FC Barcelona B (Barça Atlètic)

[jklz]

Lost again, 1-0 to Numancia. Line-up: Masip, Bagnack, S. Gómez, Ilie, Planas, Samper, Espinosa, Edu Bedia, Joan Román, Denis Suarez, Dongou.

 

[FCBarca]

4 wins out of 12 matches, just above the drop zone (RM at the bottom, btw, with 1 win)...11 goals scored, 16 conceded

2011-2012 season, 16 wins out of 42 matches....2012-2013 season, 15 wins out of 42 matches...He's on pace to do even worse this season yet inexplicably he's been renewed...Add to it the fact that we've seen no significant addition to the 1st team squad since he's been at the helm tells you everything you need to know about how the foundation of this club is being eroded

 

[The Observer]

Their struggles are understandable. Since Luis Enrique, the B has lost Thiago, Montoya, Bartra, Cuenca, Tello, Sergi Roberto, dos Santos, Deulofeu, Rafinha, Luis Alberto, Nolito, Muniesa, Fontas, Soriano, Romeu and some more talents. Can't reshuffle an entire team with players from lower divisions every season and expect them not to struggle. Real Madrid's Castilla being the prime example who struggle even more after losing key players like Morata and Jese.

 

[FCBarca]

RM doesn't have a playing philosophy, La Masia does...All the youth level teams do well in their respective age groups but only the B team fails...It's not merely down to losing talent, they are a conveyor belt of talent...Plus, let's face it, Barcelona B have bought or brought in talent quite a bit under Eusebio as well - Roman, Suarez, Nieto, Femenia, Araujo, Lomban, Ié, Cá, Rodri, Alberto, Campins, Gafarot, Ortola and Bañuz

 

[The Observer]

Juvenile level is a completely different ball game. Literally. 17 or 18 year old players like Samper, Traore, Dongou, Bagnack, Grimaldo don't see themselves suddenly confronted against 28 year old men in the lower divisions. Philosophy or no philosophy. The average age of the Barca B squad is 20.2 and Numancia's last night was 26.2 (and they are one of the younger squads in the Segunda, there are 16 older teams). It's a completely uneven playing field and even more so as this current team hasn't even gelled yet. No idea if Eusebio is the ideal coach, he might not and I'm not an expert but there are more obvious reasons for Barca B's struggles in my eyes. Making 20 year old kids dominate teams that are 8 years older on average and dominate them Barca-style isn't the easiest job on the planet. Even the first team doesn't exactly dominate Barca style anymore. The fans will realize this once Eusebio goes on to coach in the first division in a few years.

 

[FCBarca]

This age gap was a similar issue before Eusebio, can't use that as an excuse...Every youth team in La Masia routinely plays against older competition...Look at Juvenil A playing against older sides in the NextGen/UEFA comp

There are no excuses because on top of the poor results under Eusebio, he is not shaping any talents for the 1st team

 

[The Observer]

There is only 1 single season "before Eusebio" so a fair comparison isn't even possible yet.

NextGen Serien is an U19 tournament. There isn't a 7 or 8 years age gap. Also Barca lost 0-3 to Ajax in the first knockout round the first edition and 0-2 to Chelsea in the first knockout round in the second edition. Not sure why this is an example of Barca's other successful youth teams.

 

[FCBarca]

Barcelona lost 3-0 to Ajax who had first teamers playing against them...And in both cases, Juvenil A sides were playing opponents who were 2-3 years older in most cases

There were 3 seasons before Eusebio, B team has existed before - regardless of their classification with Segunda

 

[The Observer]

I don't follow, sorry. The Barca youth team under Oscar Garcia losing badly against Ajax at home because they used 1 first team player (who was still under 19 though) is an argument against Eusebio doing badly because he is also losing against much much much older teams how?

