Frenkie de Jong

[JamDav1982]

Unbelievable how this argument is being used only when someone wants to defend a player he or she likes. So you are pissed about Messi but on the other hand De Jong is horrible because he doesn't have a well functioned team around him. In contrast, Messi is playing bad because he has declined and has a bad attitude. His displays have nothing to do with our dysfunctional team.



Reality: De Jong, Pjanic and Busi can't create shit so Messi has to drop deep to get the ball.

Excuses get made for Messi all the time in this team as well so can just as easily say both sides are hypocrites if looking at it like that.

It can be true that Messi in way he plays now does not suit FDJ and FDJ is not what Messi needs either. Both can be true.

 

[te amo barca]

Unbelievable how this argument is being used only when someone wants to defend a player he or she likes. So you are pissed about Messi but on the other hand De Jong is horrible because he doesn't have a well functioned team around him. In contrast, Messi is playing bad because he has declined and has a bad attitude. His displays have nothing to do with our dysfunctional team.



Reality: De Jong, Pjanic and Busi can't create shit so Messi has to drop deep to get the ball.

Messi is the most destabilizing player gameplay-wise in the squad. Everything in our play is bent to suit him. We'll improve once he leaves.

 

[vegitot]

Messi is the most destabilizing player gameplay-wise in the squad. Everything in our play is bent to suit him. We'll improve once he leaves.

Same shit every years.

We will improve when Valverde leaves, when Suarez-Vidal-Rakitic leave, when Bartomeu leaves, when Messi leaves.

Put Lenglet plays alongside Van Dijk and he will look quite solid. Any senior players now would look better if they are surrounded by world class teammates and strong team.

It is not like De Jong is outstanding but his teammates arr bad. Nope. He is also bad. Messi is solid against Juventus but his teammates are not. That is the difference.

But since we beat almighty Kiev without Messi so things must be better if Messi leaves. Opps. Messi has played like this for decades, no problem with Xavi/Iniesta/Busquest/Rakitic/Vidal or even Paulinho or Roberto. Top class players will learn and adapt to different styles or different teammates.

Is thing better when all name i mention above leave??? Pretty not.

De Jong now is just bad. Barca overall is bad but dont deby that fact. His quality is real but he fails to display it till now. Stop saying De Jong is bad because of his teammates, start saying samthing about players like Messi, Busquest... Imagine if Busquest had Thiago/Kimmich instead of De Jong or Pique had Van Dijk or even De Ligt

 

[te amo barca]

But since we beat almighty Kiev without Messi so things must be better if Messi leaves. Opps. Messi has played like this for decades, no problem with Xavi/Iniesta/Busquest/Rakitic/Vidal or even Paulinho or Roberto. Top class players will learn and adapt to different styles or different teammates.

Is thing better when all name i mention above leave??? Pretty not.

De Jong now is just bad. Barca overall is bad but dont deby that fact. His quality is real but he fails to display it till now. Stop saying De Jong is bad because of his teammates, start saying samthing about players like Messi, Busquest... Imagine if Busquest had Thiago/Kimmich instead of De Jong or Pique had Van Dijk or even De Ligt

I agree that De Jong has been underwhelming and you would not be arguing with me if you read my posts on him before. Regarding Messi, he's old and declining fast. He's always used to play this way but now his precision and physical attributes are off to the point he is the worst finisher in Europe statistically. I have never said that we would improve without Messi before 2019 because I understood how much he added despite his low workrate and so on.

 

[vegitot]

I agree that De Jong has been underwhelming and you would not be arguing with me if you read my posts on him before. Regarding Messi, he's old and declining fast. He's always used to play this way but now his precision and physical attributes are off to the point he is the worst finisher in Europe statistically. I have never said that we would improve without Messi before 2019 because I understood how much he added despite his low workrate and so on.

Maybe Messi has declined or De Jong is not good for Messi like all the name i mention above.
Probably both. I agree that Barca will not rebuild if Messi still stay, for many reasons( all ball to Messi tactic, high expection/pressure...)

But again, if Messi had player like Thiago/Kimmich behind instead of De Jong, will he better than now??? Maybe.

 

[Devils]

Put him in liverpool or Bayern and see how he will become the best midfield player in the world

He wouldn't event be the best midfield player on either one those teams lol.

Kimmich and Thiago are just wayyyyyy better players and are far more talented than Frenkie. Forget those guys, a 35 year old Modric in an absolute garbage Real Madrid side is still twice the player Frenkie is.

Frenkie isn't close to being one of the best midfielders in the world. Currently it wouldn't be hard to compile a list of 20 midfielders better than him at the moment.

 

[Raketa10]

Same shit every years.

We will improve when Valverde leaves, when Suarez-Vidal-Rakitic leave, when Bartomeu leaves, when Messi leaves.

Put Lenglet plays alongside Van Dijk and he will look quite solid. Any senior players now would look better if they are surrounded by world class teammates and strong team.

