Ernesto Valverde

[Raketa10]

I hope we win today because it's crucial for the next CL phase but to be fair I don't expect will trash them. We are just awful and we can't say will trash anyone anymore. To be fair as long as we secure first place in our CL group I hope we get trashed in La Liga as much as possible just to get rid of this imbecile on our bench. If we don't get rid of this idiot before the CL elimination phase we will be destroyed by any half serious team.

 

[BBZ8800]

BBZ those games we played against Lpool and Roma in away matches were as far away from Pep's style as it gets. We had ZERO control in those games and opponents slaughtered us. There is one thing Barca never knew how to do and that's defending without the ball. That's exactly what we tried to do against Lpool (away) and look how that ended. Having the ball in your feet is the best possible way of defending especially if you are physically weak like we are. There is also one more thing which all of us tend to forget. Advantage of Pep's football was not just in ball possession but also in strong pressing immediately after possession was lost and IMHO that's something we miss the most these days. I can maybe remember 2 or 3 games last season where we pressed high and that's it. And even in those games we managed to sustain that pressing for 25-30 minutes max. Our team with these players simply can't do that anymore and that's probably our No.1 problem alongside with having a braindead manager on the bench.

This part when you talk about "Pep's" football.
My point is: we had similar problems way before Pep.
Even our original "father" Crujff, who imposed this style to us, had unbelievable horrible CL KO results away from home.

I will expand my stats from previous posts now.
But first, maybe "the system really IS THE PROBLEM"?
Look at Crujff's CL results in KO matches.
This is truly shocking, lol:

1992:
Round of 32: Hansa Rostock 3:1, A0:1
1/8: Kaiserslautern 2:0, A1:3

1993:
Round of 32: Viking 1:0, A0:0
1/8: Cska Moscow A1:1, 2:3

1994:
Round of 32: Dinamo Kiev A1:3, 4:1
1/8: Austria Wien 3:0, A2:1

1995:
1/4: Psg 1:1, A1:2

Crujff total in KO matches:
Home: 5-1-1, 16:6
Away: 1-2-4, 6:11

Percentage of wins at home:
76% Barca
73% Pep
71% Crujff
67% Bayern
64% Real

Percentage of wins away:
46% Real
41% Bayern
28% Barca
23% Pep
14% Crujff

Defeats at home:
3% Barca
12% Pep
14% Crujff
21% Real
22% Bayern

Defeats away:
57% Crujff
41% Barca
38% Pep
37% Bayern
36% Real

Goals scored per match at home:
3,23 Pep
2,83 Barca
2,67 Bayern
2,29 Crujff
2,18 Real

Goals scored per match away:
1,70 Bayern
1,57 Real
1,15 Pep
1,00 Barca
0,86 Crujff

Goals conceded per match at home:
0,72 Barca
0,86 Crujff
1,07 Real
1,11 Bayern
1,23 Pep

Goals conceded per match away:
1,57 Crujff
1,52 Barca
1,35 Pep
1,33 Bayern
1,21 Real

Percentage of wins at home vs away:
71:14% Crujff (57 points difference)
73:23% Pep (50 points difference)
76:28% Barca (48 points difference)
67:41% Bayern (26 points difference)
64:46% Real (18 points difference)

Goals scored per match at home vs away:
3,23:1,15 Pep (2,08 goals per match difference)
2,83:1,00 Barca (1,83 goals per match difference)
2,29:0,86 Crujff (1,43 goals per match difference)
2,67:1,70 Bayern (0,97 goals per match difference)
2,18:1,57 Real (0,61 goals per match difference)

Goals conceded per match away vs home:
1,52:0,72 Barca (0,80 goals per match difference)
1,57:0,86 Crujff (0,71 goals per match difference)
1,33:1,11 Bayern (0,22 goals per match difference)
1,21:1,07 Real (0,14 goals per match difference)
1,23:1,35 Pep (0,12 goals per match difference)

Then we didn't play a CL for 3 years after Crujff, because we didn't win La Ligas.
Our return to a CL was in 1998 with Van Gaal, who played EVEN MORE ATTACKING than Crujff with 343 (in late 90s) in every single match.
He was KOd in a group stage in 1998 and 1999.
And in 2000, he survived 2 group stages (that's how it was played back then), and then qualified to KO matches with:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1 (extra time)
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

So, basically in the whole DECADE of 90s, Barca has played 9 KO matches in a CL (Crujff and Van Gaal).
And our total record with a total football is:
Home: 7-1-1, 23:8
Away: 1-2-6, 8:18

So, in the WHOLE DECADE of 90s, our mighty too attacking style managed to get 1 AWAY win in 9 matches (against a crappy Austria Wien in 1/8 in 1994).
I will now merge 90s with my post since 1999/2000 season, and these are ALL Barca's CL KO Matches since introduction of Crujff's Dream Team in 1988':
1992:
Round of 32: Hansa Rostock 3:1, A0:1
1/8: Kaiserslautern 2:0, A1:3

