Frenkie de Jong

[Givenchy]

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

the problem is, you put Rabiot on a pedestal saying hes 'already made it at the highest level' what has he won to suggest that? ligue 1 with a bankrolled team.

you cant keep 'buying players' in this market, lottery ticket or proven, sooner or later we have to look inwards and give youth a chance again, many other clubs will also have to do the same. Rabiot on a free isn't a bad deal obviously but for what he adds to our midfield, theres no reason to waste wages on him/a spot in the first 11 when we could buy a superior player who looks born to play the Barca way - Frankie. I'm not saying we should abandon buying players but buying for the sake of it isn't the answer imo

it amazes me sometimes that you are a Barca fan, i know you are probably alot older than me and saw us in different eras but to base so much around stats when you know how deceiving they can be (look at Iniesta for example or Ronaldo being compared to Messi..)

also, Rabiot is NOT going to be a sub, he'll be guaranteed 1st team football or else he and his poisonous entourage wouldn't sign a deal with us. this is the same guy who blew his chances to play for his country because he isn't guaranteed to be selected. his entitled attitude for what hes achieved thus far is laughable

 

[Gnidrologist]

That's the thing. We can afford to have mediocre squad players "for free" via la masia. No need to get them from elsewhere. Only exceptional talents should be worthy of such risk. De Jong isn't guaranteed success, but he's worth the risk. Rabiot is not. Especially if will be obliged to play him as starter and in his prefered role to avoid hissy fits. Absolutely no.

 

[gregorrin10]

BBZ how in the hell did you come to this conclusion? the only 'answer' i could think of is probably since EV is our manager and he hates youth and therefore wont play La Masia kids

The thing is, i based this possibility entirely on the fact that EV is gone next summer and we get a new manager, who trusts and likes young (La Masia) players. But he of course turned it around to fit his agenda and support his opinion on hating small, skilled players, so hating La Masia basically, while praising and prefering tall physical players, so his default opinion. Barca really isn't the club for fans like BBZ, with their love for the physical element in the game.

I do agree that Puig and Oriol have a long way to go to reach the level required for playing week in week out in the 1st team, and as far as Puig goes, YES especially in the physical department, so that should fill you with excitement, @BBZ.

 

[BBZ8800]

That's the thing. We can afford to have mediocre squad players "for free" via la masia. No need to get them from elsewhere. Only exceptional talents should be worthy of such risk. De Jong isn't guaranteed success, but he's worth the risk. Rabiot is not. Especially if will be obliged to play him as starter and in his prefered role to avoid hissy fits. Absolutely no.

The problem is, imo, that you are assuming that Alena/Puig can easily reach squad level and be good subs, like Rabiot or some proven player.
But again, it is way more likely that they will end as Samper, Munir, Sandro, Deulofeu, Kaptoum.

When I mentioned Samper, I opened his topic and went way back to a good old days when he was the next big thing.
Try to read a few pages here from September 2014, look at the hype and look what happened with the next Xavi 4-5 years later.
A guy isn't good enough to play for any La liga team at all.
http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/5964-16-Sergi-Samper/page38

Also, I found our beloved partybreaker in that topic even in 2014, hear this:

Imagine after 3-4 years :

--------Neymer-------Suarez---------
----------------Messi----------------
---------Rakitic------Halilovic---------
--------Samper--------Busquets-------
--Alba/Grimaldo------Pique/Ie/Other-----Bartra/Montoya/Patric/Godswill
----------------Ter Stegen--------------

Reserve - Munir,Adama,Dongou,Sandro,Babunski,Rafinha.....

Holy mother of god who needs a transfer !!! Maybe a great CB and that's it !!

8 years later

----------Neymer/Deulofeu--------Munir/adama
-------------------------Lee Seung-----------
Denis Suárez/Adrián Bernabé----------Halilovic
-------------------------Samper--------------
Grimaldo------------------------------Godswill
---------------Tarin-----------Bartra--------
------------------Ter Stegen--------------

A partybreaker:

That will never happen.
From a simple reason because only one out of 4-5 talents turn into something.
Not necessarily a Barca material, but into "something".

Btw, in hindsight, look at those 2 posts and all those hot names from 2014.
He mentioned: Halilovic, Samper, Grimaldo, Ie, Bartra, Montoya, Patric, Godswill, Munir, Adama, Dongou, Sandro, Babunski, Rafinha, Lee, Denis, Adrian Bernabe, Tarin.
All mentioned as either starters or subs.
Out of 18 hot La Masia prospects from back then, NONE of them turned into Barca's level.
Best out of those 18 are probably Rafinha, who is not good enough even to be a squad player anymore, and a funky defender LB Grimaldo.
And Denise Suarez.

My point: are you guys THAT SURE that Alena/Puig/Oriol are way better players than 100s of similar kids who ended the same as these guys from 2014?

Imagine someone saying in 2014: we don't need new midfield signings, we have Samper, Kaptoum, Babunski, Rafinha, Denise.

Btw:
Samper is not playing at all today.
Babunski is playing in Japanese 2nd division.
Kaptoum played 1 match for Betis in the last year.
New Messi Halilovic played 2 matches for Ac Milan this season.
Ie plays for Lille.
Bartra plays for Betis.
Montoya is a squad player for Brighton.
Patric is a squad player for Lazio.
Godswill is a squad player for Hacken in a Swedish 1st division etc

Also, an interesting thing, people said back then that Lucho is bad for not playing Samper.
And if we had someone like Pep, he would have played these youngsters:

I think Lucho won't do this. Pep would have done, but we have Lucho now.

