Ernesto Valverde - V1

[serghei]

At any top club in the world a manager would be fired after two absolutely shambolic debacles. At Barca the manager has the nerve to say, "It us what it is" ��

Not true at all.

Barely any club would fire a manager after possibly winning everything domestically in the last 2 seasons in a top 2 league like Spain's. Maybe only Madrid, but it's questionable in their case as well.

What we are asking is a bold move for a board, especially from Bartomeu & Co. who are anything but brave. Sacking Valverde would be the best decision, but let's not pretend that it's very easy to do it.

Highly doubt a Liverpool manager would get sacked after winning 2 Premier League and FA Cups back to back. More like they would build him a statue next to John Lennon in the city square or smth.

I'm at peace with it. Valverde will stay. He is a good fit for this board who clearly lacks the vision to take us to no1 in Europe again. We'll have to settle for top 5 in Europe and the best in Spain for the time being.

 

[raskolnikov]

Apples and oranges. Everyone knows Messi carries Valverde in la liga.
What cab we really give valverde credit for?
- he doesnt develop youth players
- has horrible rotations
- is a slave to senior players
- makes mourinho look like Pep
- had no vision or tactics
- made us a laughing stock in Europe two years in a row.


Valverde is exactly what would happen if a club didnt have a coach and let the team run it based on seniority.
If we didnt have Messi (and mats) along with Real being terrible two seasons in a row we would not have won la liga. I dont give him any credit for that.

I rate la liga highly but its not because of this mans genius or something.
Replace him with any other midtable la liga coach and the outcome is the same.

 

[serghei]

... who hasn't won a single CL after Barça while coaching very competitive and strong sides. Don't want to say City doesn't play attractive, but Pep's style is obviously more suited to win a league title than winning a CL. Valverde, the same. Zidane, the opposite.

The best thing Guardiola brings is not CLs. It is a complete myth that the most important thing in football is to win the CL no matter what tactics you use.

The magic of Guardiola is the great football he provides to fans on a weekly basis. The best thing I remember about 2009-11 Barcelona is not a specific CL game. It goes way beyond that. It is the extreme joy that got me come every Friday almost, because another weekend of total football brilliance was about to commence.

Hell, the best and most re-watched match for me was the 5-0 with Madrid which was a La Liga game in the middle of the season. Football perfection.

 

[serghei]

Apples and oranges. Everyone knows Messi carries Valverde in la liga.
What cab we really give valverde credit for?
- he doesnt develop youth players
- has horrible rotations
- is a slave to senior players
- makes mourinho look like Pep
- had no vision or tactics
- made us a laughing stock in Europe two years in a row.


Valverde is exactly what would happen if a club didnt have a coach and let the team run it based on seniority.
If we didnt have Messi (and mats) along with Real being terrible two seasons in a row we would not have won la liga. I dont give him any credit for that.

I rate la liga highly but its not because of this mans genius or something.
Replace him with any other midtable la liga coach and the outcome is the same.

The board doesn't really look at it this way. They see a team that has a firm hold in Spain and don't want to mess with it, despite the CL disappointments. Plus, it's not like we are the best team in Europe, to demand the CL no matter what.

Liverpool with Klopp in charge would play better than us at this point in time no matter who we appoint instead of Valverde, since I don't think Guardiola moves from City.

The Messi-factor is way way overrated on this forum when we judge this team in Europe. It's just an advantage, not even a decisive one.

We have to accept that Liverpool managed by Klopp are a better team than us right now. They were dominating us on Camp Nou FFS, nobody does that unless they are a top team playing their best football under a great manager.

 

[delancey]

We have a significantly better team than Liverpool but with leadership, skill and vision as poor as Valverde's, it is unsurprising that our playing style is subpar and our performance in the CL has been a total failure two years in a row. IMO it doesn't matter who we buy as long as our leadership, winning mentality (lack thereof) and playing style remain the same. Our players are not the problem - we should be proud to have the amount of quality that we have. Look at Klopp, he has to contend with Milner and Henderson. haha

If Valverde could get any players he wanted, he would still park the bus and defend 1-0 leads against small and mid-tier teams. What a coward! #ValverdeOut

 

[Ahmedd]

This situation is beyond words, if I understand correctly what is happening now the players wanted Valverde to stay so they can secure their places. And somehow players have the right to stop a transfer, that Valverde wanted, but he can’t say anything because if players let him down he will lose the iron throne. This is better drama than GoT season 8.

