Frenkie de Jong

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serghei

Senior Member
Currently Bar?a doesn't have any clear profile. We don't even know if we will keep following our fundamentals or not. thanks to rat face our finances are in pretty bad shape and the most logical thing to do is to at least keep the younger talents

Agreed. This is the logical plan. Get the new board in, get Xavi preferably (since Klopp, Nagelssmann, Pep, names like that are a pipe dream), and start shaping the team. Once the management team is clear, once the idea about what we're trying to build is assumed and understood by everyone, we can see in about 6 months who has what it takes and who needs to be put on the market.

Xavi offers some guarantees imo. Anybody could fail, but with Xavi at least he knows the club and I have the certainty that we will try to play a style that the fans will like and can identify with.
 
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Luftstalag14

Culé de Celestial Empire
Bogus. MD is not reliable with regard to Bayern rumors and even if it was true, knowing how stingy and ruthless and pathetic Bayern can be, they would not pay more than 40m for him.

Keep De Jong, too early to have a verdict.
 

fergus90

Senior Member
I'm honestly very sceptical they are seriously interested. They know we'd command a big fee and so far based of De Jong's performances outside of the Netherlands they'd be unsure if he's worth the risk. Kimmich cost 7 million euros, Goretzka was free, Thiago cost 25 million, Tolliso as 40 million. Bar the Lucas Hernandez transfer this year Bayern never splash that kind of money on one player alone.

I think De Jong and Barca will try to work for at least 2 more seasons after this before both sides cut their losses. Out of all the players Bartomeu was boasting as the future, Frenkie stands the most chance of being part of that but he needs to seriously buck his ideas up and management should not view him as untouchable in the starting XI. Frankly speaking, his performances so far have not warranted that and it also serves to keep motivated to perform better.
 
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FinBarcelonafan

Well-known member
I'm honestly very sceptical they are seriously interested. They know we'd command a big fee and so far based of De Jong's performances they'd be unsure if he's worth the risk. Kimmich cost 7 million euros, Goretzka was free, Thiago cost 25 million, Tolliso as 40 million. Bar the Lucas Hernandez transfer this year Bayern never splash that kind of money on one player alone.

I think De Jong and Barca will try to work for at least 2 more seasons after this before both sides cut their losses.

Sane they spent big money in a way. (One year left)
 

Devils

Senior Member
He wont get sold, remember he just renewed his contract.

Who's gonna pay mega millions for him though lol. He's just a Dutch Daley Blind these days, dawg.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
For me, top players are the players that play well consistently and are decisive when most of the things in a team are working, so a platform has to be there and that platform doesn't depend on what the players do on the field. Until we have a team that is working collectively, I usually give the benefit of the doubt to players when I rate them. Call it leniency, finding excuses, or whatever. I'm the opposite of BBZ, who starts rating every player from zero coins and undervalues the role of the club. You are closer to BBZ (just giving him as an example because he is extreme about this), in that you also apply a lot of pressure on our players in terms of expectations very fast.

So, how do you blame Messi then? I mean by that logic then may be Messi himself is bad because of the system?
How do we rate any player and say he is good?
How do you select the players to keep when you are rebuilding and in bad shape?
I mean you will say Messi is a problem after one bad season (actually less) and think FDJ is top player when he is one season wonder?
Are we going to say every team that is bad, we can't judge their own players?
I mean can't we watch mid-table teams who are at best as good as us right now and see that some players are better than others? That some players look like they are better than that level of the team?

I am sorry, but I don't see any sense in that.
We were awful in 2000-2003, even worse than current team but players like Puyol and Xavi clearly showed their worth during that time.

I don't apply pressure fast on players, football is a quick game with huge turn over. Players usually have a peak for 5 years or so, many players even less.
2 years are huge thing in a player career, and when you don't show me something that proves you are worth it, when you aren't the standout among your teammates. Then you aren't worth beneficial treatment.

And yes, coaches are essential, but if you are a player that needs only the top of the crop to shine then that is a problem, because no team can have this type of coach for long time. That is very rare
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
OK, so we can argue over the semantics of what "top player" means. Personally, I was convinced by what I saw at Ajax and so far at Barcelona to believe that, while he's not a generational talent, he'd be a very good player in a balanced team.

I know it sounds like I'm making excuses for players. But I want to see in the team a framework and a system that are in place no matter who plays. And for years, we've been nothing but an incoherent sum of individual players, with some managers applying short term measures to keep this team from falling apart at some point or another. Going from worse to worse with each passing season.



