Ernesto Valverde

Riordon

New member
Just need a manager who's a winner. Valverde was and will always be the guy who's got that underdog story with him but he's not going to be a winner. He could be a great manager for any other team in the world thet doesn't aspire to winning the league, CL and the local cup every year. A manager that has "Valencia winners of Copa", "Everton getting 3rd place in the Premier League", "Lyon winning the French cup" in him but not FC Barcelona winning the treble im him.

Lucho is just as much a winner as Klopp but he was embarrassed left and right in his last seasons in the CL away. 4-0 against PSG, our worst performance I can remember, way worse than Liverpool. 3-0 against Juventus. Couple of times shit performances against Atletico.

The problems go way deeper than the coach.

Pep already said in 2012 he looked at some of the players and realised he couldn't motivate them. Same thing now really.
 

i_bleed_blaugrana

Senior Member
[tw]1191407046035460098?s=21[/tw]
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION], has nothing to do with being romantic. This man simply deserves a look for all of the work he has done for our club. This dude has been grinding away at the youth level for the last 15 years. And has produced splendid results over the last 2-3 years. That sort of loyalty needs to be rewarded in some capacity and I think he has earned the right to be in this conversation.

Sure, we might not sweep every trophy with him at the helm but most importantly he’d develop our youth enough to force the seniors to either improve or get out of the way. He return us to our Cruyff roots and he is intimately aware of both how the club was in the past, how it is now and what we need to do to get back to our best. That’s an extremely valuable perspective that shouldn’t be overlooked as “being a romantic.” With either him or Gallardo, the transition to Xavi in 2-3 years would be seemless. We really need to seriously consider him and not just write him off due to a lack of first team experience. The fact that Barça B play 10x better football than the first team does is enough for me to say its worth the gamble.

For me, it’s:

1. Pimienta
2. Gallardo
3. Koeman

Trying to court Ten Haag could damage our relationship with Ajax, and while I love his football, his biggest shortcomings (can’t speak Spanish, hasn’t been involved with our club) are exactly why Koeman is being mentioned.
 

Havesaks

Senior Member
[tw]1191407046035460098?s=21[/tw]
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION],
Trying to court Ten Haag could damage our relationship with Ajax, and while I love his football, his biggest shortcomings (can’t speak Spanish, hasn’t been involved with our club) are exactly why Koeman is being mentioned.

Overmars has just recently said they would be open to let ten Haag go if clubs like Bayern would show interest.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Let's not forget champions leauge is a tournament for mentality, and our mentality has been shit since forever.

Mentality was fine in 2014-15. Beat City away, beat PSG away, scored 2 on Allianz, scored 3 vs Juventus in the final. Even in Lucho's final season, where he deteriorated, we beat PSG 6-1 showing mentality. Valverde never knocked out anyone even close to the level of these teams.
 

Havesaks

Senior Member
Mentality was fine in 2014-15. Beat City away, beat PSG away, scored 2 on Allianz, scored 3 vs Juventus in the final. Even in Lucho's final season, where he deteriorated, we beat PSG 6-1 showing mentality. Valverde never knocked out anyone even close to the level of these teams.

That team was overpowered and frankly speaking we should have won another chl at least. Getting sacked 4-0 in the first place and afterwards losing 3-0 vs Juventus just proves the point.
 

Sailor Mars

Well-known member
Its not just that we win the league. They have to be historical good seasons. 08/09 + 14/15 the treble + arguably the best team ever in 10/11. And in 08/09 it was after a lucky Iniesta 90+ min goal.
The club in general lacks that fighting spirit when it gets really tough.

I just wikipediad this, and out of the 13 time Real Madrid won the EURO/CL, they only finished 1st in the league 3 out of those 13 times.
1956-1957
1957-1958
2016-2017.

That's it.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
We are still top three home town in the world, I would say that we are the best home team. The problem is away. And it was both under Lucho and Valverde. These embarrassing results away from home started a long time before Valverde. Remember the 4-0 PSG trashing? Way worse than Liverpool. And these problems will be there even with the new coach.

It’s a sign of mentally weak players, no winner mentality nothing. You can see that after so many embarrassments they have lost their hunger to fight when away games gets close.

Solution? We need a winner mentality in the club. It’s why our next coach must be great tactically and a great motivator. Basically juego de posicion Klopp.