1993:
Round of 32: Viking 1:0, A0:0
1/8: Cska Moscow A1:1, 2:3

1994:
Round of 32: Dinamo Kiev A1:3, 4:1
1/8: Austria Wien 3:0, A2:1

1995:
1/4: Psg 1:1, A1:2

2000:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

2002:
1/4: Panathinaikos A0:1, 3:1
1/2: Real 0:2, A1:1

2003:
1/4: Juve A1:1, 1:2

2005:
1/8: Chelsea 2:1, A2:4

2006:
1/8: Chelsea A2:1, 1:1
1/4: Benfica A0:0, 2:0
1/2: Milan A1:0, 0:0

2007:
1/8: Liverpool 1:2, A1:0

2008:
1/8: Celtic A3:2, 1:0
1/4: Schalke A1:0, 1:0
1/2: Man Utd 0:0, A0:1

2009:
1/8: Lyon A1:1, 5:2
1/4: Bayern 4:0, A1:1
1/2: Chelsea 0:0, A1:1

2010:
1/8: Stuttgart A1:1, 4:0
1/4: Arsenal A2:2, 4:1
1/2: Inter A1:3, 1:0

2011:
1/8: Arsenal A1:2, 3:1
1/4: Shakhtar 5:1, A1:0
1/2: Real A2:0, 1:1

2012:
1/8: Leverkusen A3:1, 7:1
1/4: Milan A0:0, 3:1
1/2: Chelsea A0:1, 2:2

2013:
1/8: Milan A0:2, 4:0 70:23
1/4: Psg A2:2, 1:1
1/2: Bayern A0:4, 0:3

2014:
1/8: City A2:0, 2:1
1/4: Atletico 1:1, A0:1

2015:
1/8: City A2:1, 1:0
1/4: Psg A3:1, 2:0
1/2: Bayern 3:0, A2:3

2016:
1/8: Arsenal A2:0, 3:1
1/4: Atletico 2:1, A0:2

2017:
1/8: Psg A0:4, 6:1
1/4: Juve A0:3, 0:0

2018:
1/8: Chelsea A1:1, 3:0
1/4: Roma 4:1, A0:3

2019:
1/8: Lyon A0:0, 5:1
1/4: Man Utd A1:0, 3:0
1/2: Liverpool 3:0, A0:4

Now, I will cherry pick and EXCLUDE Rijkaard from these stats, because imo, that is the only time in the last 30 years when we have actually adopted a mix of Italian tactical/defensive approach mixed with Barca's possession, attacking and Joga Bonita.
Total: 30-7-4 (41 matches), 109:34
Away: 9-13-19, 39:65

Now, I will add Barca (1991-2019) to my table also:
For the end, I'll add also Juve in the last 10 years (since Pep), from 2008-2019:
Juve:
2009:
Chelsea A0:1, 2:2
2013:
Celtic A3:0, 2:0
Bayern A0:2, 0:2
2015: Borussia 2:1, A3:0
Monaco 1:0, A0:0
Real 2:1, A1:1
2016: Bayern 2:2, A2:4
2017: Porto A2:0, 1:0
Barca 3:0, A0:0
Monaco A2:0, 2:1
2018: Tott 2:2, A2:1
Real 0:3, A3:1
2019:
Atletico A0:2, 3:0
Ajax A1:1, 1:2

Home: 8-3-3 (14 matches) 23:16
Away: 6-4-4, 19:13

And here are the final results:
*********************************************************
Percentage of wins at home:
76% Barca (200
73% Barca (1991-)
73% Pep
71% Crujff
67% Bayern (200
64% Real (200
57% Juve (200

Percentage of wins away:
46% Real (200
43% Juve (200
41% Bayern (200
28% Barca (200
23% Pep
22% Barca (1991-)
14% Crujff

Defeats at home:
3% Barca (200
10% Barca (1991-)
12% Pep
14% Crujff
21% Real (200
21% Juve (200
22% Bayern (200

Defeats away:
57% Crujff
46% Barca (1991-)
41% Barca (200
38% Pep
37% Bayern (200
36% Real (200
29% Juve (200

Goals scored per match at home:
3,23 Pep
2,83 Barca (2008)
2,66 Barca (1991)
2,67 Bayern
2,29 Crujff
2,18 Real
1,64 Juve

Goals scored per match away:
1,70 Bayern
1,57 Real
1,36 Juve
1,15 Pep
1,00 Barca (2008)
0,95 Barca (1991)
0,86 Crujff

Goals conceded per match at home:
0,72 Barca (2008)
0,83 Barca (1991)
0,86 Crujff
1,07 Real
1,11 Bayern
1,14 Juve
1,23 Pep

Goals conceded per match away:
1,59 Barca (1991-)
1,57 Crujff
1,52 Barca (2008)
1,35 Pep
1,33 Bayern
1,21 Real
0,93 Juve

Percentage of wins at home vs away:
71:14% Crujff (57 points difference)
73:22% Barca 1991 (51 points difference)
73:23% Pep (50 points difference)
76:28% Barca 2008 (48 points difference)
67:41% Bayern (26 points difference)
64:43% Juve (21 points difference)
64:46% Real (18 points difference)

Goals scored per match at home vs away:
3,23:1,15 Pep (2,08 goals per match difference)
2,83:1,00 Barca 2008 (1,83 goals per match difference)
2,66:0,95 Barca 1991 (1,71 goals per match difference)
2,29:0,86 Crujff (1,43 goals per match difference)
2,67:1,70 Bayern (0,97 goals per match difference)
2,18:1,57 Real (0,61 goals per match difference)
1,64:1,36 Juve (0,28 goals per match difference)

Goals conceded per match away vs home:
1,52:0,72 Barca 2008 (0,80 goals per match difference)
1,59:0,83 Barca 1991 (0,76 goals per match difference)
1,57:0,86 Crujff (0,71 goals per match difference)
1,33:1,11 Bayern (0,22 goals per match difference)
1,21:1,07 Real (0,14 goals per match difference)
1,23:1,35 Pep (0,12 goals per match difference)
0,93:1,14 Juve (+0,21 POSITIVE goal difference)

Even now, with more stats and different eras and clubs, it is obvious:
1. Barca since 1991, Barca since 2008 and Pep=are GOATs of home matches and league matches
2. but BOTH Barca since 1991, Barca since 2008 and Pep=are worse than BOTH Real, Juve and Bayern in every single department regarding AWAY Champions league KO matches:
Less wins, more defeats, more goals conceded, less goals scored, the most likely to get hammered 3:0 etc.

