Ernesto Valverde
- Thread starter Messigician
- Start date
JamDav1982
Senior Member
The 'Messi carrying Valverde' idea falls flat when realise the only 2 league titles Messi won in his last 5 years at Barca were EVs full seasons and top when he left.
Reality is EV did a good job at a time when no coach was going to be able to come in and start afresh or have any great power over buying and selling players. He realised that and gave up on some principles to manage the amigos and board in about only way could.
Reality is EV did a good job at a time when no coach was going to be able to come in and start afresh or have any great power over buying and selling players. He realised that and gave up on some principles to manage the amigos and board in about only way could.
Messi983
Senior Member
Athletic since 2010-11
without EV
10-11: 58 points, 6th
11-12: 49 points, 10th
12-13: 45 points, 12th
17-18: 43 points, 16th
18-19: 53 points, 8th
19-20: 51 points, 11th
20-21: 46 points, 10th
21-22: 55 points, 8th
average points/season: 50, average position: 10th
with EV
13-14; 70 points, 4th
14-15: 55 points, 7th
15-16: 62 points, 6th (also won Supercopa which was their first trophy in 31 years)
16-17: 63 points, 7th
22-23; 51 points, 8th
average points/season: 60, average position: 6th
And this season they are on pace for 74 points and compete for a top 5 spot which could bring them to CL in a new format.
So while without mister they are usually a solid midtable team he's the one who make a step forward. In all but one season (last year) under EV they've qualified for Europe. Without him they've only managed to do that once (2010-11) in 8 years through the league finish. They've also qualified for UEFA Cup the following season after being runners up in Copa.
without EV
10-11: 58 points, 6th
11-12: 49 points, 10th
12-13: 45 points, 12th
17-18: 43 points, 16th
18-19: 53 points, 8th
19-20: 51 points, 11th
20-21: 46 points, 10th
21-22: 55 points, 8th
average points/season: 50, average position: 10th
with EV
13-14; 70 points, 4th
14-15: 55 points, 7th
15-16: 62 points, 6th (also won Supercopa which was their first trophy in 31 years)
16-17: 63 points, 7th
22-23; 51 points, 8th
average points/season: 60, average position: 6th
And this season they are on pace for 74 points and compete for a top 5 spot which could bring them to CL in a new format.
So while without mister they are usually a solid midtable team he's the one who make a step forward. In all but one season (last year) under EV they've qualified for Europe. Without him they've only managed to do that once (2010-11) in 8 years through the league finish. They've also qualified for UEFA Cup the following season after being runners up in Copa.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
You have to consider Soul dude the team from 14/15 and 15/16 was probably 3 times better than the teams from 17/18 and 18/19, you had peak Messi, peak Suarez, peak Neymar, peak Iniesta and peak Alves, peak Rakitic in that 2015 team while the 2018 had a half-finished Suarez, a half-finished Rakitic, no Alves, no Neymar and a finished Iniesta in 1st EV season + a lot worse Messi even though he was still worldclass..... and if the points look no different, it proves the coach's ability to deliver over-performances.
soul24rage
Senior Member
It is true that 14/15 and 15/16 Barca team is better, but la liga as a whole of our competitors of 14/15 and 15/16 was better too.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
But is the difference between 2015 and 2019 in terms of strenght of la liga as big as the difference between 2015-Barca and 2018-Barca?
Real Madrid was stronger but dont forget Soul dude 2018 you had also peak Zidane Real while in 15/16 you had for half of the season Benitez Real....
I like you Soul dude but its impossible for you to win the EV battle !
soul24rage
Senior Member
In the 14/15 season, we also had a bit of difficulty in the first half of the season with RM having an incredible start to their season and Barca was still trying to incorporate the new signings like Bravo, MATS, Rakitic and had to wait for Suarez from his ban and also took time of how to incorporate MSN. Not to mention the incident of Anoeta. It's not as bad as that of Benitez's but it wasn't all sunshine and roses.But is the difference between 2015 and 2019 in terms of strenght of la liga as big as the difference between 2015-Barca and 2018-Barca?
Real Madrid was stronger but dont forget Soul dude 2018 you had also peak Zidane Real while in 15/16 you had for half of the season Benitez Real....
I like you Soul dude but its impossible for you to win the EV battle !
EV is a nice guy from what I've seen and a good coach who I think relied on the individual brilliance of Messi and MATs.
Agree to disagree.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Marshall D Teach
Well-known member
I've gained more respect for this guy lately.
That team were a bunch of mental midgets and bottlers and had been since 2013. Nothing any coach could have done. Except the GOAT Lucho.
3-0 Roma and 4-0 Anfield were simply in that team's DNA. Unfortunately we were in denial about that fact.
That team were a bunch of mental midgets and bottlers and had been since 2013. Nothing any coach could have done. Except the GOAT Lucho.
3-0 Roma and 4-0 Anfield were simply in that team's DNA. Unfortunately we were in denial about that fact.
Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Pep > EV > Lucho
Lets be honest dude, Lucho had one of the greatest teams ever but only won 1 cl. At Spain he has been pretty average and we will see how he will perform at PSG.
soul24rage
Senior Member
Lucho helped create the team by helping phase out Xavi for Rakitic and doing well to alternate Bravo and MATs.
I would not say that Lucho's time in Spain was average as he reached the Euro 2020 semi final just losing to the eventual champions by penalty shootouts and exceeded expectations. He didn't do well in the WC22 by his standard by losing the penalty shootouts to Morocco but Morocco is not a team to be underestimated as they beat an amazing Portugal team in the QF.
KingLeo10
Senior Member
"Only won a CL"
Lucho helmed the most dominant season (14/15) in European football history. MSN were the main reason but Lucho was still the manager helming the team.
Treble (maximum possible)
50 W in 60 G (all-time record)
175 goals scored, only 37 goals conceded (all time record)
Beat prime RM and AM in league (a league that consisted of strong Sevilla, Valencia too)
Won 12 out of 14 big games that season (1 RM, 1 Bayern, 1 Juve, 2 City, 3 PSG, 4 AM)
Lucho helmed the most dominant season (14/15) in European football history. MSN were the main reason but Lucho was still the manager helming the team.
Treble (maximum possible)
50 W in 60 G (all-time record)
175 goals scored, only 37 goals conceded (all time record)
Beat prime RM and AM in league (a league that consisted of strong Sevilla, Valencia too)
Won 12 out of 14 big games that season (1 RM, 1 Bayern, 1 Juve, 2 City, 3 PSG, 4 AM)
On paper, perhaps, it wasn't actually the most dominant team of all time, Barca 10/11 is a step above, Barca 14/15 played, what you can say, a more ordinary brand of football.
14/15 Barca was, in my opinion, more at the level of Bayern 12/13 and RM 16/17 than it was to Pep's Barca, but statistics says they were the best, i guess.
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