It’s also something I have noticed with our fan base and club in general. We also need to have a perfect season to win the CL. Real no matter how bad they play are always contenders.

I am saying something similar for years.
Barca was always regarded as one of the best teams in the world.
But even in the seasons when we played the best football, we would usually lost every time in a CL to more tactical Italian or English teams.
I remember one article from early 00s, when one journo said: it is the biggest mystery in a modern football how Fc Barcelona has only 1 CL title, yet they are favorites in majority of seasons.
All of that changed with Messi.
But if we hadn't Messi, who knows how many CL titles we would had today?
1, 2?
3 at max, imo.

For years, I thought that our too attacking approach paired with physically light players is the main reason.
But it seems that something is wrong with mentality of players.
NOT only during Lucho and EV.
What we see today is a similar pattern how Barca was always complacent and without fighting spirit in key CL moments when you needs some fight, blood and leaders.

Today while I was reading some articles about Van Gaal at Barca, I have found one of his interviews from late 90s.
And Van Gaal said that he couldn't implement his ideas at Barca.
At Ajax, players listened and followed him and he was able to win a CL with Dutch players.
At Barca, he implied that players/people are too complacent.
And that a team (even in late 90s), always had an attitude: we are the best.
Even though Van Gaal ironically replied: you are the best, yet you have only 1 CL in 100 years of history, hmm?

Here is a full article about Van Gaal, problems of working in another country and his comments about Barca's complacent mentality:
In the summer of 1997, FC Barcelona began a process of injecting their side with Dutch influence. What followed were trophies, individual excellence, infighting, and disappointment. The success of the Dutch revolution is hard to measure, and the legacy even harder to define.

Barcelona’s venture into Dutch football originally started in 1971 when they appointed Rinus Michels as manager. He was joined in 1973 by Johan Cruyff and in 1974 by Johan Neeskens – both players who had played under Michels as part of Ajax’s great “Total Football” side. The partnership only led to one league title in 1974, but like seemingly everything to do with Barcelona’s success since then, the 1997 revolution is strongly linked.

1997 saw Bobby Robson leave the club as manager having just finished 2nd in La Liga and winning both the Cup Winner’s Cup, and the Copa del Rey. La Liga title hadn’t been in Catalonia for three years now, and so Barca turned to the most highly rated up-and-coming manager in the world – Louis van Gaal.

Louis van Gaal had enjoyed tremendous success with Ajax, implementing his own take and ideas on the Total Football philosophy. While it certainly wasn’t the same (van Gaal was far more rigid and statistical in his approach than the original concept, something that led to criticism of it being creatively stifling by the likes of Cruyff), he had managed to take a remarkably young Ajax side to the top of the European game.

The excitement that Ajax side produced had taken over football, with the biggest clubs in the world looking to poach the youngsters. Barcelona, however, now had the manager. van Gaal immediately began to bring Dutch footballers into the club, beginning with two members of his Champions League winning squad in defenders Michael Reiziger and Winston Bogarde. That summer he also signed compatriot Ruud Hesp from Roda JC, and the goalkeeper quickly made the number 1 shirt his own.

The key signing, however, was Rivaldo – the Brazilian replacing Ronaldo, who left for Internazionale with a world record fee. With Luis Figo as the club’s star man, and Pep Guardiola as captain, van Gaal immediately won La Liga with Barca.

The instant success further inspired Barcelona to build around van Gaal’s vision, and the summer of 1998 saw five more Dutchmen join. Two highly rated players joined from PSV Eindhoven in Phillip Cocu and Boudewijn Zenden, but it was understandably his great Ajax side that van Gaal went back to. The de Boer twins, Frank and Ronald, were signed for a combined €22M, while Patrick Kluivert arrived for €9m, having failed to impress at Milan.

The result was a second La Liga title in two years. Despite the success, van Gaal was somewhat under pressure. He had regularly clashed with the media, and the same criticisms about his style being too stifling were surfacing.

No Dutch players arrived in 1999, although van Gaal did go back to his Ajax side once more – Finnish playmaker Jari Litmanen arriving. In December of that year, van Gaal dropped Rivaldo. It was a highly controversial decision, especially considering that Rivaldo was so good in 1999 that he won the Balon d’Or. Again though, van Gaal’s philosophy was creating enemies, and this time it was the best player at the club.