Now my pain during the last 25-ish years of watching Barca in a CL, especially in away matches, makes much more sense.

 

[Raketa10]

WOW those "away match" stats look horrible indeed!

 

[Messigician]

This part when you talk about "Pep's" football.
My point is: we had similar problems way before Pep.
Even our original "father" Crujff, who imposed this style to us, had unbelievable horrible CL KO results away from home.

I will expand my stats from previous posts now.
But first, maybe "the system really IS THE PROBLEM"?
Look at Crujff's CL results in KO matches.
This is truly shocking, lol:

1992:
Round of 32: Hansa Rostock 3:1, A0:1
1/8: Kaiserslautern 2:0, A1:3

1993:
Round of 32: Viking 1:0, A0:0
1/8: Cska Moscow A1:1, 2:3

1994:
Round of 32: Dinamo Kiev A1:3, 4:1
1/8: Austria Wien 3:0, A2:1

1995:
1/4: Psg 1:1, A1:2

Crujff total in KO matches:
Home: 5-1-1, 16:6
Away: 1-2-4, 6:11

Percentage of wins at home:
76% Barca
73% Pep
71% Crujff
67% Bayern
64% Real

Percentage of wins away:
46% Real
41% Bayern
28% Barca
23% Pep
14% Crujff

Defeats at home:
3% Barca
12% Pep
14% Crujff
21% Real
22% Bayern

Defeats away:
57% Crujff
41% Barca
38% Pep
37% Bayern
36% Real

Goals scored per match at home:
3,23 Pep
2,83 Barca
2,67 Bayern
2,29 Crujff
2,18 Real

Goals scored per match away:
1,70 Bayern
1,57 Real
1,15 Pep
1,00 Barca
0,86 Crujff

Goals conceded per match at home:
0,72 Barca
0,86 Crujff
1,07 Real
1,11 Bayern
1,23 Pep

Goals conceded per match away:
1,57 Crujff
1,52 Barca
1,35 Pep
1,33 Bayern
1,21 Real

Percentage of wins at home vs away:
71:14% Crujff (57 points difference)
73:23% Pep (50 points difference)
76:28% Barca (48 points difference)
67:41% Bayern (26 points difference)
64:46% Real (18 points difference)

Goals scored per match at home vs away:
3,23:1,15 Pep (2,08 goals per match difference)
2,83:1,00 Barca (1,83 goals per match difference)
2,29:0,86 Crujff (1,43 goals per match difference)
2,67:1,70 Bayern (0,97 goals per match difference)
2,18:1,57 Real (0,61 goals per match difference)

Goals conceded per match away vs home:
1,52:0,72 Barca (0,80 goals per match difference)
1,57:0,86 Crujff (0,71 goals per match difference)
1,33:1,11 Bayern (0,22 goals per match difference)
1,21:1,07 Real (0,14 goals per match difference)
1,23:1,35 Pep (0,12 goals per match difference)

Then we didn't play a CL for 3 years after Crujff, because we didn't win La Ligas.
Our return to a CL was in 1998 with Van Gaal, who played EVEN MORE ATTACKING than Crujff with 343 (in late 90s) in every single match.
He was KOd in a group stage in 1998 and 1999.
And in 2000, he survived 2 group stages (that's how it was played back then), and then qualified to KO matches with:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1 (extra time)
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

So, basically in the whole DECADE of 90s, Barca has played 9 KO matches in a CL (Crujff and Van Gaal).
And our total record with a total football is:
Home: 7-1-1, 23:8
Away: 1-2-6, 8:18

So, in the WHOLE DECADE of 90s, our mighty too attacking style managed to get 1 AWAY win in 9 matches (against a crappy Austria Wien in 1/8 in 1994).
I will now merge 90s with my post since 1999/2000 season, and these are ALL Barca's CL KO Matches since introduction of Crujff's Dream Team in 1988':
1992:
Round of 32: Hansa Rostock 3:1, A0:1
1/8: Kaiserslautern 2:0, A1:3