You say sure, team is misfit and all, and continue. I stop there. That is priority zero. Everything goes from this. The team should be fit, motivated, coherently put together (to want to run, to be able to run, and to know how to run). These are all basic things for any serious competitive team. Then we can talk about individual performances. It's about management in the end. If the management is crap, the team will play like crap probably. The cliche that football belongs to the players is total crap. There's a whole world of football that exists outside of the 90 mins you see each week or twice a week on the telly.

For me, top players are the players that play well consistently and are decisive when most of the things in a team are working, so a platform has to be there and that platform doesn't depend on what the players do on the field. Until we have a team that is working collectively, I usually give the benefit of the doubt to players when I rate them. Call it leniency, finding excuses, or whatever. I'm the opposite of BBZ, who starts rating every player from zero coins and undervalues the role of the club. You are closer to BBZ (just giving him as an example because he is extreme about this), in that you also apply a lot of pressure on our players in terms of expectations very fast.

But not for players that named Messi, Busquest, Pjanic, Pique...???? Why only blame for these players but not De Jong???

If De Jong is outstanding, it will be true. But sadly it isn't, unless you can prove otherwise.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
So, how do you blame Messi then? I mean by that logic then may be Messi himself is bad because of the system?
How do we rate any player and say he is good?
How do you select the players to keep when you are rebuilding and in bad shape?
I mean you will say Messi is a problem after one bad season (actually less) and think FDJ is top player when he is one season wonder?
Are we going to say every team that is bad, we can't judge their own players?
I mean can't we watch mid-table teams who are at best as good as us right now and see that some players are better than others? That some players look like they are better than that level of the team?

I am sorry, but I don't see any sense in that.
We were awful in 2000-2003, even worse than current team but players like Puyol and Xavi clearly showed their worth during that time.

I don't apply pressure fast on players, football is a quick game with huge turn over. Players usually have a peak for 5 years or so, many players even less.
2 years are huge thing in a player career, and when you don't show me something that proves you are worth it, when you aren't the standout among your teammates. Then you aren't worth beneficial treatment.

And yes, coaches are essential, but if you are a player that needs only the top of the crop to shine then that is a problem, because no team can have this type of coach for long time. That is very rare

Thing is very clear, if De Jong is still brilliant but hisnteammates are poor, then serghei is right but sadly De Jong is just same or even worse than his teammates.

Look at Messi when he was 19, Rijkaard lost control and Barca started to decline, yet Messi was outstanding, led Barca attack, ballon dor runner up...

That is real quality.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
Messi messes the platform, something that Frenkie does not do.
That's the difference

De Jong adds nothing to this team now, compared to Messi who still add many. And Rakitic had no problem with Messi even though he did not play as his favourite position.

Also how about Busquest, Pique...??? Are they messing too???
 

Birdy

Senior Member
Also how about Busquest, Pique...??? Are they messing too???

These are just past it and playing them gives the XI some nice holes

But no one messes the system as much as Messi. With Messi in you cannot have a formation, a base structure.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
These are just past it and playing them gives the XI some nice holes

But no one messes the system as much as Messi. With Messi in you cannot have a formation, a base structure.

I mention above, Busquest has no problem with Messi, Rakitic /Iniesta/Xavi/Vidal or even Paulinho had no problem with Messi.

Is De Jong so outstanding but his teammates are poor??? You sure know the answer.
 

vegitot

Senior Member
These are just past it and playing them gives the XI some nice holes

But no one messes the system as much as Messi. With Messi in you cannot have a formation, a base structure.

Also for De Jong, he gifted Sevilla and Getafe goals, ghosted vs Real, Atletico, Juventus and pretty much any decent teams this season.

It is clearly he also has his problems, don't blame it for other players.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Messi messes the platform, something that Frenkie does not do.
That's the difference

So, who decides this?
Who decides what is the platform? and who messes the platform and who is the victim of it?
If we can accept that us as fans can see that, and judge those players based on what we see right now, then we should accept judging all players, under current non-functioning platform.
But saying that this is a non-functioning platform, and attribute this to player X or Y or Z, then say oh I can't judge player A or B because we have no platform is a hypocritical to say at best.

And FDJ is more or less a huge part of this current platform, we got him his NT coach, we got him his former assistant-coach, we used the system that suits him, players like Puig found himself with no position in this formation thanks to that.

He doesn't get benched regardless his performance either (lead the squads in minutes this year)
 
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