“Yesterday Rivaldo spoke to me and said he no longer wanted to play on the left. Because of that, he’s been left out of the squad. It was a surprise for me and a surprise for his teammates. It’s a great shame. Barcelona has always had the philosophy that the club comes ahead of everyone – the players, the coach and all the employees.”

Louis van Gaal – December 1999

It was a sign of what was to come. Barcelona had a disappointing season compared to the previous two years, finishing second behind Deportivo La Coruña by five points. Not winning the league created enough pressure that van Gaal quickly resigned from his position on the 20th May 2000. His falling out with the media was summed up with his parting words. “Amigos de la prensa. Yo me voy. Felicidades” he said, or “Friends of the press. I am leaving. Congratulations”.

van Gaal criticised the club and the Spanish culture for things not going as planned. Yes, he had lifted two La Liga titles in three years, but the rise of Barcelona to the top of the world game hadn’t happened. He never fully implemented his philosophy, but then it also didn’t seem wanted by the club, the fans, or the players.

“The president (Josep Lluis Nunez) took me on for my philosophy and personality, and also the gameplan of my Dutch team, Ajax. But to implant this philosophy in a club is very difficult, because this philosophy does not correspond with the culture of the country.

“I had to struggle every day to convince everyone at Barcelona, and especially the players. In this place, in this culture the players always say, ‘we are the best’. No, we are not the best because we have to show it on the field every year.

“What has Barcelona won in 100 years? How many Champions Leagues? In six years at Ajax I won more than Barcelona had won in 100 years”.

Barcelona moved on to Lorenzo Serra Ferrer in 2000, but they did sign one last Dutchman. Luis Figo had joined Real Madrid in a highly controversial transfer, and his replacement was Marc Overmars from Arsenal – another player who had excelled at Ajax under van Gaal.

Two years later, Barcelona rehired Louis van Gaal as manager at the start of the 2002-2003 season. This time there was no Dutch influx, and certainly no such levels of success. His signings all flopped, made worse by the fact that he had released Rivaldo on a free – despite the former Balon d’Or winner having a year left on his contract.

“Van Gaal is the main cause of my departure. I don’t like Van Gaal, and I am sure that he doesn’t like me, either.”

Rivaldo

van Gaal lasted until January, and was sacked with Barcelona just three points above the relegation zone.

His eventual long-term replacement was yet another Dutchman, and yet another member of van Gaal’s Champions League winning Ajax squad – Frank Rijkaard. He would finally give Barcelona their first League title since Van Gaal’s in 1999, winning La Liga in 2005, before going on to win the Champions League the year after.

That Champions League winning team did also include two Dutchmen – Giovanni van Bronckhorst who had arrived in 2003, and Mark van Bommel in 2005 – along with the Dutch manager, but it was far from the project of nearly ten years before.

The core of van Gaal’s side was unmistakably of The Netherlands, bringing his compatriots in at every opportunity. It could arguably be seen as further comment on his beliefs that the Spanish didn’t have the necessary culture to succeed with his methods, instead relying on the players he knew could deliver what he wanted. That side had completely broken apart by the time Rijkaard delivered the big one though. The last remnants, Cocu and Reizinger, left in 2004, and their Spanish medal collections tell a story.

Barcelona failed to win a trophy for six years after van Gaal’s second La Liga title. Yes, he delivered immediate success and boosted the careers of some fine players. The squad he proceeded to build, however, lacked what it took to compete with the rise of Valencia, Deportivo, and, of course, Real Madrid. Whether the project can be called a success is up for debate, and Barcelona rehiring van Gaal two years after he let tells a story in of itself.

What was certainly proven was that Rijkaard’s freedom of expression suited Barcelona far more. It brought them to the top, once again around a Brazilian superstar, and the groundwork that he lay was built upon to extraordinary heights – something that the Dutch revolution of ’97 never was.

Something is "wrong" with Barca's mentality since always.
And Messi and golden years only masked that problem.

Some fans will get angry, but even during Pep:
1. we were blessed with a best generation ever (Xavi, Iniesta)
2. we had Messi
3. and in that time, our biggest enemy: tactical/physical opponents (Italian teams) were dead due to bankrupcy in Italy, Milan being horrible and Juve demoted to a 2nd division

Again, imo: Pep's era was more of an anomaly than a regular Barca.
And what we see lately is just a good old, complacent Barca who always loses in 100s of comical ways.
 