1993:
Round of 32: Viking 1:0, A0:0
1/8: Cska Moscow A1:1, 2:3

1994:
Round of 32: Dinamo Kiev A1:3, 4:1
1/8: Austria Wien 3:0, A2:1

1995:
1/4: Psg 1:1, A1:2

2000:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

2002:
1/4: Panathinaikos A0:1, 3:1
1/2: Real 0:2, A1:1

2003:
1/4: Juve A1:1, 1:2

2005:
1/8: Chelsea 2:1, A2:4

2006:
1/8: Chelsea A2:1, 1:1
1/4: Benfica A0:0, 2:0
1/2: Milan A1:0, 0:0

2007:
1/8: Liverpool 1:2, A1:0

2008:
1/8: Celtic A3:2, 1:0
1/4: Schalke A1:0, 1:0
1/2: Man Utd 0:0, A0:1

2009:
1/8: Lyon A1:1, 5:2
1/4: Bayern 4:0, A1:1
1/2: Chelsea 0:0, A1:1

2010:
1/8: Stuttgart A1:1, 4:0
1/4: Arsenal A2:2, 4:1
1/2: Inter A1:3, 1:0

2011:
1/8: Arsenal A1:2, 3:1
1/4: Shakhtar 5:1, A1:0
1/2: Real A2:0, 1:1

2012:
1/8: Leverkusen A3:1, 7:1
1/4: Milan A0:0, 3:1
1/2: Chelsea A0:1, 2:2

2013:
1/8: Milan A0:2, 4:0 70:23
1/4: Psg A2:2, 1:1
1/2: Bayern A0:4, 0:3

2014:
1/8: City A2:0, 2:1
1/4: Atletico 1:1, A0:1

2015:
1/8: City A2:1, 1:0
1/4: Psg A3:1, 2:0
1/2: Bayern 3:0, A2:3

2016:
1/8: Arsenal A2:0, 3:1
1/4: Atletico 2:1, A0:2

2017:
1/8: Psg A0:4, 6:1
1/4: Juve A0:3, 0:0

2018:
1/8: Chelsea A1:1, 3:0
1/4: Roma 4:1, A0:3

2019:
1/8: Lyon A0:0, 5:1
1/4: Man Utd A1:0, 3:0
1/2: Liverpool 3:0, A0:4

Now, I will cherry pick and EXCLUDE Rijkaard from these stats, because imo, that is the only time in the last 30 years when we have actually adopted a mix of Italian tactical/defensive approach mixed with Barca's possession, attacking and Joga Bonita.
Total: 30-7-4 (41 matches), 109:34
Away: 9-13-19, 39:65

Now, I will add Barca (1991-2019) to my table also:
For the end, I'll add also Juve in the last 10 years (since Pep), from 2008-2019:
Juve:
2009:
Chelsea A0:1, 2:2
2013:
Celtic A3:0, 2:0
Bayern A0:2, 0:2
2015: Borussia 2:1, A3:0
Monaco 1:0, A0:0
Real 2:1, A1:1
2016: Bayern 2:2, A2:4
2017: Porto A2:0, 1:0
Barca 3:0, A0:0
Monaco A2:0, 2:1
2018: Tott 2:2, A2:1
Real 0:3, A3:1
2019:
Atletico A0:2, 3:0
Ajax A1:1, 1:2

Home: 8-3-3 (14 matches) 23:16
Away: 6-4-4, 19:13

And here are the final results:
*********************************************************
Percentage of wins at home:
76% Barca (200
73% Barca (1991-)
73% Pep
71% Crujff
67% Bayern (200
64% Real (200
57% Juve (200

Percentage of wins away:
46% Real (200
43% Juve (200
41% Bayern (200
28% Barca (200
23% Pep
22% Barca (1991-)
14% Crujff

Defeats at home:
3% Barca (200
10% Barca (1991-)
12% Pep
14% Crujff
21% Real (200
21% Juve (200
22% Bayern (200

Defeats away:
57% Crujff
46% Barca (1991-)
41% Barca (200
38% Pep
37% Bayern (200
36% Real (200
29% Juve (200

Goals scored per match at home:
3,23 Pep
2,83 Barca (2008)
2,66 Barca (1991)
2,67 Bayern
2,29 Crujff
2,18 Real
1,64 Juve

Goals scored per match away:
1,70 Bayern
1,57 Real
1,36 Juve
1,15 Pep
1,00 Barca (2008)
0,95 Barca (1991)
0,86 Crujff

Goals conceded per match at home:
0,72 Barca (2008)
0,83 Barca (1991)
0,86 Crujff
1,07 Real
1,11 Bayern
1,14 Juve
1,23 Pep

Goals conceded per match away:
1,59 Barca (1991-)
1,57 Crujff
1,52 Barca (2008)
1,35 Pep
1,33 Bayern
1,21 Real
0,93 Juve

Percentage of wins at home vs away:
71:14% Crujff (57 points difference)
73:22% Barca 1991 (51 points difference)
73:23% Pep (50 points difference)
76:28% Barca 2008 (48 points difference)
67:41% Bayern (26 points difference)
64:43% Juve (21 points difference)
64:46% Real (18 points difference)

Goals scored per match at home vs away:
3,23:1,15 Pep (2,08 goals per match difference)
2,83:1,00 Barca 2008 (1,83 goals per match difference)
2,66:0,95 Barca 1991 (1,71 goals per match difference)
2,29:0,86 Crujff (1,43 goals per match difference)
2,67:1,70 Bayern (0,97 goals per match difference)
2,18:1,57 Real (0,61 goals per match difference)
1,64:1,36 Juve (0,28 goals per match difference)

Goals conceded per match away vs home:
1,52:0,72 Barca 2008 (0,80 goals per match difference)
1,59:0,83 Barca 1991 (0,76 goals per match difference)
1,57:0,86 Crujff (0,71 goals per match difference)
1,33:1,11 Bayern (0,22 goals per match difference)
1,21:1,07 Real (0,14 goals per match difference)
1,23:1,35 Pep (0,12 goals per match difference)
0,93:1,14 Juve (+0,21 POSITIVE goal difference)

Even now, with more stats and different eras and clubs, it is obvious:
1. Barca since 1991, Barca since 2008 and Pep=are GOATs of home matches and league matches
2. but BOTH Barca since 1991, Barca since 2008 and Pep=are worse than BOTH Real, Juve and Bayern in every single department regarding AWAY Champions league KO matches:
Less wins, more defeats, more goals conceded, less goals scored, the most likely to get hammered 3:0 etc.