Ajax played 1 first team player who was still under 19 (Viktor Fischer) which already made a huge difference (scored 2 goals). The B team in the Segunda plays against 11 more experienced "Viktor Fischers" every week who arent under 19 but much much older. Average age in the Segunda is around 27. Barca B is 20.2. So now you do agree with me that the age issue is an issue seeing that you use "2 - 3 years older" as an excuse (which is most likely not even accurate, I don't remember the age gap being that big, we didn't play only 16 year olds)?

Of course Barca B existed before. But obviously you can't compare Barca B's performances in the Segunda with their performances in the third division.

 

[Ronnie10]

Barcelona lost 3-0 to Ajax who had first teamers playing against them...And in both cases, Juvenil A sides were playing opponents who were 2-3 years older in most cases

There were 3 seasons before Eusebio, B team has existed before - regardless of their classification with Segunda

Teams in the Nextgen Series were only 1 year older than our Juvenile A. I'm also surprised that our Juvenile A got spanked in Nextgen series by every decent team.

 

[FCBarca]

Often it was more than a year and even 3.

Eusebio didn't coach in Nextgen...merely illustrates the age argument you used as being a faulty one....just as your argument that he lacked talent

 

[The Observer]

I don't think I've understood what you've illustrated by showing that Barca youth teams not coached by Eusebio got beaten in the NextGen series in the very first knockout round in two consecutive seasons when you initially wanted to show that all the youth teams except Barca B are doing well.

Eusebio lacking talent was not the argument. You got that wrong so I repeat my point. The argument was about losing almost an entire starting XI and having to reshuffle an entire team from back to front with younger and more inexperienced players from lower divisions. I don't question the potential of Samper or Traore or Dongou or Bagnack yet at the moment Sergi Samper in midfield is nowhere near Rafinha's or Sergi Roberto's level from last season, Traore isn't at the level of Deulofeu and absolutely no forward is at Luis Alberto's level who got double figure goals and assist last season. Primarily because Traore, Samper, Dongou and Bagnack are 17 and 18 respectively while Sergi Roberto, Rafinha, dos Santos and Luis Alberto are between 20 and 23. Which is a huge gap at that stage of development. Which brings us back to the age issue. You don't expect a squad which has only 2 players older than 22 to dominate the second division let alone enforce the "Barca style" when even the first team can barely do that anymore.

The reference point for Barca B should be RM Castilla. Only compareable team in the entire division.

 

[FCBarca]

I don't think I've understood what you've illustrated by showing that Barca youth teams not coached by Eusebio got beaten in the NextGen series in the very first knockout round in two consecutive seasons when you initially wanted to show that all the youth teams except Barca B are doing well.

I've pointed out that every youth team at Barcelona routinely plays against competition older than they are and they flourish...Getting knocked out by Ajax and 2 1st teamers in the quarterfinals is hardly a failure, particularly when you consider NextGen is U19 with many already 20 and Juvenil A is mostly 16 & 17 year olds...Juvenil A dominates, even now

Eusebio lacking talent was not the argument. You got that wrong so I repeat my point. The argument was about losing almost an entire starting XI and having to reshuffle an entire team from back to front with younger and more inexperienced players from lower divisions.

Sounds like you've gotten it wrong...How is the lack of talent not the argument yet you circled right back to it?...Eusebio cannot claim lack of talent, particularly when you consider how many signings the B team made under him...An advantage the other youth teams in the cantera do not enjoy...Eusebio has had continuity, money for signings and a conveyor belt of Masia talent yet he can't win more than 34% of his matches - yet extended by Rosell...There are no excuses

I don't question the potential of Samper or Traore or Dongou or Bagnack yet at the moment Sergi Samper in midfield is nowhere near Rafinha's or Sergi Roberto's level from last season, Traore isn't at the level of Deulofeu and absolutely no forward is at Luis Alberto's level who got double figure goals and assist last season. Primarily because Traore, Samper, Dongou and Bagnack are 17 and 18 respectively while Sergi Roberto, Rafinha, dos Santos and Luis Alberto are between 20 and 23. Which is a huge gap at that stage of development. Which brings us back to the age issue. You don't expect a squad which has only 2 players older than 22 to dominate the second division let alone enforce the "Barca style" when even the first team can barely do that anymore.