Last edited:

KingLeo10

Senior Member
I am saying something similar for years.
Barca was always regarded as one of the best teams in the world.
But even in the seasons when we played the best football, we would usually lost every time in a CL to more tactical Italian or English teams.
I remember one article from early 00s, when one journo said: it is the biggest mystery in a modern football how Fc Barcelona has only 1 CL title, yet they are favorites in majority of seasons.
All of that changed with Messi.
But if we hadn't Messi, who knows how many CL titles we would had today?
1, 2?
3 at max, imo.

For years, I thought that our too attacking approach paired with physically light players is the main reason.
But it seems that something is wrong with mentality of players.
NOT only during Lucho and EV.
What we see today is a similar pattern how Barca was always complacent and without fighting spirit in key CL moments when you needs some fight, blood and leaders.

Today while I was reading some articles about Van Gaal at Barca, I have found one of his interviews from late 90s.
And Van Gaal said that he couldn't implement his ideas at Barca.
At Ajax, players listened and followed him and he was able to win a CL with Dutch players.
At Barca, he implied that players/people are too complacent.
And that a team (even in late 90s), always had an attitude: we are the best.
Even though Van Gaal ironically replied: you are the best, yet you have only 1 CL in 100 years of history, hmm?

Here is a full article about Van Gaal, problems of working in another country and his comments about Barca's complacent mentality:


Something is "wrong" with Barca's mentality since always.
And Messi and golden years only masked that problem.

Some fans will get angry, but even during Pep:
1. we were blessed with a best generation ever (Xavi, Iniesta)
2. we had Messi
3. and in that time, our biggest enemy: tactical/physical opponents (Italian teams) were dead due to bankrupcy in Italy, Milan being horrible and Juve demoted to a 2nd division

Again, imo: Pep's era was more of an anomaly than a regular Barca.
And what we see lately is just a good old, complacent Barca who always loses in 100s of comical ways.

yeah those great english and italian teams with...

inter 3 CLs

Juve 2 CLs

Man United 3 CLs

Chelsea 1 CL

Arsenal 0 CL

Pool 6 CL

Milan 7 CL

Only Pool has had our number in Europe out of those. We have a winning record against every other team. Including all the Italian teams (Yes, Milan too) and ESPECIALLY Man United.

When you have to fabricate 1 CL in 100 years nonsense SOLELY FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT despite the CL having only started from 1960s and in its modern format from 1990s..you know you are a con artist.

Your narrative of Barca being some underachieving losers in CL is fabricated.

The fact is we're tied with Bayern Munich and way ahead of Inter, Man United, and Juve in CL achievements. Until last season in which your dear Ernesto fucked up, Liverpool were level with us. We would have been runaway 3rd if not for that. This is hardly bad considering that until 1990s you had to WIN THE LEAGUE to even be part of this competition. Which was always easy for Juve and Bayern but not so much for us...because of Real Madrid.

Take your fabrications and cuck narratives elsewhere.
 

Topolino

Gemusesuppe
Lucho is just as much a winner as Klopp but he was embarrassed left and right in his last seasons in the CL away. 4-0 against PSG, our worst performance I can remember, way worse than Liverpool. 3-0 against Juventus. Couple of times shit performances against Atletico.

The problems go way deeper than the coach.

Pep already said in 2012 he looked at some of the players and realised he couldn't motivate them. Same thing now really.

Ofcourse it is. The thing is we have 2 options really, a manager that can actually motivate players like Klopp can and a manager who really is a winner. I MEAN Pep at first wasn't imo that much of a winner but he had a succesful philosophy and that's what we need. There are players who need to be cut or motivated to the highest of their levels. Including Leo. The players can't be feeling a scent of comfor for the manager, yes Leo is a one in a lifetime talent but the team can imo be built around him. It needs to be a TEAM. Nothing else. We need a winner as a mamager who can bring the best out of individuals as well as them working as a team. Imo that could and I rephrase again COULD be Gallardo.
 

BBZ8800

Senior Member
A time for cherrypicking stats regarding Barca's mentality in KO matches, especially in away KO matches.