Now my pain during the last 25-ish years of watching Barca in a CL, especially in away matches, makes much more sense.

Yes you have a point. I think it has to do with the size of the pitch, camp you is very large and expansive while we struggle with narrow pitches like Anfield.

We must keep the same,system for home games but change the away games system

 

[Raketa10]

Yes you have a point. I think it has to do with the size of the pitch, camp you is very large and expansive while we struggle with narrow pitches like Anfield.

We must keep the same,system for home games but change the away games system

In recent years pitch size for CL has been strictly defined as 105m long and 68m wide. Deviations are minimal so pitches today are all basically the same. Camp Nou pitch is no bigger than any other nowadays. It's just an optical illusion so that's not the cause.

 

[BBZ8800]

Yes you have a point. I think it has to do with the size of the pitch, camp you is very large and expansive while we struggle with narrow pitches like Anfield.

We must keep the same,system for home games but change the away games system

It could be a mixture of 10s of reasons.
From the basic:
1. lighter, players with a weak physique are good enough as long as we play at home (or against inferior La Liga teams) and control possession and matches.
When we move away to a hostile environment and lose possession, control, crowd support and home filed ref's help=light players are bullied and outran.
2. aerial strength and height: again, when we play at home (and against inferior La Liga teams, who are also short), as long as we dominate and control matches at Camp Nou, then long balls, crosses and corners are not a problem since the opponent can barely enter into our half.
But again, once when we move away from Camp Nou, we are losing this advantage, control and domination.
On away matches, home teams are able to get more of the ball and then they are attacking us with long balls, crosses and corners.
And we suck horribly in that area.
Remember:
2016: Griezmann header for 1:0 at Calderon, 2nd leg
2017: Chiellini header after a corner for 3:0 in Torino, 1st leg
2018: Manolas header for a KO and 3:0 in Rome, 2nd leg
2019: Wijnaldum header for 3:0 at Anfield and Origi after a corner for 4:0
Those things won't happen in La Liga where all the opponents are short and technical.
And this won't happen at Camp Nou, since we have the ball for like 75-80% of possession of time, so we don't have to defend against crosses and headers at home.
3. Pace of our players, midfielders and defenders defensive wise.
Again, at Camp Nou with 80% of possession, that is not a problem.
Away from home in hostile environment in 50:50 matches=a huge problem.
4. a lack of captains, leaders and a fighting spirit.
Again, we can survive without those at Camp Nou infront of 100 000 crazy fans, with a home field (usual) ref's help and with our 80% possession.
But when we enter Anfield, Calderon and similar, we are without our fans, without captains, without leaders, without a fighting spirit, paired with ref's help for a home team, dirty tackles and 80 000 opponent's fans=and we look like frightened kids who are bullied by warriors.
5. as always, I would add our sterile attacking one-dimensional play where even under Crujff, Pep and majority of coaches: we had shorter attackers who can score only with feet and from possession play.
That style again works awesome in LA Liga against weaker teams and at CAmp Nou in a CL with 80% possession: since we get a chance to recycle the same action till death, until we score.
On away CL KO matches, we get less possession, we are bullied and refs usually allow dirtier play (which suit dirty/physical home teams).
In those circumstances, Messis, Saviolas, Romarios and similar=are often easily tackled and bullied on away matches.
On the other hand, WHO is able to score and create chances consistently on AWAY CL matches?
= teams who have more attacking weapons, especially more physical strength and height in attack, for crosses and headers to unlock defenses in away matches=Real with CR7 and Benzema, Juve with Morata, Mandzukic, CR7, Bayern with Lewandowski, Mandzukic and other tall/strong CFs.
6. complacency of our team, since Van Gaal said: Barca's players always say: we are the best.

One more time, the funny thing is that Rijkaard's Barca in 2006 had all these Italian ingredients: more physique, more aerial strength, attackers who can score both with feet and head (Etoo, Larsson), we had more fighters in Puyol, Van Bommel, Motta, Edmilson etc.
This is why I to some extent dislike Pep's style.
Pep has raised our HOME game to even higher level.
But also, he has pushed our away game to even lower levels due to a nature of his players, too much attacking, too high attacking line, zero leaders, thugs and a fighting spirit in a team.
Some guys will here offend again and say that football is not a fighting sport, but honestly: Jesus, Sterling, David Silva, De Bruyne, lol.
Those guys are always extremely nice guys, who will probably get bullied by some random thugs in the 2nd leg on a CL 1/4s in 2020, as always.

Some people here are dreaming about Frenkie-Arthur-Puig combos for the future.
Those things might work in La Liga and in HOME CL matches when we have the ball for 80% of a match and we have 100 000 fans as the 12th player.
On away CL matches, imo it is always better to have 1-2-3 crazy guys like him over the field:

 

[Riordon]

Agree on a lot of your points BBZ800. A lot of Barca fans started to watch Barca in 2008 and no nothing about the club prior to that.

