EURO 2016 Qualifying

[Flavia]

That's funny because the way Barça are playing now is closer to tiki-taka than anything that Spain has shown over the last few months or even years. The way I see it Del Bosque is not clinging to past glory at all, what his team is showing is not tiki-taka and to be frank I don't even think that Del Bosque has any idea how tiki-taka really works or he wouldn't field players like Diego Costa just because he scores a lot for Chelsea. For me, saying Xavi is the reason Spain have declined is just taking 2 random parallels and saying they have a causal link when they actually don't, because it's easier saying things like these than trying to look for the real problem.

This team was basically shaped by Aragonés and Pep and it's no coincidence that they spiraled down after Pep left Barça. Del Bosque doesn't understand tiki-taka in the slightest, he doesn't seem to be tactically adept, so he doesn't see the problem of this team and if you don't know the problem then you can't fix it. That involves tactics as well as personal choices; and he's not able to motivate the players anymore either. He is just not the right man for the job anymore.

Vdb is clinging to past glory, as he is clinging to names, and refuses to change. And the current Barça is not playing tiki taka. Pep also claims his Barça didn't play it, and he hates that name, so it's hard to argue what it was.
But refusing to acknowledge Xavi's huge impact on both Barça and spain seems strange to me. It's not 2 random parallels at all.

 

[CuleLife4Life]

Xavi is definitely a GOAT in Spain's history but Spain shouldn't stand still because he no longer plays. They have such an abundance of youth and talent. VDB is the only one who doesn't seem to realize it and refuses to evolve playing style. Its time he steps down.

 

[Alarcón]

Vdb is clinging to past glory, as he is clinging to names, and refuses to change. And the current Barça is not playing tiki taka. Pep also claims his Barça didn't play it, and he hates that name, so it's hard to argue what it was.
But refusing to acknowledge Xavi's huge impact on both Barça and spain seems strange to me. It's not 2 random parallels at all.

I don't refuse to acknowledge Xavi's impact on the 2 teams but that's something different from saying that the whole system depends on him. Pep only says Barça didn't play tiki-taka because he doesn't like the name. Call Barça's current playing style what you want, either way it is much closer to tiki-taka than how Spain are currently playing and I find it strange that people nowadays seem to refer to everything in football that's related to Spain or Barça and that doesn't work as "tiki-taka". If you look at previous matches like the one Ursegor just posted then you see what tiki-taka is and saying that what Spain are doing atm has anything to do with this is an insult to how these teams used to play a few years ago. I agree that Del Bosque doesn't field the right players but not with the notion that he wants or tries to make his team play like they used to because I don't think that he knows how to actually do that.

 

[Barcaman]

Unmotivated core players are the problem, not del Bosque. And just like Barca, Spain have become victims of their success.
Koke showed little too, I agree, but his stock is rising. Give Paco a start and bench either Busquets or Iniesta (or both). They've become too comfortable lately.

 

[Sumlit]

Well IMHO Tiki-taka or Pep's system, however you want to call it, hasn't been played by a team for a while now. Possibly the last vestiges of it disappeared once poor Tito got sick and had to leave for NY for treatment. But even then, it was probably on the decline.
The passing speed, the combination play, the fast swarming pressing and quick strike football is something that hasn't been regained with any manner of consistency. You see some shadows of it for moments here and there, but not consistent nor sustainable.

Neither Barca now nor Spain for quite a while have played anywhere near as close to that level or in the same manner.

What we saw from Spain today could not be further from that style. About the only similarity they share is that both are possession base. That's about it.

 

[Flavia]

I don't refuse to acknowledge Xavi's impact on the 2 teams but that's something different from saying that the whole system depends on him. Pep only says Barça didn't play tiki-taka because he doesn't like the name. Call Barça's current playing style what you want, either way it is much closer to tiki-taka than how Spain are currently playing and I find it strange that people nowadays seem to refer to everything in football that's related to Spain or Barça and that doesn't work as "tiki-taka". If you look at previous matches like the one Ursegor just posted then you see what tiki-taka is and saying that what Spain are doing atm has anything to do with this is an insult to how these teams used to play a few years ago. I agree that Del Bosque doesn't field the right players but not with the notion that he wants or tries to make his team play like they used to because I don't think that he knows how to actually do that.

I'm not saying spain is playing tiki taka, but it looks like vdb wants to play like that again. But they haven't played that in a while, even when Xavi was still there. But he still insists in the same setup, refuses change, and it can't be because he is unable to do it. He is an experienced coached, so I think he believes he can replicate that.

Vdb has a lot of players to play different styles, he should at least try it. But he is insisting in slow, meaningless possession, with no directness, when he has players so suited to play direct football.

 

[barcanuck]

It all went downhill with Xavi and Iniesta declining which made Busi look real good. Now Busi looks average, Iniesta so on and off while Cesc tries to be a #9 and #10 at the same time.

They need to dump guys like Silva and Pedro already and go with Alcacer, Thiago (when healthy), etc.

 

[instinct]

^why dump Silva lol?

 

[Alarcón]

I'm not saying spain is playing tiki taka, but it looks like vdb wants to play like that again. But they haven't played that in a while, even when Xavi was still there. But he still insists in the same setup, refuses change, and it can't be because he is unable to do it. He is an experienced coached, so I think he believes he can replicate that.

Vdb has a lot of players to play different styles, he should at least try it. But he is insisting in slow, meaningless possession, with no directness, when he has players so suited to play direct football.