It is not like De Jong is outstanding but his teammates arr bad. Nope. He is also bad. Messi is solid against Juventus but his teammates are not. That is the difference.

But since we beat almighty Kiev without Messi so things must be better if Messi leaves. Opps. Messi has played like this for decades, no problem with Xavi/Iniesta/Busquest/Rakitic/Vidal or even Paulinho or Roberto. Top class players will learn and adapt to different styles or different teammates.

Is thing better when all name i mention above leave??? Pretty not.

De Jong now is just bad. Barca overall is bad but dont deby that fact. His quality is real but he fails to display it till now. Stop saying De Jong is bad because of his teammates, start saying samthing about players like Messi, Busquest... Imagine if Busquest had Thiago/Kimmich instead of De Jong or Pique had Van Dijk or even De Ligt

+100000000

 

[serghei]

Unbelievable how this argument is being used only when someone wants to defend a player he or she likes. So you are pissed about Messi but on the other hand De Jong is horrible because he doesn't have a well functioned team around him. In contrast, Messi is playing bad because he has declined and has a bad attitude. His displays have nothing to do with our dysfunctional team.

I said multiple times before that the main reason why want Messi out is because of his age (and secondly because he does what he wants and can't be managed). So, on what planed is De Jong's case similar to Messi's?

So, 1) Age, 2) Can't be managed properly and needs the whole team build around him.

This is the combination of factors that make Messi a bad option going forwards. De Jong's case presents neither problem.

 

[Rory]

The whole idea of building around a player is a naive one. You do that when you have a messi or ronaldo in their prime. And only when you can be sure they are going to stay during their prime. De jong is a good footballer who isn't showing that most of the time. The building needs to be around an idea and philosophy that takes into account the modern game. Frenkie can be a part of that because he suits the modern era. But the idea he's going to boss things for years to come (something I first believed) was silly and naive. Only if we have a team that pressed like crazy and played like Ajax will we see that level from him again.

 

[vegitot]

I said multiple times before that the main reason why want Messi out is because of his age. So, on what planed is De Jong's case similar to Messi's?

Lets take a look at this match vs Juventus for example:

- Messi is Barca best player on the field and one of the best on the pitch while his teammates (except Puig later) are average to bad. So Messi can still play well even if his team is bad overall. But De Jong can not???

Again, why only De Jong is protected by cases like teammates are bad, bad system. And why only De Jong is talked in a "what if" scenario like what if he play for elite team like Bayern/Liverpool?? Why not apply same scenario for other players like Messi, Busquest, Pique...?

One thing very clearly, De Jong is also mediocre till now, just like his partners. If he is outstanding but his partners let him down, then the "what if" scenario is probably true. Sadly it isn't.

 

[Sterlingfan2000]

Sell him quick , he still has some value

 

[vegitot]

I said multiple times before that the main reason why want Messi out is because of his age (and secondly because he does what he wants and can't be managed). So, on what planed is De Jong's case similar to Messi's?

So, 1) Age, 2) Can't be managed properly and needs the whole team build around him.

This is the combination of factors that make Messi a bad option going forwards. De Jong's case presents neither problem.

De Jong needs a system around him. What is the difference???

Fail as DM, CM. Now as double pivot, mediocre also, probably need more world class midfielders around to help.

Does De Jong build system like Xavi??? No.

 

[khaled_a_d]

In other words, take De Jong, put him in Bayern, Liverpool, even PSG or City, and he'll play much better. You can't really expect superstar performances with nothing to support those demands. The player is heavily dependent on what's around him.

It's time fans get used to the new reality. We fucked up, players won't look very good consistently for a few years and we'll struggle to outplay most opponents except the very poor ones. We'll have the occasional superb game, followed every 4-5 games by a major fuck-up.

It doesn't mean every player is individually shit. Rebuilding will take time.

Wasn't this the same argument with Arthur?

 

[serghei]

Wasn't this the same argument with Arthur?

It was, except De Jong has had validation already with Ajax. So we know he can be great at a high level. With Arthur, it was more like a bet. The signing itself was to take a reasonably priced young player who was highly rated in South America and see if you can develop him into a top player in Europe as well, where the level it's higher. Didn't pan out.

De Jong is different because he cost a lot of money and when we got him, we knew he's very good. Sure, maybe he's not gonna meet the expectations some had of him, or maybe still have, but no way he's not a top player. It's more a matter of building a top side so he can show more. He won't do much if you pair him with slow has beens like Busi and Pjanic.

 

[Joan]

Saying he's a top player for what he showed at Ajax is, to put it mildly, a stretch. Altogether, it's been one good season. Very few games against the elite, say 10. And not all of them good, Bbz was on a pattern. Struggled against different types.

None of this means he's poor or unworthy of a chance, but let's not overrate his Ajax spell. Again.

A player of that caliber (said to be top) has to show much higher level, even in far from ideal circumstances.