 

[MTL_Barca]

Ernie plays as cautious and non-attacking as it's possible with this club and loves nothing more than fielding safe 4-4-2 formations with extra CMs. Against Liverpool it was Rakitic, Vidal, Busquets for example. Still got humiliated.

I don't see where exactly you are going with this. We've seen different approaches to the "Barca style" and we also saw it can be successful. We also know it won't be abandoned even if the current board and Valverde try their best.

Of course dedication to a style like that brings problems with it, otherwise it would be the only way to win but it clearly isn't. But it also has positive effects, we just rarely see them these days.

The style itself also doesn't mean you automatically have a slow, mentally weak team with no striker etc. Physical strength/height yeah that's more of a consequence as shorter players often are better suited for fast passing in tiny spaces but that also goes with having an edge when it comes to passing, offensive 1v1s etc at least it should be this way. In recent years the lack of pressing the opponent, the lack of speed and the lack of superior technique and passing were just as or even more important than a lack of height or strength and nothing if that stems from playing "Barca style" it stems from poor squad planning and mediocre coaching.

 

[FCBfan22]

BBZ, can you please put those stats in spoilers...

My mouse and fingers say thank you.

 

[snowy]

This part when you talk about "Pep's" football.
My point is: we had similar problems way before Pep.
Even our original "father" Crujff, who imposed this style to us, had unbelievable horrible CL KO results away from home.

I will expand my stats from previous posts now.
But first, maybe "the system really IS THE PROBLEM"?
Look at Crujff's CL results in KO matches.
This is truly shocking, lol:

1992:
Round of 32: Hansa Rostock 3:1, A0:1
1/8: Kaiserslautern 2:0, A1:3

1993:
Round of 32: Viking 1:0, A0:0
1/8: Cska Moscow A1:1, 2:3

1994:
Round of 32: Dinamo Kiev A1:3, 4:1
1/8: Austria Wien 3:0, A2:1

1995:
1/4: Psg 1:1, A1:2

Crujff total in KO matches:
Home: 5-1-1, 16:6
Away: 1-2-4, 6:11

Percentage of wins at home:
76% Barca
73% Pep
71% Crujff
67% Bayern
64% Real

Percentage of wins away:
46% Real
41% Bayern
28% Barca
23% Pep
14% Crujff

Defeats at home:
3% Barca
12% Pep
14% Crujff
21% Real
22% Bayern

Defeats away:
57% Crujff
41% Barca
38% Pep
37% Bayern
36% Real

Goals scored per match at home:
3,23 Pep
2,83 Barca
2,67 Bayern
2,29 Crujff
2,18 Real

Goals scored per match away:
1,70 Bayern
1,57 Real
1,15 Pep
1,00 Barca
0,86 Crujff

Goals conceded per match at home:
0,72 Barca
0,86 Crujff
1,07 Real
1,11 Bayern
1,23 Pep

Goals conceded per match away:
1,57 Crujff
1,52 Barca
1,35 Pep
1,33 Bayern
1,21 Real

Percentage of wins at home vs away:
71:14% Crujff (57 points difference)
73:23% Pep (50 points difference)
76:28% Barca (48 points difference)
67:41% Bayern (26 points difference)
64:46% Real (18 points difference)

Goals scored per match at home vs away:
3,23:1,15 Pep (2,08 goals per match difference)
2,83:1,00 Barca (1,83 goals per match difference)
2,29:0,86 Crujff (1,43 goals per match difference)
2,67:1,70 Bayern (0,97 goals per match difference)
2,18:1,57 Real (0,61 goals per match difference)

Goals conceded per match away vs home:
1,52:0,72 Barca (0,80 goals per match difference)
1,57:0,86 Crujff (0,71 goals per match difference)
1,33:1,11 Bayern (0,22 goals per match difference)
1,21:1,07 Real (0,14 goals per match difference)
1,23:1,35 Pep (0,12 goals per match difference)

Then we didn't play a CL for 3 years after Crujff, because we didn't win La Ligas.
Our return to a CL was in 1998 with Van Gaal, who played EVEN MORE ATTACKING than Crujff with 343 (in late 90s) in every single match.
He was KOd in a group stage in 1998 and 1999.
And in 2000, he survived 2 group stages (that's how it was played back then), and then qualified to KO matches with:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1 (extra time)
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

So, basically in the whole DECADE of 90s, Barca has played 9 KO matches in a CL (Crujff and Van Gaal).
And our total record with a total football is:
Home: 7-1-1, 23:8
Away: 1-2-6, 8:18

So, in the WHOLE DECADE of 90s, our mighty too attacking style managed to get 1 AWAY win in 9 matches (against a crappy Austria Wien in 1/8 in 1994).
I will now merge 90s with my post since 1999/2000 season, and these are ALL Barca's CL KO Matches since introduction of Crujff's Dream Team in 1988':
1992:
Round of 32: Hansa Rostock 3:1, A0:1
1/8: Kaiserslautern 2:0, A1:3