Does this sounds familiar, like EV in 2018?
Yet, Lucho didn't play Samper because he was not good enough, we have learned in hindsight.

So, players who were once hyped as our future starters and subs and players who will lead us to a CL glory, today play in Japanese 2nd division, or our squad players in random Italian, Spanish and English midtable teams.

Time and time again stats are showing that a chance for La Masia player to turn into something is horribly low.
Yet, people are repeating exactly the same scenario every single year.
From 18 potentials from 2014, none turned into Barca's level, roughly.

And now, you would pass on signing Rabiot for free because of Puig.
And you guys hope that 2 or 3 out of Alena/Puig/Oriol are "real deals".
I mean, everything in life is possible, but...

 

[Givenchy]

The thing is, i based this possibility entirely on the fact that EV is gone next summer and we get a new manager, who trusts and likes young (La Masia) players. But he of course turned it around to fit his agenda and support his opinion on hating small, skilled players, so hating La Masia basically, while praising and prefering tall physical players, so his default opinion. Barca really isn't the club for fans like BBZ, with their love for the physical element in the game.

I do agree that Puig and Oriol have a long way to go to reach the level required for playing week in week out in the 1st team, and as far as Puig goes, YES especially in the physical department, so that should fill you with excitement, @BBZ.

BBZ must of loved van Bommel
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

I'd genuinely like to know; what is your ideal midfield for us next season? as in lineup and formation

 

[Andresito]

Lol those quoted formations from 2014 are ridiculous.. Doubt anyone actually believed that was realistic.

 

[khaled_a_d]

Halilovic, Samper, Grimaldo, Ie, Bartra, Montoya, Patric, Godswill, Munir, Adama, Dongou, Sandro, Babunski, Rafinha, Lee, Denis, Adrian Bernabe, Tarin.
All mentioned as either starters or subs.

Those 4 reached the level of being Barca bench players tbf, Rafinha is good bench player who is hindered by injuries, Denis isn't bad bench player, Bartra was 4th CB at some point and Grimaldo looks good enough for back up LB
The thing is, how many young player is content for bench role in the long run? Do people really think Grimaldo would have stayed if Lucho promoted him? He would have been gone by now seeking playing time. Bartra already left and Rafinha wanted to leave in summer
And guess what, when Denis rumored to be staying people wanted him out for the next young thing. And usually those who stays are the cheapest to sell.

 

[Arizona Scott]

BBZ logic is spot on, the likelihood ANY of Alena, Puig or Oriel is Barca level, or Rabiot level, is less than 50/50.

The whole idea of they need major game time to prove themselves is insane. If they were tearing it up in Cup games, loans or Barca B, or taking apart the likes of Rakitic, Countinho, Vidal and Busquets in practice they would darn well be playing. You don't experiment with meaningful matches. Guys like Paco and Denis Suarez and Gomes, who look excellent for other above average teams in top leagues--couldn't cut it at Barca. Youth prospects, are just well, prospects.

 

[Gnidrologist]

If we lack squad players then it's better to bring in cheapish veterans like Vidal or Parejo, not mediocre young player with ego of CR7. That way it's both possible to test who sticks and who don't from la masia and have a proven players to fill the squad if they don't live up to demands. Buying gomezes left and right is silly, although in this case the free transfer is, of course, a factor.

 

[George_Costanza]

BBZ logic is spot on, the likelihood ANY of Alena, Puig or Oriel is Barca level, or Rabiot level, is less than 50/50.

The whole idea of they need major game time to prove themselves is insane. If they were tearing it up in Cup games, loans or Barca B, or taking apart the likes of Rakitic, Countinho, Vidal and Busquets in practice they would darn well be playing. You don't experiment with meaningful matches. Guys like Paco and Denis Suarez and Gomes, who look excellent for other above average teams in top leagues--couldn't cut it at Barca. Youth prospects, are just well, prospects.

Rabiot level? What's that? Am I missing something here or BBZ repetition about Rabiot slowly change the preception of an average player into world class player?

When I read BBZ's saying Rabiot level, I'm assuming his height, nothing more. He could be a good squad player just like Seydou Keita or S. Robero's level at current Barcelona. If you read my earlier posts about Rabiot (in the summer), I said he would be a good addition for Barcelona. However, me thinkg he would take 4-5m salary at best. This Rabiot discussion split the forum into Ubermensch (Nazi version not Nietzsche) vs. Aristotle's megalopsychia.

 

[mc_lovin]

Rabiots movement doesnt look natural. Frenkies does. Thats all I need to know.



(and the fact Rabiot wont be content with being a squad player or DM)

 

[khaled_a_d]

Rabiot level? What's that?

A starter in one of the top 10 teams in Europe.

 

[George_Costanza]

A starter in one of the top 10 teams in Europe.

James Milner is a starter in a better team and in a better league. What's his level if he comes to Barcelona?

 

[Andresito]

James Milner is a starter in a better team and in a better league. What's his level if he comes to Barcelona?

He works very hard but he's only 176 cm so I don't think we should buy him

 

[Gnidrologist]

A starter in one of the top 10 teams in Europe.

A team whose midfield incidentally has been weakest of all their fronts.