All CL KO matches since 1999/2000 (the last 20 years):
2000:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

2002:
1/4: Panathinaikos A0:1, 3:1
1/2: Real 0:2, A1:1

2003:
1/4: Juve A1:1, 1:2

2005:
1/8: Chelsea 2:1, A2:4

2006:
1/8: Chelsea A2:1, 1:1
1/4: Benfica A0:0, 2:0
1/2: Milan A1:0, 0:0

2007:
1/8: Liverpool 1:2, A1:0

2008:
1/8: Celtic A3:2, 1:0
1/4: Schalke A1:0, 1:0
1/2: Man Utd 0:0, A0:1

2009:
1/8: Lyon A1:1, 5:2
1/4: Bayern 4:0, A1:1
1/2: Chelsea 0:0, A1:1

2010:
1/8: Stuttgart A1:1, 4:0
1/4: Arsenal A2:2, 4:1
1/2: Inter A1:3, 1:0

2011:
1/8: Arsenal A1:2, 3:1
1/4: Shakhtar 5:1, A1:0
1/2: Real A2:0, 1:1

2012:
1/8: Leverkusen A3:1, 7:1
1/4: Milan A0:0, 3:1
1/2: Chelsea A0:1, 2:2

2013:
1/8: Milan A0:2, 4:0
1/4: Psg A2:2, 1:1
1/2: Bayern A0:4, 0:3

2014:
1/8: City A2:0, 2:1
1/4: Atletico 1:1, A0:1

2015:
1/8: City A2:1, 1:0
1/4: Psg A3:1, 2:0
1/2: Bayern 3:0, A2:3

2016:
1/8: Arsenal A2:0, 3:1
1/4: Atletico 2:1, A0:2

2017:
1/8: Psg A0:4, 6:1
1/4: Juve A0:3, 0:0

2018:
1/8: Chelsea A1:1, 3:0
1/4: Roma 4:1, A0:3

2019:
1/8: Lyon A0:0, 5:1
1/4: Man Utd A1:0, 3:0
1/2: Liverpool 3:0, A0:4

I will cherrypick stats now.
"Regular Barca" when we played "Barca's way" was every Barca from 1999-2019.
Imo, the more defensive and cautious Barca was Rijkaard's Barca (he played as a mix of Barca-Milan-Ajax).

Now, from 1999 to 2019, last 20 years, WITHOUT Rijkaard's Barca, our regular Barca played 34 away matches in KO stages of a Champions league.
We have 8 wins, 11 draws, 15 defeats.

8 wins:
2011 Shakhtar 1:0
2011 Real 2:0
2012 Leverkusen 3:1
2014 City 2:0
2015 City 2:1
2015 Psg 3:1
2016 Arsenal 2:0
2019 Man Utd 1:0

11 draws:
2002 Real 1:1
2003 Juve 1:1
2009 Lyon 1:1
2009 Bayern 1:1
2009 Chelsea 1:1
2010 Stuttgart 1:1
2010 Arsenal 2:2
2012 Milan 0:0
2013 Psg 2:2
2018 Chelsea 1:1
2019 Lyon 0:0

15 defeats:
2000 Chelsea 3:0
2000 Valencia 4:1
2002 Panathinaikos 1:0
2010 Inter 3:1
2011 Arsenal 2:1
2012 Chelsea 1:0
2013 Milan 2:0
2013 Bayern 4:0
2014 Atletico 1:0
2015 Bayern 3:2
2016 Atletico 2:0
2017 Psg 4:0
2017 Juve 3:0
2018 Roma 3:0
2019 Liverpool 4:0

Goals ratio:
scored 32:54 lol over 35 matches.
We have -22 negative goals ratio.

In the same time, those "regular Barca teams" had at HOME:
35 matches:

Wins:
2000 Chelsea 5:1
2000 Valencia 2:1
2002 Panathinaikos 3:1
2009 Lyon 5:2
2009 Bayern 4:0
2010 Stuttgart 4:0
2010 Arsenal 4:1
2010 Inter 1:0
2011 Arsenal 3:1
2011 Shakhtar 5:1
2012 Leverkusen 7:1
2012 Milan 3:1
2013 Milan 4:0
2014 City 2:1
2015 City 1:0
2015 Psg 2:0
2015 Bayern 3:0
2016 Arsenal 3:1
2016 Atletico 2:1
2017 Psg 6:1
2018 Chelsea 3:0
2018 Roma 4:1
2019 Lyon 5:1
2019 Man Utd 3:0
2019 Liverpool 3:0