1993:
Round of 32: Viking 1:0, A0:0
1/8: Cska Moscow A1:1, 2:3

1994:
Round of 32: Dinamo Kiev A1:3, 4:1
1/8: Austria Wien 3:0, A2:1

1995:
1/4: Psg 1:1, A1:2

2000:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

2002:
1/4: Panathinaikos A0:1, 3:1
1/2: Real 0:2, A1:1

2003:
1/4: Juve A1:1, 1:2

2005:
1/8: Chelsea 2:1, A2:4

2006:
1/8: Chelsea A2:1, 1:1
1/4: Benfica A0:0, 2:0
1/2: Milan A1:0, 0:0

2007:
1/8: Liverpool 1:2, A1:0

2008:
1/8: Celtic A3:2, 1:0
1/4: Schalke A1:0, 1:0
1/2: Man Utd 0:0, A0:1

2009:
1/8: Lyon A1:1, 5:2
1/4: Bayern 4:0, A1:1
1/2: Chelsea 0:0, A1:1

2010:
1/8: Stuttgart A1:1, 4:0
1/4: Arsenal A2:2, 4:1
1/2: Inter A1:3, 1:0

2011:
1/8: Arsenal A1:2, 3:1
1/4: Shakhtar 5:1, A1:0
1/2: Real A2:0, 1:1

2012:
1/8: Leverkusen A3:1, 7:1
1/4: Milan A0:0, 3:1
1/2: Chelsea A0:1, 2:2

2013:
1/8: Milan A0:2, 4:0 70:23
1/4: Psg A2:2, 1:1
1/2: Bayern A0:4, 0:3

2014:
1/8: City A2:0, 2:1
1/4: Atletico 1:1, A0:1

2015:
1/8: City A2:1, 1:0
1/4: Psg A3:1, 2:0
1/2: Bayern 3:0, A2:3

2016:
1/8: Arsenal A2:0, 3:1
1/4: Atletico 2:1, A0:2

2017:
1/8: Psg A0:4, 6:1
1/4: Juve A0:3, 0:0

2018:
1/8: Chelsea A1:1, 3:0
1/4: Roma 4:1, A0:3

2019:
1/8: Lyon A0:0, 5:1
1/4: Man Utd A1:0, 3:0
1/2: Liverpool 3:0, A0:4

Now, I will cherry pick and EXCLUDE Rijkaard from these stats, because imo, that is the only time in the last 30 years when we have actually adopted a mix of Italian tactical/defensive approach mixed with Barca's possession, attacking and Joga Bonita.
Total: 30-7-4 (41 matches), 109:34
Away: 9-13-19, 39:65

Now, I will add Barca (1991-2019) to my table also:
For the end, I'll add also Juve in the last 10 years (since Pep), from 2008-2019:
Juve:
2009:
Chelsea A0:1, 2:2
2013:
Celtic A3:0, 2:0
Bayern A0:2, 0:2
2015: Borussia 2:1, A3:0
Monaco 1:0, A0:0
Real 2:1, A1:1
2016: Bayern 2:2, A2:4
2017: Porto A2:0, 1:0
Barca 3:0, A0:0
Monaco A2:0, 2:1
2018: Tott 2:2, A2:1
Real 0:3, A3:1
2019:
Atletico A0:2, 3:0
Ajax A1:1, 1:2

Home: 8-3-3 (14 matches) 23:16
Away: 6-4-4, 19:13

And here are the final results:
*********************************************************
Percentage of wins at home:
76% Barca (200
73% Barca (1991-)
73% Pep
71% Crujff
67% Bayern (200
64% Real (200
57% Juve (200

Percentage of wins away:
46% Real (200
43% Juve (200
41% Bayern (200
28% Barca (200
23% Pep
22% Barca (1991-)
14% Crujff

Defeats at home:
3% Barca (200
10% Barca (1991-)
12% Pep
14% Crujff
21% Real (200
21% Juve (200
22% Bayern (200

Defeats away:
57% Crujff
46% Barca (1991-)
41% Barca (200
38% Pep
37% Bayern (200
36% Real (200
29% Juve (200

Goals scored per match at home:
3,23 Pep
2,83 Barca (2008)
2,66 Barca (1991)
2,67 Bayern
2,29 Crujff
2,18 Real
1,64 Juve

Goals scored per match away:
1,70 Bayern
1,57 Real
1,36 Juve
1,15 Pep
1,00 Barca (2008)
0,95 Barca (1991)
0,86 Crujff

Goals conceded per match at home:
0,72 Barca (2008)
0,83 Barca (1991)
0,86 Crujff
1,07 Real
1,11 Bayern
1,14 Juve
1,23 Pep

Goals conceded per match away:
1,59 Barca (1991-)
1,57 Crujff
1,52 Barca (2008)
1,35 Pep
1,33 Bayern
1,21 Real
0,93 Juve

Percentage of wins at home vs away:
71:14% Crujff (57 points difference)
73:22% Barca 1991 (51 points difference)
73:23% Pep (50 points difference)
76:28% Barca 2008 (48 points difference)
67:41% Bayern (26 points difference)
64:43% Juve (21 points difference)
64:46% Real (18 points difference)

Goals scored per match at home vs away:
3,23:1,15 Pep (2,08 goals per match difference)
2,83:1,00 Barca 2008 (1,83 goals per match difference)
2,66:0,95 Barca 1991 (1,71 goals per match difference)
2,29:0,86 Crujff (1,43 goals per match difference)
2,67:1,70 Bayern (0,97 goals per match difference)
2,18:1,57 Real (0,61 goals per match difference)
1,64:1,36 Juve (0,28 goals per match difference)

Goals conceded per match away vs home:
1,52:0,72 Barca 2008 (0,80 goals per match difference)
1,59:0,83 Barca 1991 (0,76 goals per match difference)
1,57:0,86 Crujff (0,71 goals per match difference)
1,33:1,11 Bayern (0,22 goals per match difference)
1,21:1,07 Real (0,14 goals per match difference)
1,23:1,35 Pep (0,12 goals per match difference)
0,93:1,14 Juve (+0,21 POSITIVE goal difference)

Even now, with more stats and different eras and clubs, it is obvious:
1. Barca since 1991, Barca since 2008 and Pep=are GOATs of home matches and league matches
2. but BOTH Barca since 1991, Barca since 2008 and Pep=are worse than BOTH Real, Juve and Bayern in every single department regarding AWAY Champions league KO matches:
Less wins, more defeats, more goals conceded, less goals scored, the most likely to get hammered 3:0 etc.