Yes VDB is experienced but football changes rapidly so experience doesn't count for very much nowadays. If he is so stubborn as to play Iker when he has 3 or 4 better keepers at his disposal, or to play Diego Costa who obviously doesn't suit the style, then that tells me that the man is not doing his job right. If he really wanted to play like Spain used to then he wouldn't field players totally unsuited to that style, unless he doesn't know how to actually return to it, which would be even worse. Either way, you can't blame the system for the coach's failures.

 

[Hamzah]

^why dump Silva lol?

He was trash. Iniesta is also off form for the NT.

 

[SeloBarca]

Vdb is clinging to past glory, as he is clinging to names, and refuses to change. And the current Barça is not playing tiki taka. Pep also claims his Barça didn't play it, and he hates that name, so it's hard to argue what it was.
But refusing to acknowledge Xavi's huge impact on both Barça and spain seems strange to me. It's not 2 random parallels at all.

He is irreplaceable. It's showing for a while now. His decline coincided with Barça's and spain's. Xavi is one of the greatest ever, might be arguibly the best midfielder ever. There's no one able to replicate what he did. Not cesc, not thiago, not koke. Changes are needed. Lucho is trying for Barça, but Vdb is still clinging to past glory.

Totally agree. Xavi together with Iniesta was even more important then Messi in making tikitaka work. Now when both of them have declined tikitaka has lost its speed and directness. The style has always been about moving of the ball creating triangles in a fast pace.
Now when the players are older and slower, it doesnt really work anymore, something that can be seen in todays Barcelona. Its not Tikitaka anymore.
Ive said it before, to get back there again, the team really has to start working for eachother again, moving of the ball, theres nothing harder to defend against then triangle play. Theres way to much walking around.

The only player that is even remotly close to Xavis playstyle is Gündogan, but noone knows where hes going right now.

 

[Semi-Neutral]

So how would you guys play in terms of tactics? More direct, crosses, counters, what?

 

[Ursegor]

First of all I would question why Iniesta is playing LM/LW. To accomodate the Busquets-Alonso double pivot while also keeping Xavi in the center I totally understand. That's good reason to move Iniesta wide. To accomodate Cesc and Koke I don't. Both Koke and Cesc play for the top 2 anti possession clubs in the world. In Koke's case not even in central midfield. As a result they don't move the ball fast enough and generally can't dictate play properly. They play alibi passes for the sake of passing. Iniesta's and Koke's positions must be reversed. Koke is playing wide for Atletico anyway. He is comfortable there and his energy, crosses and pressing from the front + being closer to Costa is much more useful than playing deep alongside Busquets.

Cesc needs to see the bench and make way for the traitor Alcuntara. In terms of ball circulation and midfield play this already fixes a lot. Busquets-'Cuntara-Iniesta >>>>> Busquets-Koke-Cesc.

Once this is done Costa needs to see the bench and make way for Paco. I don't know what is smoking lately. Building a team to Costa's strengths? This isn't van Basten, fss. His technique is shat and except running the channels and chasing over the top balls Costa remains a limited footballer, tailor-made for anti-football teams like Chelsea and Atletico.

Once this is done needs to REALLY stop taking DEM drugs and tell Casillas to GTFO and retire and make De Gea his #1.

These are the most concerning issues for me. If replaces Silva with a more direct player (someone like Pedro but not the chit version, I'm dreading to say it but even Callejon would do) and realizes that my grandmother can deadlift more than Alba, Spain would be golden.



That's more or less what I would do.

 

[CuleLife4Life]

First of all I would question why Iniesta is playing LM/LW. To accomodate the Busquets-Alonso double pivot while also keeping Xavi in the center I totally understand. That's good reason to move Iniesta wide. To accomodate Cesc and Koke I don't. Both Koke and Cesc play for the top 2 anti possession clubs in the world. In Koke's case not even in central midfield. As a result they don't move the ball fast enough and generally can't dictate play properly. They play alibi passes for the sake of passing. Iniesta's and Koke's positions must be reversed. Koke is playing wide for Atletico anyway. He is comfortable there and his energy, crosses and pressing from the front + being closer to Costa is much more useful than playing deep alongside Busquets.

Cesc needs to see the bench and make way for the traitor Alcuntara. In terms of ball circulation and midfield play this already fixes a lot. Busquets-'Cuntara-Iniesta >>>>> Busquets-Koke-Cesc.

Once this is done Costa needs to see the bench and make way for Paco. I don't know what is smoking lately. Building a team to Costa's strengths? This isn't van Basten, fss. His technique is shat and except running the channels and chasing over the top balls Costa remains a limited footballer, tailor-made for anti-football teams like Chelsea and Atletico.

Once this is done needs to REALLY stop taking DEM drugs and tell Casillas to GTFO and retire and make De Gea his #1.

These are the most concerning issues for me. If replaces Silva with a more direct player (someone like Pedro but not the chit version, I'm dreading to say it but even Callejon would do) and realizes that my grandmother can deadlift more than Alba, Spain would be golden.



That's more or less what I would do.

Great analysis. refusal to see whats right in front of him is shocking. And I'm no Callejon fan but he has been playing well in Napoli and the guy doesn't even get a blink. I don't get it smh.

 

[Cule4life]

Why the idiot still has a job is beyond me. He should be booted out and his buddy Casillas can give him company