Ernesto Valverde

V

vegitot

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
[MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION]

I see the point you're trying to make but IMO, separate instances of coaching success/failure do give an idea into the ability of a manager across a multitude of conditions. Otherwise, all we know about the ability of a manager is purely and almost entirely circumstantial.

Your example of Pep kind of buttresses my point. When he left Barcelona in 2012, he had an almost divine standing in the game. But after repeated CL failures at Bayern/City (some his fault, some not), we now put him in the same class as a Klopp for example, and not head and shoulders the best (which he was considered in 2012).

If EV wins a treble/CL with AM, it would actually show that he was carrying the hell out of Barca 17-19. If he fails to win any major trophies with AM (which I think much more likely), it's another piece of evidence that he's just not the manager to put a team over the top.
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It's not easy to win thing with AM. Even Cholo wins just 2 Liga so far (1 Copa del rey and 1 Europa). There are two UCL finals as well.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
soul24rage said:
Think he would do well at ATM
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Depends if his objectives will be very close to likes of Sevilla, or very close to likes of Real Madrid. I also think he'd do well, but none of the very high performances of Simeone: which is CL finals, league wins etc.

But I can easily see him keeping AM as a top 3 team. The thing is Simeone often overachieved with them. That is gonna be hard. I think in 8 years since AM is a top competitor, this is the only season where Simeone is underperforming relative to his squad quality. That says a a lot.

The commentator in Barca - AM said Simeone never finished lower than 3rd with AM since the first season as AM manager, 2011-12. That is some consistency and pretty impressive for a team who is certainly not of Barca or Madrid caliber.

Not to forget Simeone also got Messi and/or Ronaldo Madrid as domestic rivals for the vast majority of the last 8 years. These versions are a joke in comparison.
 
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khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
KingLeo10 said:
[MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION]

I see the point you're trying to make but IMO, separate instances of coaching success/failure do give an idea into the ability of a manager across a multitude of conditions. Otherwise, all we know about the ability of a manager is purely and almost entirely circumstantial.

Your example of Pep kind of buttresses my point. When he left Barcelona in 2012, he had an almost divine standing in the game. But after repeated CL failures at Bayern/City (some his fault, some not), we now put him in the same class as a Klopp for example, and not head and shoulders the best (which he was considered in 2012).

If EV wins a treble/CL with AM, it would actually show that he was carrying the hell out of Barca 17-19. If he fails to win any major trophies with AM (which I think much more likely), it's another piece of evidence that he's just not the manager to put a team over the top.
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There are fair points in that, but I feel it ignores the timeline.
When did Pep and Klopp became same tier?
Do we think now that Klopp was equally good to Pep between 2008-2011? or through the body of their overall career are equal? or they are equal currently?
For me I won't put anyone at same tier as Pep during those 3 years, not even Mourinho. No matter what any coach has done after, no matter what Pep has done after.
So for EV, his overall body of work can change, but it doesn't change what he has achieved here.
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Pep is no1 for sure. Pep and Klopp are 1 and 2 for me. Clearly.

Pep is greater even in CL, which is often used against him, with 2 titles 1 final and many more semis I think.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
EV is a good manager. But I doubt he'll get AM big titles and get within minutes of a CL title.

That would make him a great manager, and I have seen nothing so far to suggest he is one.

But I do want to see him managing again. You can't judge a manager based on Amigo Barca. You can't be yourself when the players have more decisional power than you have.
 
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Rassvet

Rassvet

Well-known member
Tuchel when asked if Lukaku's poor performance was down to the change in system: "No, no, no, it's not about the system. IT IS WHAT IT IS. It's not about the change in system for him because it is the same attacking structure."

Stunning. EV inspired a whole generation of coaches.
 
M

Morten

Senior Member
Rassvet said:
Tuchel when asked if Lukaku's poor performance was down to the change in system: "No, no, no, it's not about the system. IT IS WHAT IT IS. It's not about the change in system for him because it is the same attacking structure."

Stunning. EV inspired a whole generation of coaches.
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Stunning!
 
Fati_Future_BallonDor

Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
Rassvet said:
Tuchel when asked if Lukaku's poor performance was down to the change in system: "No, no, no, it's not about the system. IT IS WHAT IT IS. It's not about the change in system for him because it is the same attacking structure."

Stunning. EV inspired a whole generation of coaches.
Click to expand...

This would explain why Liverpool suddenly started to win big titles with Klopp.
 
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