 

[Respekt_III]

The board doesn't really look at it this way. They see a team that has a firm hold in Spain and don't want to mess with it, despite the CL disappointments. Plus, it's not like we are the best team in Europe, to demand the CL no matter what.

Liverpool with Klopp in charge would play better than us at this point in time no matter who we appoint instead of Valverde, since I don't think Guardiola moves from City.

The Messi-factor is way way overrated on this forum when we judge this team in Europe. It's just an advantage, not even a decisive one.

We have to accept that Liverpool managed by Klopp are a better team than us right now. They were dominating us on Camp Nou FFS, nobody does that unless they are a top team playing their best football under a great manager.

Are you inferring that we don't have better players then them? because we most certainly fucking do. All we need is a competent coach with vision and an attacking philosophy. We got a mid table manager who has done fuck all his entire managerial career. He has shown 0 tactical awareness and makes his predetermined subs regardless of how the game is playing out.
We have no distinct attacking plays or patters other then pass it to Messi and hes been here 2 full season.

$1B+ squad and we play like a Tony Pulis team from the English championship... Its genuinely a fucking joke.

The Messi factor is certainly not overstated, he was the reason we won so many games in La Liga (as well as MATs and blind luck).

This is better drama than GoT season 8.

Anything is better than GoT S8

 

[serghei]

We have a significantly better team than Liverpool but with leadership, skill and vision as poor as Valverde's, it is unsurprising that our playing style is subpar and our performance in the CL has been a total failure two years in a row. IMO it doesn't matter who we buy as long as our leadership, winning mentality (lack thereof) and playing style remain the same. Our players are not the problem - we should be proud to have the amount of quality that we have. Look at Klopp, he has to contend with Milner and Henderson. haha

If Valverde could get any players he wanted, he would still park the bus and defend 1-0 leads against small and mid-tier teams. What a coward! #ValverdeOut

No we don't. We have better players, and a better squad. But not a better team, because the cohesion, team effort, work ethic, and playing relations between the Liverpool's albeit less individually gifted players are considerably higher than in our case. Everything except individual quality and talent they have more than us at this point in time. Football was always about forming a serious hard working team with the talent you have. At least this is required in Champions League.

We need to finally form a team, and the way things look right now, it's going to take 1-2 more seasons and a new manager. Until then what we can do is keep winning titles, because that is how success is achieved in the end.

Best we can do is stack the team with quality young players that will still be here and in their prime for when we get rid of Valverde and possibly this board (which I think it's no late than 2021, so two more years at most).

This is why signing De Jong and De Ligt (have to push hard), on top of Arthur, Lenglet, Dembele and others is very important.

 

[Calidad]

Not true at all.

Barely any club would fire a manager after possibly winning everything domestically in the last 2 seasons in a top 2 league like Spain's. Maybe only Madrid, but it's questionable in their case as well.

What we are asking is a bold move for a board, especially from Bartomeu & Co. who are anything but brave. Sacking Valverde would be the best decision, but let's not pretend that it's very easy to do it.

Highly doubt a Liverpool manager would get sacked after winning 2 Premier League and FA Cups back to back. More like they would build him a statue next to John Lennon in the city square or smth.

I'm at peace with it. Valverde will stay. He is a good fit for this board who clearly lacks the vision to take us to no1 in Europe again. We'll have to settle for top 5 in Europe and the best in Spain for the time being.

The issue is his brand of football. It’s turgid. You can just about justify keeping him if he’s winning everything, but as soon as that proves to not be the case there is little reason to rally behind him. The Roma and Liverpool games have to be up there with the most embarrassing results and performances ever and the worrying thing is that they weren’t even horribly surprising.

And I hate how his subs always seem pre-determined. “Must take Malcom off after 60 minutes” “Must sub off Semedo at half time if we haven’t scored” Must sub off Arthur after 65 minutes, well just because”

I can’t stand his style of management. He’s so inflexible and unless Messi goes GOAT mode, there’s literally nothing else going on. Dembele tries and he’s probably one of the few who tries to take responsibility and take things into his own hands, but god forbid he messes up because he’ll have “clinical” Suarez hurling abuse at him.