Draws:
2009 Chelsea 0:0
2011 Real 1:1
2012 Chelsea 2:2
2013 Psg 1:1
2014 Atletico 1:1
2017 Juve 0:0

Defeats:
2002 Real 0:2
2003 Juve 1:2
2013 Bayern 0:3

TOTAL:
Home/away: 25 wins:8 wins (35 matches in total)
Defeats: 3 in 35 matches, vs 15 in 35 away matches

Goals scored: 93 at home:32 away (35 matches)
Goals conceded: 28 home vs 54 away
Goals scored per match: 2,66 at home: 0,91 away
Goals conceded per match: 0,80 at home: 1,54 away

Percentage of wins: 71% at home, 23% away
Percentage of defeats: 9% at home, 43% away

Barca to score a goal: 89% matches at home, 63% away
Barca to concede a goal: 63% home matches, 80% matches
Barca to concede 2 or more goals: on 14% of home matches, on 40% of away matches
Barca to concede 3 or more goals: on 3% of home matches, on 26% of away matches
Barca to score 2 or more goals: on 69% of home matches, on 26% of away matches
Barca to score 3 or more goals: on 54% of home matches, on 6% of away matches
Barca to score 4 or more goals: on 31% of home matches, on 0% of away matches

Also, another interesting stat:
From the last 5 KO Champions league ties when Barca had to play a 2nd KO match away from home:
= we lost all 5 matches
= and we were KOd in 4 out of 5 times.
So, basically, if we play the 2nd match away from home=we are more or less dead.

2014: Atletico 1:1, 0:1 KOd
2015: Bayern 3:0, 2:3, survived
2016: Atletico 2:1, 0:2 KOd
2018: Roma 4:1, 0:3 KOd
2019: Liverpool 3:0, 0:4 KOd
 

KingLeo10

Senior Member
A time for cherrypicking stats regarding Barca's mentality in KO matches, especially in away KO matches.

All CL KO matches since 1999/2000 (the last 20 years):
2000:
1/4: Chelsea A1:3, 5:1
1/2: Valencia A1:4, 2:1

2002:
1/4: Panathinaikos A0:1, 3:1
1/2: Real 0:2, A1:1

2003:
1/4: Juve A1:1, 1:2

2005:
1/8: Chelsea 2:1, A2:4

2006:
1/8: Chelsea A2:1, 1:1
1/4: Benfica A0:0, 2:0
1/2: Milan A1:0, 0:0

2007:
1/8: Liverpool 1:2, A1:0

2008:
1/8: Celtic A3:2, 1:0
1/4: Schalke A1:0, 1:0
1/2: Man Utd 0:0, A0:1

2009:
1/8: Lyon A1:1, 5:2
1/4: Bayern 4:0, A1:1
1/2: Chelsea 0:0, A1:1

2010:
1/8: Stuttgart A1:1, 4:0
1/4: Arsenal A2:2, 4:1
1/2: Inter A1:3, 1:0

2011:
1/8: Arsenal A1:2, 3:1
1/4: Shakhtar 5:1, A1:0
1/2: Real A2:0, 1:1

2012:
1/8: Leverkusen A3:1, 7:1
1/4: Milan A0:0, 3:1
1/2: Chelsea A0:1, 2:2

2013:
1/8: Milan A0:2, 4:0
1/4: Psg A2:2, 1:1
1/2: Bayern A0:4, 0:3

2014:
1/8: City A2:0, 2:1
1/4: Atletico 1:1, A0:1

2015:
1/8: City A2:1, 1:0
1/4: Psg A3:1, 2:0
1/2: Bayern 3:0, A2:3

2016:
1/8: Arsenal A2:0, 3:1
1/4: Atletico 2:1, A0:2

2017:
1/8: Psg A0:4, 6:1
1/4: Juve A0:3, 0:0

2018:
1/8: Chelsea A1:1, 3:0
1/4: Roma 4:1, A0:3

2019:
1/8: Lyon A0:0, 5:1
1/4: Man Utd A1:0, 3:0
1/2: Liverpool 3:0, A0:4

I will cherrypick stats now.
"Regular Barca" when we played "Barca's way" was every Barca from 1999-2019.
Imo, the more defensive and cautious Barca was Rijkaard's Barca (he played as a mix of Barca-Milan-Ajax).

