find free Messi vs Leganes, but in the CL later stages, free Messi is not happening except once every 40 mins or so. And this is where Valverde's football is a huge failure.
We are unable under him to create progression when one of these cases doesn't occur:
a) Messi does something on his own.
b) The oposing team makes a flagrant mistake
c) We are playing on the break, trying to imitate Simeone's Atletico Madrid.
There is no consistent progression in our positional game without one of these 3 factors. Point a) and point b) are very much influenced in our favor by the non-elite teams we face 90% of the time. Messi is 3 times more likely to decide games vs normal teams, compared to top class teams. And also, normal teams make more errors per 90 mins. than the top 8 teams in CL. So basically we win a lot of games by scoring goals due to point a) or b).
But at the end of the day, the only thing we alone can control as a team, no matter the quality of the opponent, is the c) point. And this basically means that all Ernie is trying to do here is making us a 3x more expensive and weaker version of Simeone's Atletico. Defend well, absorb the pressure, and create chances on the break in the space that is available to us.
Basically, under Valverde, we have no progression, when in possession, against teams who defend well and don't expose themselves by attacking us. This is why we create 2-3 chances per game. Those 2-3 chances is mostly what declined Messi is reduced to creating these days against a serious side playing defensively solid football.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
If we exit Cl everything else is irrelevant. We've been dominant domestically for years.
I know Valverde apologists will say he won two doubles but at this point no one fucking cares. We play dour football. I actually enjoy watching other teams play nowadays.
I know Valverde apologists will say he won two doubles but at this point no one fucking cares. We play dour football. I actually enjoy watching other teams play nowadays.
serghei
Senior Member
Far from irrelevant imo, since titles are titles, and La Liga and Copa are among the biggest ones you can win, but yes, those can be won and have been won while playing much better football. So, under Valverde, I don't get what should we sacrificing our style for?
Felipetonelo
New member
Perfect. Specially about point (c) and Valverde trying to make us like Atletico, is the stupidest thing that he could possibly think, yet is the thing that he's trying hard to do. You have one of the best teams with the best players with the ball at their feet, yet you want them to play without the ball, like wtf? You have regular starters in attack (coutinho-messi-suarez) that offers almost nothing speed related, you have 3 in the middle (busquets-rakitic-arthur) who can't offer speed too, and you want to play counter attack style? Who's going to run? Ter Stegen and Pique sprinting forward? It's madness.
You have players with unquestionable technical abilites, players with high IQ, fast in small spaces, why can't Valverde create a system based on that? I get it, we have players that are slow, but not a single player is faster than the ball, so make the ball run. Pass fast and move 5 meters forward to keep the ball progressing. And do it again and again. And when Semedo, Dembele, Malcom, Alba are available, make a good use of their speed. Maybe it won't work, but it's better than what we have now: slow passes, lots of side passes, players no moving a single meter, no triangles, and some individual stuff here and there.
Basically, we don't have the players to play like Valverde would love to, so there's only 2 things to do: he can adapt his defensive approach to a better style that suits the players, or go to hell and leave.
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Well written!
LordLichtenstein
New member
It must be hard to create a system or even a proper flow of play, when a few players (incl. our captain) are so complacent that they don't run or contribute defensively. Just saying.
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