Now my pain during the last 25-ish years of watching Barca in a CL, especially in away matches, makes much more sense.

Get up, (get on up) BBGun gone James Brown! Hah You're like a, like a stats machine! ..stay on the scene

These should be forwarded to Barto, Valv and the whole team. Doubt they're aware of how bad it is. Insane Jekyll and Hyde disparity

Next coach should be Two-Face Or ! one apt enough to juggle easily from Home to Away style. Would make sense. Military has manoeuvre specific training. ie. tactical sims for amphibious force sea landing and shadow rescue and retrieval from urbanized setting _ err let's see... yup aha that's a confirm . Not . The . Same

Bart should've already secured a Master Chief drill instructor after Ernie's comments about phys. conditioning being useless.

Give the whole squad a challenging battery of tasks. No pass, no play. FnS

Instead board tied the knot with Happily Arda AFTER.. AFTER he had said he was tired of running jajaja

 

[El MeSSiaS]

Incredible how clueless this guy is

 

[Lapi]

You're like a, like a stats machine!

Those people obsessed with numbers, related to something that is visual, thus can be also seen, are usually either autistic or they simply substitute their lack of understanding of what they actually see, with something that can be expressed numerically.
They are the ones who can't really enjoy playing a simple computer game, but are always curious about the script running behind, which determines movements and responses.

BBZ is rather a librarian, who has distinct agendas, but the numbers found in his library (often irrelevant or ancient ones), are only taken out for the given agenda.
If football could be simply expressed by numbers and data, it would be similar to the FIFA-PC or console game.

But he also forges data, according to the agenda of his. The simplest illustration of this is in Neymar's thread, where he several times states Neymar being 29 years old, just two months after he actually passed 27. Small difference but quite typical.

 

[BBZ8800]

Those people obsessed with numbers, related to something that is visual, thus can be also seen, are usually either autistic or they simply substitute their lack of understanding of what they actually see, with something that can be expressed numerically.
They are the ones who can't really enjoy playing a simple computer game, but are always curious about the script running behind, which determines movements and responses.

BBZ is rather a librarian, who has distinct agendas, but the numbers found in his library (often irrelevant or ancient ones), are only taken out for the given agenda.
If football could be simply expressed by numbers and data, it would be similar to the FIFA-PC or console game.

But he also forges data, according to the agenda of his. The simplest illustration of this is in Neymar's thread, where he several times states Neymar being 29 years old, just two months after he actually passed 27. Small difference but quite typical.

Autistic? Lol.
Or a lack of understanding for what?
For pushing a head into the sand and pretending that our style is a GOAT style and that we are losing in the same manner for 30 years: because of a bad luck, individual mistakes and because of a random scapegoats?

What about recognizing patterns on places where others don't see them?
Someone will just see 50 results.
Someone will recognize patterns and deeper problems.

Since you are working with psychology, you are aware of those rules.

Out of all mental abilities this type of intelligence is said to have the highest correlation with the general intelligence factor, g. This is primarily because pattern recognition is the ability to see order in a chaotic environment; the primary condition for life.

Patterns can be found in ideas, words, symbols and images and is mostly unlearned and difficult to train.

Pattern recognition is a key determinant of your potential in logical, verbal, numerical and spatial abilities. It is essential for reasoning because your capacity to think logically is based on your perception of the logic around you.

 

[George_Costanza]

Tata 2.0 loading

Lionel Messi likes River Plate manager Marcelo Gallardo. [jugones] https://t.co/DOULDIKACQ

The fuck you compare Gallardo to Tata you ignorant bastard? Gallardo is a coach of one of the biggest teams in South America (Ranked in 20 biggest clubs in the world) and considered the best coach of that club history! Who did Tata coach before becoming a Barca manager?

 

[BBZ8800]

Btw, I have checked Gallardo's stats from River and it seems:
1. that he hasn't won a league title yet in 5 years, right? Ouch.
2. he has won 118 out of 228 matches, which is 52% of wins, which isn't spectacular

Regarding trophies, he won:
1. 2 Champions league titles (Copa Libertadores) 2015 and 2018
2. their Uefa Cup (2014)
3. Argentinian Copa Del Rey 2016 and 2017
4. and bunch of random Supercups:
South American Supercup: 2015, 2016, 2019
Argentinian Supercup: 2017
And (wtf?): a supercup between Japanese cup winner and South American Uefa cup winner

So, 5 seasons at River:
1. zero European experience
2. zero league titles
3. haven't coached any big players till now
4. won 2 Champions leagues and 1 Uefa cup

Basically for now, his pros are:
1. his team plays nice
2. and he won 3 continental cup tournaments
3. Messi and Pep like him