Now, from 1999 to 2019, last 20 years, WITHOUT Rijkaard's Barca, our regular Barca played 34 away matches in KO stages of a Champions league.
We have 8 wins, 11 draws, 15 defeats.

8 wins:
2011 Shakhtar 1:0
2011 Real 2:0
2012 Leverkusen 3:1
2014 City 2:0
2015 City 2:1
2015 Psg 3:1
2016 Arsenal 2:0
2019 Man Utd 1:0

11 draws:
2002 Real 1:1
2003 Juve 1:1
2009 Lyon 1:1
2009 Bayern 1:1
2009 Chelsea 1:1
2010 Stuttgart 1:1
2010 Arsenal 2:2
2012 Milan 0:0
2013 Psg 2:2
2018 Chelsea 1:1
2019 Lyon 0:0

15 defeats:
2000 Chelsea 3:0
2000 Valencia 4:1
2002 Panathinaikos 1:0
2010 Inter 3:1
2011 Arsenal 2:1
2012 Chelsea 1:0
2013 Milan 2:0
2013 Bayern 4:0
2014 Atletico 1:0
2015 Bayern 3:2
2016 Atletico 2:0
2017 Psg 4:0
2017 Juve 3:0
2018 Roma 3:0
2019 Liverpool 4:0

Goals ratio:
scored 32:54 lol over 35 matches.
We have -22 negative goals ratio.

In the same time, those "regular Barca teams" had at HOME:
35 matches:

Wins:
2000 Chelsea 5:1
2000 Valencia 2:1
2002 Panathinaikos 3:1
2009 Lyon 5:2
2009 Bayern 4:0
2010 Stuttgart 4:0
2010 Arsenal 4:1
2010 Inter 1:0
2011 Arsenal 3:1
2011 Shakhtar 5:1
2012 Leverkusen 7:1
2012 Milan 3:1
2013 Milan 4:0
2014 City 2:1
2015 City 1:0
2015 Psg 2:0
2015 Bayern 3:0
2016 Arsenal 3:1
2016 Atletico 2:1
2017 Psg 6:1
2018 Chelsea 3:0
2018 Roma 4:1
2019 Lyon 5:1
2019 Man Utd 3:0
2019 Liverpool 3:0

Draws:
2009 Chelsea 0:0
2011 Real 1:1
2012 Chelsea 2:2
2013 Psg 1:1
2014 Atletico 1:1
2017 Juve 0:0

Defeats:
2002 Real 0:2
2003 Juve 1:2
2013 Bayern 0:3

TOTAL:
Home/away: 25 wins:8 wins (35 matches in total)
Defeats: 3 in 35 matches, vs 15 in 35 away matches

Goals scored: 93 at home:32 away (35 matches)
Goals conceded: 28 home vs 54 away
Goals scored per match: 2,66 at home: 0,91 away
Goals conceded per match: 0,80 at home: 1,54 away

Percentage of wins: 71% at home, 23% away
Percentage of defeats: 9% at home, 43% away

Barca to score a goal: 89% matches at home, 63% away
Barca to concede a goal: 63% home matches, 80% matches
Barca to concede 2 or more goals: on 14% of home matches, on 40% of away matches
Barca to concede 3 or more goals: on 3% of home matches, on 26% of away matches
Barca to score 2 or more goals: on 69% of home matches, on 26% of away matches
Barca to score 3 or more goals: on 54% of home matches, on 6% of away matches
Barca to score 4 or more goals: on 31% of home matches, on 0% of away matches

Also, another interesting stat:
From the last 5 KO Champions league ties when Barca had to play a 2nd KO match away from home:
= we lost all 5 matches
= and we were KOd in 4 out of 5 times.
So, basically, if we play the 2nd match away from home=we are more or less dead.

2014: Atletico 1:1, 0:1 KOd
2015: Bayern 3:0, 2:3, survived
2016: Atletico 2:1, 0:2 KOd
2018: Roma 4:1, 0:3 KOd
2019: Liverpool 3:0, 0:4 KOd

glad you shifted the narrative to home v away CL performance now.

Anyone with two eyes could have told you we're exponentially better at home than away regardless of manager.

You didn't need to vomit those 'statistics' to make this point. But since you have a fetish for crunching numbers, could you run these numbers for Liverpool and Bayern Munich for the same time period. Or Man United. Or Juve. We need a reference point, don't we?
 

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