You only mentioned one midfielder in comparing Samper to Roberto & Rafinha while ignoring Espinosa(21), Ilie(23), Edu(24) and Lobato(24)...Samper is 18, same age Rafinha & Roberto started with the B team and has been moved around from CM to DM, he has no set position although now it seems DM is where he will play...Samper, incidentally, has been given more praise by the club & it's coaches than perhaps any midfielder in the club - he is a jewel of La Masia...Alberto, incidentally, was 19 when he started playing for the B team and yet flourished...Deulofeu, 17 years of age...Grimaldo, 15...Joan Roman, 19...Dongou, 17...Your age argument remains illogical

And in the time Eusebio has been at the helm of the B team, precious few occasions had them even looking like a Barcelona side nevermind their style

The reference point for Barca B should be RM Castilla. Only compareable team in the entire division.

RM's B team is not a reference point and certainly not for Barcelona's B team...Barcelona play one style throughout the club and that successful blueprint has been working for years and in these last 5-6 has been very key in the 1st team's success...RM cannot compare to that

 

[The Observer]

I've pointed out that every youth team at Barcelona routinely plays against competition older than they are and they flourish...

You really haven't though. You pointed to the NextGen series where Barca's team full of 17 - 19 year olds played against other teams full of 17 - 19 year olds and compared it with Barca B which is a squad that is 7 years younger than the average Segunda team. Bottom line is that they weren't even successful. Vinyals won 3 out of 7 games in the NextGen series against other youth teams. And he didn't face Deportivo La Coruna, Villarreal or Elche who are fighting for a Primera spot. He faced Underlecht and Spurs U19.

And by the way. The Juvenile ranks of Barca dominate not because of the greatness of their coaches with Eusebio being the sole exception. Lucho who was so successful with Barca B was a complete failure at Roma and is keeping Celta 3 points above relegation right now. The highlight of his Roma career was to piss off their entire fanbase right from the start when he benched Totti (who remains their best player even 2 years later) for no reason and played Bojan, it didn't pay off and he failed to qualify for the Europa League against Bratislava. Roma spent over € 90 million that summer and Lucho finished in a worse position than Roma did before he arrived, equal on points with Parma. Nothing points to a special coach who was the reason for Barca B's success in 10 / 11.

I won't comment on the rest because I still haven't suggested that Barca B lacks talent so let's leave it at that.

 

[FCBarca]

See, this is perfect example of you not knowing the facts...Check out the Juvenil A squad ages, they are U17, not U19...Most Nextgen sides they faced in the competition had a good dose of 20 year olds but were otherwise ALWAYS older than Juvenil A...Moreover, all the club youth teams play in tourneys where they are often younger than their competition...It's part of the club's philosophy in developing players

Your fixated on the competition in Segunda when all I've ever said is that the age & talent cannot be used as an excuse by Eusebio...His predecessors did better than him, even against Segunda competition, with less money, less transfers & younger players...To boot, those teams also produced 1st team players...You've yet to make one valid point in Eusebio's favor

Then you diverge even further by comparing the coaching resumes of 1st team clubs to that of a youth team coach at Barcelona...At Barcelona, they are weaning talent to prepare for professional football and life...That is what distinguishes a B team coach, they need to be preparing talent for the professional level while maintaining Barcelona's philosophy of play...The B team under Eusebio does not play like a Barcelona side

And yes, you did point out there was a talent drain despite later backtracking...Eusebio had talent at his disposal along with more transfers & money than any of his predecessors...Yet still can't manage to win more than 34% of his matches or produce 1st team players...So not sure what his purpose is at the club apart from being a stooge