 

[serghei]

The issue is his brand of football. It’s turgid.

And I hate how his subs always seem pre-determined. “Must take Malcom off after 60 minutes” “Must sub off Semedo at half time if we haven’t scored” Must sub off Arthur after 65 minutes, well just because”

I can’t stand his style of management. He’s so inflexible and unless Messi goes GOAT mode, there’s literally nothing else going on. Dembele tries and he’s probably one of the few who tries to take responsibility and take things into his own hands, but god forbid he messes up because he’ll have “clinical” Suarez hurling abuse at him.

It's unfortunate, but these are normal stages in the life of a team. As frustrating as it is, we need to move on and do the best we can with current conditions. An old saying is you should not spend too much time with what you can't change, and focus on what you can change. What we can change now is the state of the squad next season.

The best thing we can do at the moment is take away some bad choices from Valverde and force De Jong in the team. Sell one of Rakitic or Busquets. Bring in De Ligt to put pressure on aging Pique. Same with Suarez. Bring in new blood up front to challenge for the no9 spot.

These will improve us a lot even with Valverde. Sell the underperforming players so Valverde can't play them to death. Shape the squad in such a way that Valverde's solutions to go cowardly defensive are limited.

 

[Zidane82]

Are you inferring that we don't have better players then them? because we most certainly fucking do. All we need is a competent coach with vision and an attacking philosophy. We got a mid table manager who has done fuck all his entire managerial career. He has shown 0 tactical awareness and makes his predetermined subs regardless of how the game is playing out.
We have no distinct attacking plays or patters other then pass it to Messi and hes been here 2 full season.

$1B+ squad and we play like a Tony Pulis team from the English championship... Its genuinely a fucking joke.

The Messi factor is certainly not overstated, he was the reason we won so many games in La Liga (as well as MATs and blind luck).


Anything is better than GoT S8

Going off performances over the last 12 months name one player that would walk into the current Liverpool starting eleven ( even Messi would be up for debate up against Salah ..

 

[Viscanou]

Messi is the GOAT on the field. But when it comes to fight for his legacy he is too passive. Ronaldo is the example to be followed, doesn’t see friends on his way to win another champions league. One call and Messi could make Valverde disappear. He is now paying the price to play with his friends and be loved. For me he is choosing a path and that’s fine, but don’t expect to be winning Uefa again with Messi’s friends.

 

[Respekt_III]

Going off performances over the last 12 months name one player that would walk into the current Liverpool starting eleven ( even Messi would be up for debate up against Salah ..

You are fucking deluded. Messi being debatable fuck me...

 

[henias]

It's unfortunate, but these are normal stages in the life of a team. As frustrating as it is, we need to move on and do the best we can with current conditions. An old saying is you should not spend too much time with what you can't change, and focus on what you can change. What we can change now is the state of the squad next season.

The best thing we can do at the moment is take away some bad choices from Valverde and force De Jong in the team. Sell one of Rakitic or Busquets. Bring in De Ligt to put pressure on aging Pique. Same with Suarez. Bring in new blood up front to challenge for the no9 spot.

These will improve us a lot even with Valverde. Sell the underperforming players so Valverde can't play them to death. Shape the squad in such a way that Valverde's solutions to go cowardly defensive are limited.

Easier said. If they get minimal playing time they can forget about improving. Having Valverde is bottlenecking the squad, and the senior players wont be sold. The board and manager are depending on them for another "famous double", which is not guaranteed anymore next season.

 

[serghei]

Easier said. If they get minimal playing time they can forget about improving. Having Valverde is bottlenecking the squad, and the senior players wont be sold. The board and manager are depending on them for another "famous double", which is not guaranteed anymore next season.

In this case take comfort in that, if there won't be at least a league title win next season, Valverde is as good as gone. Trust me, you can have idiotic managers keeping their place with nothing to show for, now that is really a disastrous scenario. At least Valverde won't stay at Barcelona if he doesn't bring titles. A bit of a win win for us, as odd as it sounds.

Valverde + big titles, or no Valverde + building a new team in 2020.