Euro 2020 (2021)

Jadentheman

Jadentheman

Active member
BBZ8800 said:
Yes.
Also, I would add a factor of consistency.

For example, if one system/style is consistently good, I would expect it to win trophies or reach semis/finals each 10-15 years, with different generation of players.
Germany, Italy, Brazil have been dominating for 100 years in a row consistently, more or less.

On the other hand, if Spain was meh for 80 years, then good for 4 years and then meh in the next 10 years, what is more likely?
1) Spanish football is historically average except with Xavi-Iniesta
2) or their football is awesome and they just have meh players currently?

Europe wise, I would historically rate NT teams this way:
1) Germany and Italy
2) France, due to emerging only since 80s and 1998 compared to Italy and Germany who are on top since 1950
3) Netherlands = eternal losers, no big team in the world has so many defeats in finals and semis as them. But at least, they are reaching semis and finals consistently since 70s
4) England = almost never reach semis
Spain = GOAT from 2008-2012, meh in other 100 years
Portugal = ok since 2004 and Cr7, meh in the 20th century
5) everyone else

One interesting and disturbing fact (but it can explain a lot about Barca in a CL) is that our football is built based on Spanish and Dutch football.
Spain are technically good but physically weak, too friendly, not to combative and not aggressive.
Dutch are also technically good but extremely suspect mental strength wise (never winning trophies, always losing in finals, always crumbling under pressure especially on penalty kicks during matches and in penalty shootout).

One have to wonder: how many CLs we would have won without Messi, Xavi, Iniesta?
And how will our future look like without Messi, and if we'll rely on Pedri-Puig paired with mentally fragile Dutch players?
Basing on stats and history: not good.
Click to expand...

Spanish football isn?t even special. It?s just a more neurotic style of Dutch football. And the Netherlands while entertaining don?t really win trophies. And if you really look into it the Netherlands style is basically Brazil?s style without the showboating flair. So Spanish style is the totally sanitized version of Brazilian gold age football.
 
malvolio

malvolio

Senior Member
Ze Germans always find a way to do good or win. Italy/Spain do good/win when they're stacked. Netherlands are losers even with stacked teams. France/Portugal are the new kids on the block and the countries that currently produce the best talents in Europe. The rest don't matter.
 
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Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Who would've thought Italy would play the least Italian way. Will be interesting if they'll go for the same approach against the biggest teams.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
vegitot said:
Lmao do you really rate Spain on the same level as England or Portugal, and below Netherland??? They win most Euro and a World Cup. Portugal have done well in Euro since 2000 but they are still poor in World Cup. Netherland never win World Cup, 1 Euro. England are just overhyped.

Italy after 2006 World Cup weren't consistent and failed to get past World Cup group stage twice in a row, even failed to qualify for World Cup 2018.
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Netherlands:
Wc finals: 1974, 1978, 2010
Semis: 1998, 2014

Uefa winners: 1988
Semis: 1976, 1992, 2000, 2004

In the last 50 years, they have 4 finals and 10 semis on Wcs and Euros.

Spain:
Wc win: 2010
Semis: 1950

Euros:
Win: 1964, 2008, 2012
Finals: 1984

4 wins, 5 finals, 6 semis.

On the other hand, Germany:
Wc wins: 1954, 1974, 1990, 2014
Wc finals: 1966, 1982, 1986, 2002
Wc semis: 1934, 1970, 2006, 2010
Euro wins: 1972, 1980, 1996
Euro finals: 1976, 1992, 2008
Euro semis: 1988, 2012, 2016

7 wins, 14 finals, 21 semis

So:
21 semis Germany
10 semis Netherlands
6 semis Spain

In terms of consistency of Spanish football over the last 70-100 years, are they closer to a tier of Germany and Italy or Netherlands/Portugal?

When you remove Xavi-Iniesta generation, Spain has 3 semis in the last 100 years of World cups and Euros.
That doesn't sound like successful or consistent NT team.
Imo, Spanish domination is just a modern myth/revisionism of history.
When Barca was winning during Pep, we had to read false shit like: La Masia is better than all academies in the world.
Or: Barca is different. We don't buy superstars, we create superstars from our academy.
Lol. 2021 says hi.
The same is with a Spanish NT team. Due to a recency bias, a lot of fans started to believe that Spain is the force and that they were always the force.

But now, 10 years later and when you check stats from the last century, 2008-2012 seems more like a fluke/golden generation than like a consistent pattern.

And if we take into the account that football is evolving towards more pace, strength, height, stamina and muscles and how Spanish people are usually overly nice and humble guys who aren't dirty or combative, one has to wonder how their short, light, nice guys, slowish technical players will cope in the future in a high pressure fast & furious & physical football.
 
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FinBarcelonafan

FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
BBZ8800 said:
Netherlands:
Wc finals: 1974, 1978, 2010
Semis: 1998, 2014

Uefa winners: 1988
Semis: 1976, 1992, 2000, 2004

In the last 50 years, they have 4 finals and 10 semis on Wcs and Euros.

Spain:
Wc win: 2010
Semis: 1950

Euros:
Win: 1964, 2008, 2012
Finals: 1984

4 wins, 5 finals, 6 semis.

On the other hand, Germany:
Wc wins: 1954, 1974, 1990, 2014
Wc finals: 1966, 1982, 1986, 2002
Wc semis: 1934, 1970, 2006, 2010
Euro wins: 1972, 1980, 1996
Euro finals: 1976, 1992, 2008
Euro semis: 1988, 2012, 2016

7 wins, 14 finals, 21 semis

So:
21 semis Germany
10 semis Netherlands
6 semis Spain

In terms of consistency of Spanish football over the last 70-100 years, are they closer to a tier of Germany and Italy or Netherlands/Portugal?

When you remove Xavi-Iniesta generation, Spain has 3 semis in the last 100 years of World cups and Euros.
That doesn't sound like successful or consistent NT team.
Imo, Spanish domination is just a modern myth/revisionism of history.
When Barca was winning during Pep, we had to read false shit like: La Masia is better than all academies in the world.
Or: Barca is different. We don't buy superstars, we create superstars from our academy.
Lol. 2021 says hi.
The same is with a Spanish NT team. Due to a recency bias, a lot of fans started to believe that Spain is the force and that they were always the force.

But now, 10 years later and when you check stats from the last century, 2008-2012 seems more like a fluke/golden generation than like a consistent pattern.

And if we take into the account that football is evolving towards more pace, strength, height, stamina and muscles and how Spanish people are usually overly nice and humble guys who aren't dirty or combative, one has to wonder how their short, light, nice guys, slowish technical players will cope in the future in a high pressure fast & furious & physical football.
Click to expand...

Of course, comparing like this is a bit meaningless because I am sure the teams have changed the way they played. Just comparing 100 years of history and assuming they played exactly the same style is a bit foolish. Although, some mentalities might be the same during the course of even 100 years.

Otherwise good post and an interesting read. Surprised to see Germany dominate that massively!
 
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